Log archive of EquestriaDaily for Sunday, 2016-12-04

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00:03 <Finwe> o3o?

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01:05 <DARK> hello

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01:21 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Plushie Compilation #231 [ http://tinyurl.com/hm6vnhj ]

01:23 *** Joins: Starwatcher (patrick@off)

01:25 * Finwe hats on DARK.

01:25 <DARK> o/

01:26 <Finwe> Good almost morning.

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01:35 <Starwatcher> somepony is here

01:35 * Gladiolus hugs Starwatcher

01:35 <Starwatcher> fear of the dark, fear of the daaark

01:35 <Starwatcher> I have a phobia that someones always there

01:35 * Starwatcher hugs Gladiolus warmly- hello ^^

01:36 *** Quits: Cyan_Spark (scintillae@sparks.only.last.so.long) (Connection closed)

01:36 <Gladiolus> :3

01:36 * Finwe hugs a Starwatcher and a Gladiolus.

01:36 <Divide|Tech> "That's a normal kind of weird."

01:38 *** Joins: Fn (Eogan@Pony-kjritc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)

01:39 <Finwe> Happy dies solis secundus in adventu domini nostri.

01:39 <CleverDerpy> pardon your French, Finwe

01:39 <Finwe> Thank you, Lt.

01:39 <CleverDerpy> anytime, sir~

01:40 * CleverDerpy salutes

01:40 *** Joins: Librarian (Librarian@Pony-rcg.a1p.207.187.IP)

01:40 <Finwe> Only it wasn't French, but Latin.

01:40 *** Joins: Pi (saxopi@Pony-llr.4pn.146.49.IP)

01:40 <CleverDerpy> Librarian, i caught a shiny sandile randomly in the desert

01:40 <Night_Blitz> Second in adventure domainating nostril?

01:41 <CleverDerpy> sounds like a play Derpy would watch~

01:41 *** Quits: FruitNibbler (Eogan@Pony-ij2jvc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

01:42 * Finwe boops Night_Blitz with his perfectly functional VyOS installation.

01:43 <Night_Blitz> but the installer doesn't suppor XHCI

01:43 <Finwe> D:

01:43 <Night_Blitz> you'd need to load it in boot

01:43 <Night_Blitz> manually

01:44 <Night_Blitz> also, PC Engines stuff is a real hackjob

01:44 <Finwe> CleverDerpy: Actually, one would say, "beatum diem solis secundum in adventu domini nostri".

01:44 *** Quits: Librarian (Librarian@Pony-rcg.a1p.207.187.IP) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

01:44 <Finwe> Because whatever you wish to someone needs to be in accusative case. o3o

01:44 <Solis> Eh?

01:44 <Night_Blitz> can't boot off an SD card by default and even with a new enough BIOS, it still needs SDHCI support on the kernel...

01:45 * Solis never thought she'd get pinged due to a latin lesson.

01:45 <Night_Blitz> Finwe: "Roman go home?"

01:45 <Finwe> The people called Romanes they go the house.

01:46 *** Joins: Librarian (Librarian@Pony-rcg.a1p.207.187.IP)

01:46 <Night_Blitz> "Romanes eunt domun"

01:46 <Night_Blitz> *domus

01:47 * Finwe takes Night_Blitz by the ear.

01:47 <Finwe> What's the Latin word for Roman?

01:48 <Night_Blitz> Romani!

01:48 * Finwe tightens his grip.

01:49 <Night_Blitz> it actually is, according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_ite_domum

01:50 <Finwe> No, it isn't!

01:50 <CleverDerpy> Finwe, sir...\

01:50 <Finwe> It's "romanus".

01:51 <CleverDerpy> it's not nice to hold their ear

01:51 <CleverDerpy> please let it go?

01:51 <Finwe> Once they got this right.

01:51 <Night_Blitz> http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk/latinlesson.html

01:51 <Finwe> The plural of "romanus"?

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01:52 <Night_Blitz> -ani

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01:52 <Night_Blitz> :3

01:53 *** Quits: Librarian (Librarian@Pony-rcg.a1p.207.187.IP) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

01:54 <FreezeFrame> "People called Romanes they go the house?"

01:55 <Finwe> Except that "domus" takes locative.

01:56 <FreezeFrame> That was such a great scene.

01:56 <Finwe> Indeed.

01:56 * Finwe hugs a FreezeFrame.

01:56 <Night_Blitz> Quite so

01:56 *** Quits: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-mbeoo9.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com) (Connection closed)

01:57 <FreezeFrame> Honestly, I greatly enjoyed most of Life of Brian. Hell, they managed to make clever, non-derogatory jokes regarding trans people, something which most American comedies still fall at.

01:57 <FreezeFrame> fail

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01:58 *** Changeling_Nightmares is now known as Filly_Nightmares

01:58 *** Quits: Starwatcher (patrick@off) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

01:59 *** Quits: Pi (saxopi@Pony-llr.4pn.146.49.IP) (Connection closed)

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02:06 <Night_Blitz> FreezeFrame: did you just assume the model of my attack helicopter?

02:07 <FreezeFrame> Can we maybe not use transphobic memes?

02:08 <FreezeFrame> It got its start as a copypasta spam for derailing any discussion of gender identity.

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02:15 <KooK> My dog is finally pooped

02:15 <Finwe> Mr Poop.

02:15 <Finwe> I mean, Kook.

02:16 * Finwe doffs his hat.

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02:16 <Finwe> Lt The_Nostalgia-Mare.

02:16 <Finwe> o7

02:16 <The_Nostalgia-Mare> Radm. Finwe (salutes)

02:16 <KooK> Poop?

02:17 <KooK> Finwe, what the heck?

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02:17 <Finwe> KooK: You distracted me. o3o

02:18 <Finwe> À propos dogs, my mother's dog is coming here next week for an international dog show.

02:19 <KooK> Let me guess

02:19 <KooK> ....

02:19 <KooK> ...

02:19 <KooK> Saint Bernard!

02:19 <KooK> :P

02:19 <Finwe> No, an English springer spaniel.

02:20 <KooK> Basically the same thing

02:21 <Finwe> Springer spaniels are about one fifth of the size of a St. Bernhard.

02:21 <Finwe> *Bernard

02:21 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Discussion #914 [ http://tinyurl.com/hv2ebgc ]

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02:25 *** The_Nostalgia-Mare is now known as Nossy|Overwatch

02:27 <KooK> You mean Springer Spaniels are about 5 times the size of a Saint Bernard

02:28 *** FreezeFrame is now known as WorkFrame

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02:32 <Divide|Tech> I am so very done.

02:32 *** Joins: eXAKR (eXAKR@Pony-pmr.gqv.75.138.IP)

02:32 * Divide|Tech pops and deflates.

02:32 <Divide|Tech> So done.  Done for good.

02:32 * Finwe fills Divide|Tech with helium.

02:32 <Divide|Tech> NOPE I'm done.

02:33 <Finwe> What has leeched your life force?

02:33 *** Quits: eXAKR (eXAKR@Pony-pmr.gqv.75.138.IP) (Connection closed)

02:33 <DerpyFIM4> When IRC has been open for *two days*

02:33 * Filly_Nightmares chews on Finwe and wears him as a hat

02:33 <Filly_Nightmares> DerpyFIM4, my IRC is usually up for a couple of months.

02:34 *** Joins: Librarian (Librarian@Pony-rcg.a1p.207.187.IP)

02:34 <Divide|Tech> Sorry, but it seems that I've been murdered by a NOPE.

02:34 *** Quits: Librarian (Librarian@Pony-rcg.a1p.207.187.IP) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

02:36 <Finwe> What exactly is a NOPE, except a negative answer.

02:37 <Schism> it's ... kind of antimeme.

02:37 <Finwe> A Nefarious Opponent of Plasma Energy?

02:38 <Schism> You try to bring about a Derpy?  NOPE.  You go about playing with Batman memes?  NOPE.  And so on.

02:39 <Finwe> Ponies? https://www.gog.com/game/pony_island

02:40 <Filly_Nightmares> Yis

02:41 *** Joins: eXAKR (eXAKR@Pony-pmr.gqv.75.138.IP)

02:42 <DerpyFIM4> Hehe.

02:43 <DerpyFIM4> I registered #linuxmint-help on Canternet and banned everyone.

02:43 <Finwe> "- Be forced to play along with The Devil's demented game of ponies "

02:44 <Finwe> Game of Pones foreseen by His Infernal Majesty as early as in 1992. o3o

02:44 <Finwe> Truly diabolical.

02:46 <Finwe> Even bat ponies were there: https://images-4.gog.com/0ad7257a0b25773ec6d9842ecaeb0b35590c2fdcd1d3c3f5e489e3b08756cafc.jpg

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02:50 * Finwe boops Schism with Dungeon Keeper.

02:50 <Finwe> A bargain at €2.29. o3o

02:51 <Finwe> Or didst thou have it already?

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03:01 *** Joins: Midnight (jlmujdodmlb@Pony-tjg1pe.fios.verizon.net)

03:03 <Midnight> hello

03:03 <Finwe> Hello.

03:03 * Filly_Nightmares chews on Midnight

03:04 * Midnight stops Filly_Nightmares chewing

03:04 <Finwe> It's five hours past Midnight here already.

03:04 <Finwe> o3o

03:04 <Midnight> lol

03:05 <Filly_Nightmares> It's still 1900 here...

03:05 <Filly_Nightmares> Yis

03:05 <Midnight> its been ages since ive been here

03:05 <Midnight> anything new and interesting going on lately?

03:06 *** Quits: Coco_Nut (Coco_Nut@Pony-vrc.tk3.255.85.IP) (Quit: Leaving)

03:06 <Filly_Nightmares> Floofily

03:06 *** Quits: Fall (FallSilent@silently) (Quit: )

03:09 *** Quits: Gladiolus (Corey@hugbat.is.hugging.you) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

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03:13 <Filly_Nightmares> !link Midnight

03:13 <DerpyBot> https://derpibooru.org/746444

03:15 <Midnight> i kinda cant look at derpibooru right now. unless i get my phone but its in the other room and im lazy XD

03:16 <Midnight> sorry :P

03:18 *** Quits: Midnight (jlmujdodmlb@Pony-tjg1pe.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Watch and listen live at http://pvlive.me)

03:18 *** Joins: Midnight (jlmujdodmlb@Pony-tjg1pe.fios.verizon.net)

03:20 <Filly_Nightmares> .4.

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03:21 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by ExplodingPonyToast: Music: tomato.tuesdays - -243°F (Luna) [Indie Dance] [ http://tinyurl.com/znvtsdp ]

03:22 <Midnight> !ping

03:22 <Midnight> ok so that doesnt work here either

03:24 * Filly_Nightmares noms Midnight and waves at Heartbreak

03:25 * Midnight looks at filly_nightmares "do i taste good?"

03:26 * Filly_Nightmares is wiggle

03:27 *** Quits: Nossy|Overwatch (Nossy@Pony-o51fco.brpm.oqg9.0342.2601.IP) (Quit: I do talk but I nom. o3o)

03:28 * Midnight "how does one become the wiggle"

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03:31 <Midnight> Nostalgia:a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations.

03:32 <Midnight> nos·tal·gia

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03:33 *** Quits: Saerydoth (akai@Pony-lhs471.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving)

03:34 *** Quits: Midnight (jlmujdodmlb@Pony-tjg1pe.fios.verizon.net) (Connection closed)

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03:42 <Midnight> ^

03:42 <Filly_Nightmares> Yis

03:42 <Midnight> what kinda name is that

03:42 <Midnight> like he/she didnt even try

03:42 <Filly_Nightmares> Floof

03:42 <Midnight> no effort

03:44 <Filly_Nightmares> That's not their real nick, I think.

03:45 * Finwe ruffles Filly_Nightmares.

03:45 * Finwe also noms on |^|.

03:45 <Midnight> it is their nick look at the bottom of the name list

03:45 *** Quits: |^| (Rainb@Pony-fcs5bh.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

03:45 *** Joins: Vulpor (pgrocncyein@Pony-plkjtd.67-212-37-net.sccoast.net)

03:46 <Vulpor> Hey everyone

03:46 * Filly_Nightmares giggles and pass at Finwe

03:46 * Finwe hats on Vulpor.

03:46 * Filly_Nightmares paws at Finwe.

03:46 * Vulpor is hatted on

03:47 <Midnight> hello vulpor

03:48 *** Quits: eXAKR (eXAKR@Pony-pmr.gqv.75.138.IP) (Quit: Don't kill, and don't be killed, alright?)

03:49 *** Joins: eXAKR (eXAKR@Pony-pmr.gqv.75.138.IP)

03:49 <Vulpor> Hiya Midnight

03:49 *** Quits: WuBzY (wubzy@wubz.that.is.all) (Connection closed)

03:49 <Vulpor> So I have done it everyone

03:49 *** Joins: WuBzY (wubzy@wubz.that.is.all)

03:49 <Midnight> what have you gone dun and did

03:49 <Vulpor> I have accepted my invitation to the Velvet Room

03:50 <Midnight> good

03:50 <Vulpor> I have signed the contract

03:50 *** Joins: Reia (Reia@TheCowPony)

03:50 <Midnight> glad to here.

03:50 <Vulpor> I have pre ordered Persona 5

03:50 <Midnight> congrats

03:58 <Midnight> !ping

03:58 <Midnight> =ping

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04:01 * Filly_Nightmares snugaboos Papa Gladiolus

04:02 <Gladiolus> .3.

04:02 <Filly_Nightmares> Yis

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04:10 *** Parts: FruitNibbler (Eogan@Pony-kjritc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ("Oh look, mango!")

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04:14 *** Quits: Filly_Nightmares (Surreal_Nig@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

04:15 *** Quits: luckyspirit (luckyspirit@pony.poni.pony) (Client exited)

04:24 *** Quits: DashedRainbows (rhg135@Rainbows.Get.Dashed) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

04:25 <DerpyFIM4> When it's been nothing more than quitting and joining for 20 minutes.

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04:26 <Tirek> Activity is variable.

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04:28 * Midnight eats cabbage'

04:28 * DerpyFIM4 eats twice as much cabbage.

04:41 *** Quits: wobniaR (wobniaR@Monoshy.Hydra.Fighter.64) (Connection closed)

04:41 *** Joins: wobniaR (wobniaR@Pony-2rhf6j.fios.verizon.net)

04:42 * Gladiolus also pets wobniaR

04:42 * Gladiolus licks Midnight

04:42 <Gladiolus> what kind of a pone is you

04:42 <Midnight> im a pegasus

04:45 *** Joins: HyperDash (HyperDash@Pony-pveddk.wa.comcast.net)

04:48 <Gladiolus> coool

04:48 * Gladiolus hugs Midnight

04:48 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-m8lg0k.mi.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

04:48 * Midnight hugs back

04:49 <Midnight> what kind of pone are you gladiolus

04:49 <Gladiolus> I am the hugbat!

04:49 <Gladiolus> www.derpy.me/HugsBat

04:49 <Gladiolus> wut that ain't right

04:49 <Gladiolus> http://67.media.tumblr.com/90bbf6f35f85a33967f149d2c5598890/tumblr_o7o5dge00x1uvsvnjo1_r1_1280.png

04:49 <Gladiolus> there

04:50 <Midnight> i cant go to links unless i get my phone. and its in the other room

04:52 <Gladiolus> aww

04:52 <Gladiolus> Well I'm a batpony that lives to snug.

04:52 <Midnight> awesome! batponies are the best and so are snuggles

04:55 <Gladiolus> :#

04:55 <Gladiolus> :3

04:56 <Midnight> havnt we met before? like a long time ago when i use to get on daily

04:57 <Midnight> daily as in everyday not the room name

04:57 <Gladiolus> WE probably have :3

04:59 <Midnight> i think we have your name sounds familier. im going to try to get on more often

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05:02 * wobniaR baps Gladiolus

05:03 * Gladiolus pouts

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05:10 * Electron keks

05:11 <Finwe> o3o

05:11 <KooK> !link bubble butt

05:11 <DerpyBot> http://derpibooru.org/243771

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05:47 <DerpyFIM4> back

05:54 <Tirek> Welcome back.

05:54 <Tirek> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9911045/mechanicalwargen.mp3

05:54 <Tirek> I'm trying to get used to my new megadrive template.

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06:02 <CleverDerpy> hiya

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06:05 * Electron waves to CleverDerpy in greetings

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06:08 <wobniaR> Greetings!

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06:10 <DerpyFIM4> Greetinz

06:10 <DerpyFIM4> Oh you already left

06:11 *** Joins: wobniaR (wobniaR@Monoshy.Hydra.Fighter.64)

06:11 <wobniaR> Yes i disconnected

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06:21 <DerpyFIM4> @wobniaR Then how did you know I wrote that?

06:22 <wobniaR> [01:11] -cadance.canternet.org/#EquestriaDaily- Replaying up to 5 lines of pre-join history spanning up to 900 seconds

06:22 <DerpyFIM4> Well, the Cadence server is the worst. Maybe it gave you wrong info.

06:23 <wobniaR> The internet doesn't lie, that's unpossible

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06:27 *** Changeling_Nightmares is now known as Filly_Nightmares

06:29 <Electron> "Although this automatic reply is on, I'll probably still respond to you at some point because scientists are trained like that. If it's super important then you can call on +400000000000 (please don't though) or tweet me at @NameName. If the velociraptors have escaped again (dammit, Jerry..), then you're on your own."

06:29 <Electron> I love creative autoreplies. :D

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06:34 <Thelema5> The canternet is lying now?

06:35 *** Quits: Cyan_Spark (Cyan_Spark@sparks.only.last.so.long) (Quit: Sparks only last so long)

06:35 <Electron> Huh? Why?

06:37 <Thelema5> Nevermind.  GUYS- check out this amazing place I explored today!

06:37 <Thelema5> !link https://youtu.be/Hce5_yRkvEE

06:37 <DerpyBot> I need to ask Twilight about that one.

06:37 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about Exploring the Abandonded Ruins of the Overlook Hotel | Catskills Hiking | Ulster County, NY

06:40 <Electron> Having a walk is always nice, Thelema5.

06:41 <Thelema5> XD

06:41 <Thelema5> Expecially when it leads to a century old abandoned hotel

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06:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ConfusionRift

06:43 <ConfusionRift> Hello everypony.

06:43 <Thelema5> Hiya!

06:44 * Filly_Nightmares wears ConfusionRift as a hat and skrees!

06:45 * ConfusionRift is now a hat.

06:45 <ConfusionRift> Hey there.

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06:45 * Filly_Nightmares rumble purrs

06:47 * Electron waves to ConfusionRift in greetings

06:48 * ConfusionRift waves at Electron.

06:50 * Filly_Nightmares hats on Electron

06:50 * Electron wears Filly_Nightmares as a het in front of Thelema5

06:50 * Electron *hat

06:51 * Filly_Nightmares wigglewaggles

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07:05 * Electron offers a pancake with a quark to ConfusionRift

07:05 * ConfusionRift noms it. :P

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07:32 <Golden> Good night everyone

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08:40 <DerpyFIM4> Not back

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09:57 * Sour_Sweet sneaks towards Electron to apply a silence breaking boop.

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09:59 <Finwe> Lt CleverDerpy! o7

09:59 <Finwe> Mr Double.

09:59 * Finwe doffs his hat.

09:59 <CleverDerpy> Radm Finwe

09:59 * CleverDerpy salutes

09:59 <Double> Mornin

09:59 * Double hugs CleverDerpy and Finwe

10:00 <Finwe> It's noon now.

10:00 * CleverDerpy purrs\

10:00 <Finwe> At least here in GMT+2 zone.

10:03 *** Quits: Double (Double@Pony-40o5q9.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) (Quit: Bye)

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10:14 * ConfusionRift rolls.

10:15 <Finwe> Lt Cdr ConfusionRift!

10:15 <Finwe> o7

10:15 <ConfusionRift> RAdm. Finwe. (salutes)

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10:37 <CleverDerpy> hey Finwe

10:38 <CleverDerpy> can I get a higher rank, or is that possible?

10:38 <CleverDerpy> was just curious if the navy needed a new commander due to absentees

10:38 <CleverDerpy> I would nomnomnominate you~

10:39 <Double> X3

10:39 <Double> I would nomnomnominate you

10:40 *** Divide|Tech is now known as Divide

10:40 <Schism> Mooorning.

10:41 <Schism> Or afternoonish.

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10:41 <Schism> rAdm. Finwe.  *doffs his pickled ginger*

10:42 <Finwe> Mr Schism.

10:42 * Finwe doffs his woollen cap.

10:42 <Finwe> -8°C outside.

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10:43 <Schism> It's 1 right now - and the weather's hovering around that point, will be all week.  Which is to be expected in December.  Of course, the wind is what really makes the difference.

10:45 <Schism> Zero celsius is practically t-shirt weather, but add in wind chill and it becomes murderous.

10:45 <Finwe> Schism: No, add rain.

10:45 <Schism> That, too.

10:46 <Finwe> We had 15 cm of snow in beginning of November, now we have none.

10:46 <Finwe> There snowy period was followed by 2 weeks of rain and +1°C .

10:47 <Schism> Well, that certainly clears off the white stuff.  Which isn't a bad thing, exactly - it also prevents the sidewalks from icing over.

10:49 <Schism> Snrk.  "I can tell when the clock radio is due to come on because about ten minutes before that Fig pushes his dish into the bedroom, followed by all of the cat food tins he can reach." -James Nicoll

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10:54 <Schism> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cyje4PDXEAA75FI.jpg

10:54 <Finwe> Hmm, what should one have for lunch on the second Sunday of the Advent?

10:56 <Schism> Cookies are of course traditional, but I suggest a good ham and swiss sandwich.

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11:15 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #695 [ http://tinyurl.com/znl95yq ]

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11:24 * Cepheid flops in.

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11:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +ao Fall Fall

11:24 * ConfusionRift flops back.

11:27 * Schism boops the Cepheid with this. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cyje4PDXEAA75FI.jpg

11:27 <Cepheid> Heh.

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11:34 <Cepheid> Mmm.  I need to learn to fight against my anti-depressant.

11:35 <Fn> Fight depression with depression!

11:35 <Fn> Wait...

11:36 <Schism> I suggest chocolate, but then, food is what I usually default to.

11:36 <Cepheid> The issue isn't so much the depression.

11:37 <Cepheid> Research I've done lately indicates that the chemical changes induced by the medication can cause a person to become apathetic and listless in response and regards to many things.

11:39 <Fall> Right. I'm giving in. I'm gonna look at all the new Pokemon.

11:41 <Cepheid> I take an SNRI, a serotonin and norepineprhine reuptake inhibitor.  Serotonin's responsible for the depression, mostly.  It's the norepinephrine that's more key.  Apparently it's partly responsible for the fight-or-flight behaviour.

11:42 <Cepheid> AKA:  Inhibiting it would cause a person to no longer feel a reaction to situations, especially stressful ones.

11:43 <Schism> Seratonin reuptake inhibitors are also very dangerous in a whole host of other ways.  Missing a dose can lead to one's brain going very wrong indeed.

11:44 <Cepheid> I know.

11:44 <Cepheid> Trust me, *I KNOW*

11:45 <Cepheid> And "lead one's brain to going very wrong indeed" is an understatement.

11:46 <Schism> Oh, I know as well.  Used to be on that sort of thing myself.

11:46 <Cepheid> The brain starts freaking out of serotonin levels change considerably.  Unfortunately, many SSRIs and SNRIs have an extremely short half-life in the body.

11:46 <Cepheid> Like, less than a day at worst, a day or two at best.

11:47 <Cepheid> Well, serotonin reuptake levels, rather.

11:47 <Cepheid> Point is, it feels like a withdrawal, and you become dependent on the medication, whether you need it anymore or not.

11:47 <Schism> Which is kind of important if you think about it, because you definitely don't want a drug persisting for so long in the eventuality of an emergency, but even so... yeah.

11:51 <Cepheid> Truth told, I am likely in less need of an SSRI and more of a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor by itself.

11:51 <Schism> Pffff.  From a professor of psychology in Alberta: "I got into this field by being lazy."

11:52 *** Quits: Solis (BookOfKenzi@Fire.Is.Love.Fire.Is.Life) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

11:52 <Cepheid> More and more, I've realized my "episodes" have been a result of something pushing me over a certain point, and I usually solve my episodes by wandering off to find a quiet place to hyperventilate until I calm down.

11:52 <Cepheid> In other words, I take the flight path over fighting.

11:53 <Cepheid> And when I used to vent, I'd punch walls.  That'd... be the fighting aspect showing itself.

11:53 *** Quits: WuBzY (wubzy@wubz.that.is.all) (Connection closed)

11:53 <Schism> I think a lot of us do that - run hot and cold, that is, in a situation like that.

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11:54 <Cepheid> Truth told, I regularly, and consistently, want to get into a fight with someone.

11:54 <Cepheid> I'm always suppressing it though.  Can't imagine what that's doing to me.

11:54 <Schism> Have you considered looking into a gym?  Having something to punch, kick, et cetera might be of the good.

11:55 <Cepheid> I'd probably be better off joining a boxing team, to be honest.

11:56 <Cepheid> Or club, rather.

11:56 <Schism> Mmn, maybe... I mean, you don't want to wind up taking that aggression out on someone else, right?

11:57 <Cepheid> ...  My brutal honesty tells me to say that I do.

11:57 <Schism> Well, okay.  Perhaps I should say, someone who doesn't deserve it.

11:58 <Cepheid> Mmm.  I'd rather hurt someone in self-defense over attacking someone randomly.

11:58 <Schism> Also, Cepheid, here.  A nice little fic which I think is relevant.  http://www.fimfiction.net/story/341417/a-good-trot-spoiled

11:59 <Cepheid> You know I'm not big on reading fanfics.

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12:00 <Schism> Fair enough, I just think this one has a really good punchline.  But moving on... well.  I suppose boxing might be an option.  Or martial arts, though half the point of a martial art is training you in how not to hurt someone.

12:00 <Cepheid> In any case, the reason I bring up the need to fight against my anti-depressant is because I have all these projects, but no desire to work on any of them.

12:01 <Bastion_2100> grüß gott

12:03 <Tirek> Greetings.

12:03 <Schism> Ah.  Then yes - definitely a case where fighting against that particular brain bug is best...

12:03 <Schism> Shorah, Tirek.

12:03 <Tirek> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9911045/mechanicalwargen.mp3

12:03 <Tirek> I set up a new template for my DAW which makes doing really intricate operator manipulations easier in VOPM.

12:04 <Tirek> Before, it required manual drawing of those things, which just made it a hassle to track them all.

12:05 * Schism parses that for a few seconds. "Oh, the Yamaha synthesizer."

12:05 <Tirek> Yep.

12:05 <Schism> Very nice indeed.

12:06 <Tirek> Manipulating the operators on the fly lets me do some really twangy and silly things with the sound channel.

12:06 <ConfusionRift> Oh, love this.

12:06 <Tirek> And I could use that to make more dynamic sounding songs. As long as I don't go overboard.

12:06 <Schism> Of course, there is some fun to going overboard.

12:07 <Tirek> Except when it results in heavily amplified ear-horror.

12:08 <Schism> Very true, very true.  Darnit, now I want to tool around with FL for a few.

12:08 <Schism> But I am le tired, and it's too early in the morning for that.

12:08 <Tirek> I'm setting up for thasauce's one hour compos.

12:08 <Tirek> I want to try my hand at speed-composing again in a competition.

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12:09 <Tirek> Given the last time I tried that was over five years ago now, I've gotten a lot better.

12:09 <Schism> Hmm, I do have this YPG I should give a good dusting off.  Tinkling with the ivories might be of some good.

12:10 <Tirek> Oh, I should mention that this isn't my song, this one came from the bowels of my MIDI collection.

12:10 <Tirek> Which is something like nearly 300,000 files.

12:11 <Tirek> It just seemed like the best one to use for testing my new set-up.

12:11 <Schism> That's a frightful collection of music.  And yet it can all fit on a single CD...

12:11 <Tirek> I dunno about that.

12:12 * Cepheid holds up a blu-ray disc.

12:12 <Cepheid> It can. :P

12:12 <Schism> That doesn't quite qualify.  :P  I was thinking 'under a gig' when zipped up.

12:12 <Tirek> No, I was way off. It's 51,000, and its at a staggering 1.5 gigs.

12:12 <Schism> Ah, so definitely not a CD, but absolutely a regular DVD.

12:13 <Tirek> Yep.

12:13 <Tirek> It's probably less unique songs, though.

12:13 <Tirek> One of these centuries, I need to go through all these songs and organize them.

12:13 <Tirek> And purge the doubles.

12:14 * Cepheid researches a new text editor for development of code. Eclipse is getting too bloated for his liking. Wants something portable, workable across platforms. Needs to be able to invoke proper commands and such to do a build/rebuild/cmake cache rebuild/run.

12:14 <Tirek> http://tindeck.com/listen/sjor

12:15 <Tirek> Here's a piece from when I was doing compo before.

12:15 <Tirek> You can't really compare it to this one: http://tindeck.com/listen/illk

12:16 <Tirek> Yes, the watermelon carving was necessary.

12:17 <ConfusionRift> Hmm, I do remember that last one.

12:17 <Tirek> I never showed sjor. It was bad. I knew it back then, too.

12:18 <Tirek> http://compo.thasauce.net/compos/view/OHC

12:18 <Tirek> This is what I'll be participating in. I think, anyway.

12:18 <Tirek> We'll have to see what the theme is.

12:18 <Tirek> And I won't know until the compo starts.

12:19 <Schism> Hmmm.  I might have to take a look.  And update FL and all that jazz.

12:20 <Tirek> Sweet. It'd be nice to compete with someone I know.

12:20 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Episode Rewatch - Winter Wrap Up  [ http://tinyurl.com/jmxmdsv ]

12:20 <Schism> No promises, though.  I tend to work Thursday evenings, at least until 9:30 EST.

12:20 <Tirek> Ah.

12:20 <Cepheid> I am really craving a coffee.

12:20 <Tirek> Yeah, that'd interfere.

12:21 * Schism offers Cepheid a mug of chamomile tea.

12:21 <Cepheid> I'm unable to wake up properly these days because I keep taking melatonin the night before to help me keep a daytime awakeness schedule.

12:21 <ConfusionRift> Man, some of those compositions are very diverse. No idea how they came up with it with said theme.

12:22 <Tirek> Yeah.

12:22 <Schism> Tirek: Yeah, pity too.  It sounds like a lot of fun.  Cepheid: I find that in lieu of coffee, ice water helps one to wake up.

12:22 <Tirek> I participated in JHCompo when it was a thing.

12:22 <Cepheid> Yeah, I guess I could fill this water bottle up with some ice and water.

12:22 * Cepheid goes to do that.

12:22 <Tirek> I recall that a lot of people accused me of cheating because I usually finished a half an hour before anyone else.

12:23 <Cepheid> The other tempting thing about a coffee though is simply that I've been off caffiene for over two weeks now.  If I were to drink a coffee right now, my brain would jolt alert and start freaking out in a good way.

12:23 <Tirek> But I blame that mostly on my inexperience, since I had no idea what I was doing at the time. (I still don't, but less so. )

12:23 <Cepheid> That jolt that causes people to keep wanting to drink coffee in the first place.

12:23 <Schism> Cepheid: Funny, that's why I drink ice water.  That singular jolt that happens when you take a few good swigs.

12:24 <Tirek> I was way out of my league, then. A lot of people I knew from chip music were participating.

12:24 <Tirek> coda, specifically, is the one I remember most.

12:24 <Cepheid> Schism:  Usually I just get nausea.

12:24 <Cepheid> Anyways...  *Goes to fill that bottle.*

12:24 <Tirek> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9911045/coda_-_bone_rapids__JHCompo_-_Round_070__JHC070__.mp3

12:24 <Schism> That name sounds familiar...

12:25 <Tirek> I did nab two of his entries from when I was there.

12:25 <Schism> I know there's Nanowrimo, but I wonder if there's been a similar attempt at creating a contest for writing.

12:26 <Schism> 24-hour comic day is also a thing.

12:26 <Tirek> WritersWeekly has a 24-hour short story competition.

12:27 <Schism> Huh.  I might need to look that one up.  Sounds like it could be more my style.

12:28 <Tirek> I don't think its actually weekly, though, because cash prizes are involved.

12:28 <Tirek> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9911045/coda_-_Deploying_D.O.G.Z._Squadron__JHCompo_-_Round_073__JHC073__.mp3

12:28 <Schism> Oh... definitely less thrilled about that.  It sounds like a vanity publisher, and I know enough about them to avoid 'em like the plague.

12:28 <Schism> And... they are.  It sounded familiar.

12:29 <Tirek> Ah.

12:29 <ConfusionRift> Oooooh! I recognize that alarm. :P

12:29 <Tirek> I don't.

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12:29 <ConfusionRift> That's from Shinobi 3... I think.

12:29 <Tirek> Ah.

12:30 <Tirek> coda is responsible for this masterpiece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztFPpSfwdP8

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12:31 <ConfusionRift> Tirek: https://youtu.be/prZAjV0pGAc?t=3m12s

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12:31 <Cepheid-Laptop> How nice.

12:31 <Cepheid-Laptop> The power went out for all of five seconds.

12:31 *** Quits: Cepheid (cepheid@tick.tock.tick.tock.goes.the.clock) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Cepheid-Laptop!cepheid@Pony-h7h6jn.cable.rogers.com)))

12:31 *** Cepheid-Laptop is now known as Cepheid

12:31 <Tirek> Ah.

12:32 <ConfusionRift> That was some thick cabling... I mean... how unfortunate. 0_0;

12:32 <Cepheid> ...

12:32 * Cepheid thwaps ConfusionRift.

12:32 <ConfusionRift> Hehehe-ow.

12:32 <Schism> That sort of brownout is always obnoxious.  "Okay, I guess I'll grab my flashlight and" *vrooooom* "Nevermind then.

12:33 <ConfusionRift> And coda's work. Wish I could support it more.

12:33 <ConfusionRift> he does some good work.

12:35 <Cepheid> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69zi-1ct8_g

12:35 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about Rabi-Ribi OST - RFN - I I I [Extended]

12:35 * ConfusionRift pokes Tirek. "You too." :P

12:35 *** Quits: Solis (BookOfKenzi@Fire.Is.Love.Fire.Is.Life) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

12:36 *** Quits: Taoki (MirceaKitsu@Pony-7ul.gjo.113.93.IP) (Quit: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mircea/)

12:37 <Tirek> My work isn't that good.

12:37 <Tirek> Not yet anyway.

12:37 <Tirek> I'm a bit of a realist.

12:37 <Tirek> I WILL be good, as long as I work toward it. Hell, I'm aiming to be the best.

12:38 <Tirek> But right now? I'm a chump.

12:39 * ConfusionRift shrugs. "I still like it." :P

12:39 * ConfusionRift grabs Cepheid's hammer, and bites it like a squeaky toy.

12:39 * Cepheid flails the hammer!

12:40 <Schism> Cepheid: It's about time someone posted an extended version of that song!

12:40 <Schism> Eight months ago.  But still!

12:41 *** Quits: matttheshadowman (mattthesha@the.shadowy.corners) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

12:41 <Cepheid> Heh.

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12:42 *** Fall is now known as FallenSilent

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12:46 <Schism> It occurs to me, Cepheid, that your earlier noted concerns might be the reason you specialize in difficult games.  So you have something to, more or less, punch in the face until it capitulates.

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12:46 <Cepheid> More or less.

12:46 <Schism> I feel much the same, I won't deny.

12:48 <Schism> Splorf.  On golfing attire: "Celestia was trying not to examine a nearby clothes rack too closely.  The mere concept of Discord having gone into pants design was bad enough:  she didn't need to see the label which would provide proof."

12:53 *** Joins: Taoki (MirceaKitsu@Pony-7ul.gjo.113.93.IP)

12:53 * Schism places a plush fairysune on Taoki's head.

12:55 <Bastion_2100> !link ice cream

12:55 <DerpyBot> https://derpibooru.org/838300?scope=scpe2dfb2798372784687db47fa5649bf8107993b170

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13:07 *** WorkFrame is now known as FreezeFrame

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13:24 * Bastion_2100 welcomes the Derp

13:27 * Cepheid throws Schism into the bunny room.

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13:30 <Schism> I need to get back into that...

13:32 * ConfusionRift should get back to his game queue list.

13:32 * ConfusionRift should get back to drawing, and maybe some music.

13:33 * ConfusionRift should go to sleep. Thud.

13:33 <ConfusionRift> See ya laters.

13:33 *** Quits: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-bc75a7.res.rr.com) (Quit: Recharging the batteries. Laters! *shutdown*)

13:33 <Cepheid> I should spend a few days just speed running Rabi-Ribi as fast as I can.

13:35 <Cepheid> ...  O...kay then.

13:35 <Cepheid> My mother just came in and told me she'd rather I not work my last 2 days of work now.  I guess I'm now officially done of work?

13:35 *** FallenSilent is now known as Fall

13:36 <Schism> That's... a reasonable suggestion, based entirely upon a concern for your health.  Thumbs up, Cephy's mom!

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13:40 <Schism> Cepheid: Seriously, you do not get to do that to yourself.  You know absolutely well that the last day of work would probably drive you into a panic attack and a psychotic fit.

13:40 <Schism> And your employers would likely encourage it.

13:40 <Cepheid> Especially as coworkers of mine have been particularly frustrating to deal with as of late.

13:41 <Schism> And add in the holiday season... yeah.  Don't.

13:42 <Schism> And don't start thinking that you owe your employers or coworkers anything, because you really do not.  They've done nothing but help you along the road into a sanitarium.

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13:44 <Cepheid> The last bit of frustration I dealt with was on Thursday.  I was doing rechecks with the store's loss prevention team.  We notice a tag was not done.

13:44 <Schism> Ee...

13:45 <Cepheid> So I go over into the next aisle, and point out that there was a tag that wasn't done in the aisle I was in.  "Yeah, so?"  I sighed and showed signs of annoyance.  "Could you please go do the tag?"  He then gave me *YAY* for asking him to do the tag.  Apparently poiinting out that the tag wasn't done isn't enough to imply that I want him to do the tag.

13:46 <Schism> Those who are unfamiliar with inventory work: Cepheid asked a coworker to do their job.

13:47 <Schism> Cepheid: did anything else happen while he was too distracted to actually do what he was being paid for?

13:47 *** Quits: FedoraMane (Ponies@Nopony.Important) (Connection closed)

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13:48 <Cepheid> Nope.

13:49 <Cepheid> Funny thing is, it happened again later.

13:49 <Cepheid> I spoke to a different co-worker.  Same basic implying that I wanted them to do it.  They immediately knew what I wanted.

13:49 <Schism> This must be some strange variant on the word 'funny' with which I'm unfamiliar.  Please, continue.

13:49 <Cepheid> And then of course, there was the fun that happened even *LATER* that I was blamed for.

13:49 <Schism> Hum.  So they went back and fixed the tag, I guess.  And what happened THEN?

13:50 <Cepheid> See, a co-worker that many of us dislike because she tends to cherry pick and work slowly at that, was working one half of an aisle.  The crew finished the other half, all fine and dandy.  They immediately skipped over the section the person was working on.

13:50 <Cepheid> Later on, they're told that they missed an entire section of the store.  I had already gone to work on that section, myself

13:51 <Cepheid> When everyone realized what happened, they were gettting all mouthy and upset that I didn't say anything.

13:51 <Cepheid> Uh...  Sorry that I didn't tell you to do your damned job?  Last time I opened my mouth and explicitly asked someone to do their job, I got sassed and attitude for it.

13:52 <Cepheid> And it's not like they didn't know that half-aisle was there.

13:52 <Cepheid> I saw all of them look down it.

13:52 <Schism> Yeah, WIS is going to miss you, but it's their own damned faults for not shaping up their workteam.

13:52 <Schism> And I really think you're going to be happier and healthier without being a part of that clusterfumble.

13:52 <Cepheid> Indeed.

13:53 <Cepheid> At one point, I briefly considered the idea of signing up as a supervisor for jobs, etc.  I'd take on more work, and I'd get to lead a bunch of people, but that's it.  Anyone doesn't want to do their job, not much I can do about it.

13:53 <Cepheid> WIS doesn't punish people, from what I can tell.

13:54 <Cepheid> We've got racist jerks on the team, we've got lazy people who don't show up for shifts to the point that there are running gags about it, we've got thieves who've stolen product from clients.

13:54 <Schism> Cepheid, you shouldn't have even considered it.  ... one moment.  I need to throw a few rocks to deal with the birds RIGHT OUTSIDE

13:54 <Cepheid> None of them have been reprimanded outside of a tap on the wrist and "Don't do it again."

13:54 <Schism> Yeah... also, middle management is the most thankless job ever.

13:55 <Cepheid> So I've seen.

13:56 <Schism> ... excuse me, more rocks must have been thrown.  The corvidae outside my window are very, very noisy.

13:56 <Cepheid> You got crows everywhere too, huh?

13:57 <Schism> Yes.  And they're quite talkative.

13:57 <Cepheid> http://imgur.com/gallery/S0924ix

13:58 <Schism> It's the sort of thing that makes you wonder: A. How many gunshots do I have to fire to take care of the flock, and B. Am I going to be recreating an Alfred Hitchcock film soon?

13:58 <Cepheid> Given crows have good memory and can identify faces, B is viable.

14:00 <Schism> It's pretty likely... well, it would be if I had a firearm.  Bereft as I am, neither is a likely result.

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14:03 <Schism> I am of course joking on the 'throw rocks at them' thing.  I understand, they're just birds, and birds tend to chirp and talk and annoy the piss out of us all.

14:04 <Schism> It is, however, tempting to go all Tom Lehrer and throw peanuts coated with cyanide.

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14:16 <Cepheid> Bad idea, Schism.  :P

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14:16 <Cepheid> Dogs or kitties might eat the peanuts.

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14:19 * Cepheid goes to play some God Eater after setting up project basics. I really should pack away a bunch of these source code files into a common project for re-use.

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14:38 <Cepheid> All this gear that needs upgrading..

14:39 * Finwe installs some updates for Cepheid's chair.

14:40 <Cepheid> I need plenty of Anathema items.  Let's see..

14:40 *** Joins: KooK (KooK@Pony-t2bvrf.client.mchsi.com)

14:40 <Finwe> Mr KooK.

14:40 * Finwe doffs his hat.

14:40 <KooK> Finnish

14:41 <Cepheid> 1x Anathema Crown, 2x Anathema Shooter, and 1x King Nephrite.

14:41 <KooK> I need to pick up a snow blower today...

14:41 <Finwe> Is it snowing?

14:43 <KooK> Currently, yes

14:45 <Nuclear> Hello, Cepheid, KooK, Finwe.

14:45 <KooK> Yo

14:46 <Finwe> Mr Nuclear.

14:46 * Finwe doffs his hat.

14:46 *** Quits: Cyan_Spark (Cyan_Spark@sparks.only.last.so.long) (Quit: Sparks only last so long)

14:46 <Nuclear> Hey, Cepheid, since you seem pretty good at graphics programming, I was wondering what you think about the implications of being able to directly program AMD's GCN-based GPUs in ASM.

14:46 <KooK> I woke up this morning, literally thinking 'polytetrafluoroethylene'

14:47 <Nuclear> I really want to bypass any API and abstraction layer constraints and take full advantage of double-precision, floating-point accumulator buffers, auxiliary buffers, Z/depth-buffers (also has been referred to in the past as the W-buffer/T-buffer), stencil buffers, color buffers, et cetera.

14:48 <KooK> Graphics cards let me see computer things

14:50 <Cepheid> I... have never even done such a thing.  I'm not even sure it's POSSIBLE.

14:50 <Nuclear> Since AMD is the only major graphics card manufacturer that offers the ability to program their GPUs directly in ASM, how much more performance could I get? I am looking to get the flexibility of a sophisticated software renderer, such as RenderMan, Mental Ray, or Maxwell, but with an obvious focus on realtime rendering (60 fps or greater) and low-level programming directly to the metal.

14:50 <Cepheid> Since the graphics cards these days usually rely on a binary blob of data to run.

14:51 <Cepheid> If you're referring to shader assembly, or compute shading, that's an entirely different thing.

14:51 <Nuclear> ...but with an obvious focus on realtime rendering (60 fps or greater) and low-level programming to exploit all the performance at the bare metal.

14:51 <Cepheid> Er, compute assembly*

14:53 <Nuclear> Yeah, I am aware there is some logic dedicated directly to graphical features, but apparently since we have unified, general-purpose GPU architectures that superseded the old, fixed-function, dedicated graphics of yesteryear, I would expect software to not much rely on dedicated graphics features.

14:54 *** Quits: KooK (KooK@Pony-t2bvrf.client.mchsi.com) (Quit: Mutter: http://www.mutterirc.com)

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14:54 <Nuclear> In fact, I like to look at modern GPUs as glorified VLIW CPUs with vector and some dedicated hardware for graphics specific operations.

14:55 <Nuclear> But, compute still makes up the majority of even older DirectX and OpenGL applications, right?

14:55 <Cepheid> I'd have to see the programming API to understand what you're talking about, to be honest.  I've never heard of what you're describing.  The lowest-level stuff these days is Vulkan and DX12.

14:57 <Nuclear> It's more related to compute on GCN using ASM; I am wondering if it could be used in place of rendering an API that uses a higher level of abstraction than ASM. I have to look into it myself, and verify if it can only be applied to compute and not graphics rendering.

14:57 <Cepheid> Compute can definitely be used in the place of standard OpenGL or Direct3D.

14:59 <Cepheid> Would it be faster?  I have my doubts.  Compute has it's own overhead, as well.  But it could definitely be used to do rendering.

15:00 <RazorSharpFang> There's always software rendering

15:00 <RazorSharpFang> 2fps

15:00 <Nuclear> That's my favorite rendering.

15:00 <Cepheid> Software rendering at 1920x1080, hah.

15:00 <Cepheid> But yes, software rendering does have it's benefits, provided the resolution is low enough.

15:00 <Nuclear> Much more flexible to program, and no limit to what level I can program at.

15:01 *** Quits: KooK (KooK@Pony-t2bvrf.client.mchsi.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

15:01 <Nuclear> There are some really fast software renderers, though, provided you can keep the complexity low enough for realtime rendering.

15:01 <Cepheid> More or less.

15:01 <Nuclear> I think it means more reliance on brute force computational power.

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15:02 <Cepheid> Officially, compute can accelerate non-standard OpenGL and DirectX rendering, and can even implement features not commonly seen.

15:02 <Nuclear> Toy Story, for example, required 800,000 machine-hours to render over a period of six months, and the hardware it was rendered on had a maximum theoretical performance of 48 GFLOPS.

15:03 <Cepheid> But it'd be hard as all hell.

15:03 <Nuclear> I think, if you wanted to run that in realtime (the movie ran at 24 fps), and was rendered in 1536x922 resolution without any ray-tracing or anti-aliasing.

15:04 <Nuclear> You would need 10s if not 100s of teraFLOPS.

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15:04 <Nuclear> Just to render at original release specs.

15:05 <RazorSharpFang> Yeah, but those models weren't made for real-time rendering

15:05 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Allo, guvna

15:05 <RazorSharpFang> They knew what they were doing and what they were getting into, and were okay with the required hours.

15:05 <Cepheid> Aye.  If you account for that, and optimize the models without compromising quality, you could probably get away with it.

15:06 <Nuclear> But if you lowered the complexity, by several orders of magnitude, you could run it in realtime, like the actual Toy Story games.

15:06 <RazorSharpFang> Turns out if you make a task easier, it can be accomplished with less resources.

15:07 <Nuclear> Besides, games today still don't match up with the original Toy Story in geometric complexity (vertex count) or image quality and texture compression.

15:07 <Nuclear> At least in my research.

15:07 <RazorSharpFang> Neither do they need to

15:07 <Nuclear> 4 million polygons per frame.

15:07 <RazorSharpFang> Games aren't just polygons thrown onto a screen.

15:07 <Nuclear> No game today has that complexity, I am sure.

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15:08 <Nuclear> That is just one part of it, but if games want more complex geometry, they factually need more vertices

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15:08 <Fn> http://imgur.com/gallery/piqBSx8

15:08 <AndChat|650601> Great internet innit'

15:08 <Nuclear> No other way around that, otherwise, we would still be on N64-level graphics or worse.

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15:09 <KooK> Yay, I just put a bid in on a computer

15:09 <RazorSharpFang> The N64 was a great console.

15:09 <KooK> 3 days until the auction ends

15:09 <RazorSharpFang> Ocarina of time bro

15:09 *** AndChat|650601 is now known as SkippeZ_ShadoW

15:09 <KooK> I have 3 N64's :D

15:09 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> I din't like ocarina too much

15:09 <KooK> 2 Pikachu editions :P

15:10 <RazorSharpFang> Majora's mask bro

15:10 <KooK> Smash brothers

15:10 <Nuclear> Toy Story didn't use any anti-aliasing, and that convinces me that if your vertex count and textures are uncompressed, and you have great shading and lighting (even if there's no ray-tracing), you can have a super sharp game rendered in realtime.

15:10 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Bearing in mind i've never got close to ending any zelda game

15:10 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> To be honest, i prefer the slight darker tones Majora gave to the series

15:10 <Nuclear> Textures are compressed in games from 10:1 or way over and are subsampled significantly before they are compressed.

15:11 <RazorSharpFang> Nuclear: Yeah, maybe on your gigatitanmegadrive. I'm using integrated graphics.

15:11 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> It really... idk, you get the latest one having some fidgety possesed character then you'll be set

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15:11 <Nuclear> No use in claiming your textures are 4K when you have them compressed and supsampled.

15:12 <RazorSharpFang> 4K lmao I run games in 640x480 sometimes lol

15:12 <Nuclear> RazorSharpFang: Cell phone graphics processors can hit 500 GFLOPS single-precision. Just look at the NVIDIA Shield console with the Tegra X1.

15:12 <Nuclear> That only costs $200 and has 256 cores.

15:12 <RazorSharpFang> Yeah, if you have a thousand dollars to throw away

15:12 <RazorSharpFang> In Australia, it's far more expensive.

15:13 <Nuclear> It consumes 10 W of power and is basically a beefy SoC that could be used in a tablet.

15:13 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Here it's £150

15:13 <RazorSharpFang> Not everyone lives in the priviledged American silicon valley.

15:13 <KooK> Only the cool people do

15:13 <Cepheid> Nuclear:  Despite compression, there is a difference between 4k resolution textures and say, 512x512.

15:13 <Nuclear> I see what you mean. Your government makes everything expensive on purpose, and bans a lot of media including games.

15:13 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> ... 200 is alot

15:14 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Oh, KooK i gotta ask you somin'

15:14 <KooK> SkippeZ_ShadoW: Look at the conversion rates

15:14 <Cepheid> And compression techniques are getting better.  Not quite lossless level yet, but it's getting there

15:14 <KooK> Is this about your Buick?

15:15 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Maybs

15:15 <Nuclear> Cepheid, but in my opinion, an uncompressed 512x512 32-bit 4:4:4:4 RGBA texture will still look as good as a 4096x4096 4:1:1:4 RGBA texture with a 100:1 compression ratio.

15:15 <Cepheid> Except the compression rates between the two are identical.

15:15 <RazorSharpFang> PNG compression is lossless

15:15 <Cepheid> Or at least, they should be.

15:16 *** FreezeFrame is now known as SleepFrame

15:16 <Cepheid> I've never seen a 512x512 texture beat out a 4096x4096 texture when it comes to application.  That is, unless you are intentionally compressing it with the WORST COMPRESSION IMAGINABLE.

15:16 <Cepheid> Or worst compression settings imaginable.

15:17 *** Nightshine|Sleep is now known as ShyBat|AFK

15:17 <Cepheid> If you strive for size, trying to cram a 4k texture into the same size as a high-quality-compressed 512x512 texture, then yeah, you're going to have a bad time.

15:17 <Nuclear> I don't care about resolution when I want all my data assets are compressed. Uncompressed assets need no BS codecs to decode and thus no processing overhead; that means no wasted lines of code and thus storage space for software decompression, or silicon die area for hardware decompression, and of course, no overhead.

15:17 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> I don't like anti-aliasing

15:17 <Cepheid> You do realize the compression is to improve performance, right?

15:17 <Nuclear> No use in compressing textures at all, IMHO. I don't compress my pictures, videos, or audio.

15:18 <RazorSharpFang> I compress my pictures, I compress my videos and I compress my audio

15:18 <Cepheid> Nuclear, are you familiar with the size of the data that you're talking about here?

15:18 <Nuclear> It can't do that, it's impossible. Decompression, whether lossy or so-called lossless, absolutely required overhead in software and hardware.

15:18 <RazorSharpFang> It sounds like you're an elite talking down the masses.

15:18 <Cepheid> Nuclear:  Heh.

15:18 <Cepheid> Yeah, an elite who doesn't understand.

15:18 <Nuclear> I am more than aware, Cepheid.

15:18 <RazorSharpFang> Hard disk space isn't unlimited.

15:18 <Cepheid> I don't believe you.

15:19 <Cepheid> You really don't understand graphics hardware.

15:19 <Cepheid> What you intend to do with it above?  Good luck, it isn't going to work with your mindset.

15:20 <Cepheid> A 4096x4096, 24-bit image, uncompressed is 128MBytes.  Most graphics cards come with 1-2 GB of video RAM.

15:20 <Nuclear> How does image compression not reduce performance and require processing overhead if not done in hardware but in software instead?

15:20 <Cepheid> And the more bits you apply per component, the worse it gets.

15:20 <RazorSharpFang> It does have an overhead

15:20 <RazorSharpFang> It's called LOADING

15:20 <Cepheid> Nuclear:  By allowing more textures to be crammed into the video card RAM.

15:21 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> ... i swear Halo 3 has like minimal compression but it's like insane especially for 2007

15:21 <Cepheid> Performance isn't just about accessing data that's already in RAM.

15:21 <Cepheid> It's about how much of that data you can cram into the RAM.

15:21 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> I guess it's about optimisation as well, Okami is downscaled from2k on the PS3

15:22 <Nuclear> So, no performance of the GPU is used to decompress the textures, unless you have hardware decoding. Wouldn't that hardware be better used for more RAM instead, rather than wasting die space?

15:22 <Cepheid> You have vertex buffers, each of which can take up several megabytes of RAM or more depending on the complexity of the vertex structure.  You have framebuffers, which also take up gobs of RAM depending on size and composition.  You have all sorts of data structures.

15:22 <Cepheid> ...

15:22 <Cepheid> I really, do not fucking need this today

15:23 <Cepheid> I don't want to have to explain every intricate detail of something, and have you ignore it.

15:23 <Nuclear> Okay, I'm listening.

15:23 <Nuclear> I know what you mean when you say RAM is the limit.

15:23 <Cepheid> A game loads a resource off the disk, fine.

15:24 <Cepheid> But it has to be moved to the GPU.  There are bandwidth limitations, along with time constraints on when that data can be moved to the video RAM.

15:24 <Cepheid> On top of that, video RAM isn't just used for textures.  It's used for vertex buffers, frame buffers, fragment and vertex shaders, even registers in some extreme cases.

15:24 *** Quits: Apple_Bloom (uid52418@the.canon.pony) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

15:25 <Cepheid> The compression is to reduce a 128MB texture to say, 16MB.  Sure, there is overhead in decompression.

15:25 <Cepheid> But in comparison to say, having to load and unload textures over and over and over just to render one scene?

15:25 <Cepheid> It's negligible.

15:26 <Nuclear> I agree with that.

15:26 <Cepheid> When a video card accesses a texture, a buffer, or anything, it has to be resident in video RAM.  It can't be in system RAM.

15:26 <Cepheid> Which means a considerable transfer has to be performed each and every time a resource not in video RAM is accessed.

15:26 <Cepheid> And video memory?  Magnitudes slower than video RAM.

15:26 <Cepheid> At least, as far as the GPU is concerned.

15:27 <Cepheid> ER..  System memory first, video ram second in previous statement.

15:27 <Nuclear> Yes, this is why I wish GPUs had upgradeable memory.

15:27 <Cepheid> System memory is slow in comparison to video memory for the GPU.  Video memory is designed for a specific use.

15:27 <Cepheid> Unfortunately, that's a bit tricky.

15:27 <Nuclear> That would make them last longer.

15:27 <Cepheid> Unlike system RAM, video RAM gets extremely hot.

15:28 <Cepheid> It requires thermal paste, a heatsink, and maybe even a fan to keep it cool.

15:28 <Cepheid> That fan?  It's not only for the GPU.

15:28 *** Joins: Arkomeda (GreekOwl@Pony-qg3im9.eis7.8aea.0587.2a02.IP)

15:28 <Nuclear> Or, hell, make the onboard RAM like a massive cache, like the L3 cache in a CPU, and then allow that cache to interface with DIMM slots on the mainboard.

15:28 <Cepheid> So to replace the memory of a video card, it'd involve taking a bunch of components and replacement of thermal paste.

15:29 <Cepheid> Cache RAM is even trickier to replace, because the reason for it's fast performance has primarily to do with the distance to the core.

15:29 <Cepheid> That's why it's usually built right into the core itself.

15:29 <Cepheid> And why it's so limited in capacity.  Only so much of it can fit on the chip die.

15:30 <RazorSharpFang> I think a lot of modern computers are optimized for cost:speed ratio

15:30 <Nuclear> No, I mean like the L4 DRAM cache that gets used off-die even on the best chips today.

15:30 <Nuclear> That is what I equate GDDR to.

15:30 <Nuclear> Since it is off-die and close to the GPU on the PCB card.

15:30 <Cepheid> GDDR is closer in line to the main system RAM for a CPU.

15:31 <Cepheid> And it's expensive as hell.

15:31 <Cepheid> Right now, the technology isn't there to allow for uncompressed textures.

15:31 *** Joins: Princess_Nedemai (Nedemai@Pony-mc9uel.home.cgocable.net)

15:31 <Cepheid> Well, it is.

15:31 <Cepheid> Just not very many uncompressed textures.

15:32 <Nuclear> It is, it is, but there should be a RAM interface that can connect to dedicated DIMM slots on the board. Do you think this is better than passing data over the PCI-E bus? Could it be a stopgap solution?

15:32 <Cepheid> It'd be a good starting point, but where are you going to put the slots?  What about cooling?

15:32 *** Joins: DARK (DARK@Pony-1pp.cqi.67.82.IP)

15:32 <Nuclear> It would be slower, but faster than the PCI-E bus. I just want to know how feasible it would be.

15:33 <DARK> hello

15:33 <Nuclear> They would be adjacent to the CPU's DIMM slots, closest to the PCI-E slots for minimum latency.

15:33 <Cepheid> As it is, video cards are getting exceptionally large due to the large number of resistors, transistors and such.  There's already space taken up for the GPU core, and the RAM, and they're all distanced so as to not interfere with one another.

15:33 *** Joins: Nedemai__ (Nedemai@Pony-mc9uel.home.cgocable.net)

15:34 <Cepheid> If you're talking what I'm thinking, I'm not entirely sure it's sufficient.

15:34 *** Nedemai is now known as Pony_1972

15:34 <Nuclear> I see, I guess it's not something manufacturers would ever care to add.

15:34 *** Nedemai__ is now known as Nedemai

15:34 <Cepheid> There are hard drives that plug into PCI-E and use memory DIMMs and batteries to create a super-fast drive.

15:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +h Nedemai

15:34 <Cepheid> But there are constraints.

15:34 *** Quits: Pony_1972 (Nedemai@fluttershy.is.best.pony) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

15:35 <Cepheid> Would it help to connect GDDR dimms to a PCI-E bus?  Especially if the capacity were large?  Yes.

15:36 <Cepheid> It would not be as fast as a direct connection.  Plus the core issue remains, to a degree.

15:36 * SkippeZ_ShadoW just wants a capable pc running forza horizon 3, he can get neither

15:36 <Cepheid> You still have to transfer the data from disk to system memory, then from system memory to the PCI-E-connected memory.

15:37 *** Joins: |^| (Rainb@Pony-fcs5bh.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)

15:37 <Cepheid> And unless you have like, 32GB of the memory or more, it's probably still not going to be enough for most games.

15:37 *** Quits: Princess_Nedemai (Nedemai@Pony-mc9uel.home.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

15:38 <Cepheid> Uncompressed textures are large.  The largest currently usable is 8192x8192, and with 24-bit RGB, that's 192MB per texture.  4k is 48MB, I did the math wrong, looks like  But it's still an issue.

15:39 <Cepheid> And as of late, we've been moving to stuff like 10-bits per component, or adding a fourth component, or even using just plain old single-precision floats for each component.

15:40 <Nuclear> Oh, no, Cepheid, I meant using a direct connection from the card (kind of like a SLI or CFX bridge, but faster) GDDR5 VRAM or the GPU core itself, which interfaces with a direct connection on a mainboard, links to an IMC (internal memory controller) that can use DDR3 or DDR4; the connection would not pass through a PCI-E interface. I just wanted to clarify what I meant.

15:40 *** Quits: KooK (KooK@Pony-t2bvrf.client.mchsi.com) (Connection closed)

15:40 <Nuclear> Dedicated GDDR DIMMs would be expensive and not as widespread as common DDR3 or DDR4 memory.

15:41 <Nuclear> Much cheaper and mote practical to use DDR3 or DDR4 instead.

15:41 <Cepheid> Not sure if that would help still.  As it is, PCI-E's specs exceed the current bandwidth of system memory right now.  Meaning that we're using close to the theoretical limit of system RAM as is when doing transfers.

15:42 <Bastion_2100> !link SAM

15:42 <DerpyBot> http://derpibooru.org/633124

15:42 <Cepheid> PCI-E is not a bottleneck in this case.  The issue is simply that DDR3/DDR4 RAM is slower than GDDR3, 4 and 5 by a considerable amount.

15:42 <Bastion_2100> what

15:42 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> They're on about complicated stoofs

15:42 <Nuclear> But, even a dual-channel DDR3-1600 SDRAM setup allows for 25.6 GB/sec between two 64-bit DIMMs. Even a 16-lane PCI-E 3.0 slot only manages 16 GB/sec.

15:43 <Cepheid> Really?  Let me confirm that, because I could have sworn PCI-E was faster than the bandwidth of RAM right now.

15:43 *** Quits: Bastion_2100 (Bastion_210@Pony-rnko0o.dynamic.surfer.at) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

15:43 <Cepheid> Ah, seems you're right.

15:43 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> ... i feel like this is an argument for some reasobn...

15:43 <Nuclear> If you bring in DDR4-2400 and bring it up to four channels, it becomes 3 times that.

15:44 <Nuclear> Almost 80 GB/sec.

15:44 <Nuclear> And, if you bring more channels, more DIMMs, you have more bandwidth.

15:44 <Cepheid> That said, there are still other considerations.  The GPU can't simply use the DDR3/DDR4 RAM.

15:44 <Nuclear> Yeah, I am not sure how it would be done.

15:44 <Cepheid> It would still have to transfer data from the DDR3/4 to the GDDR3/4/5 RAM.

15:45 <Cepheid> Well, for starters, if it's connected akin to an SLI/Crossfire setup, the GPU could make a request over that connection to perform a transfer.

15:45 *** Joins: wobniaR (wobniaR@Monoshy.Hydra.Fighter.64)

15:45 <Finwe> Mr wobniaR.

15:46 *** Joins: Pony|52626 (Pony52626@Pony-rnko0o.dynamic.surfer.at)

15:46 * Finwe doffs his hat.

15:46 *** Pony|52626 is now known as Bastion_2100

15:46 <Cepheid> There are a lot of complexity issues involved in the setup though.

15:46 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Finnnnweeeh

15:46 <Finwe> Mr SkippeZ_ShadoWwwwwwwww.

15:47 * Finwe doffs his hat.

15:47 <Cepheid> The off-board memory system needs to keep track of all the IDs of each texture, and when the GPU goes to access it's own memory, it needs to keep track of which textures are currently loaded into video RAM.

15:47 <Bastion_2100> !link SAM strike

15:47 <DerpyBot> Twilight says she doesn't have anything in the library about that

15:47 <Cepheid> It'd be a huge memory management headache and a mess.

15:47 <Nuclear> I like to think a fiber link of 1 Tb/sec at minimum could allow for enough bandwidth over a single cable from the GPU card, to connect to a chip on the motherboard that interfaces with a quad-channel DDR4 memory controller. That's as succinct as I can make it.

15:48 <Nuclear> Yeah, I agree, Cepheid.

15:49 <Cepheid> This is assuming that writing to video RAM is as fast as reading from it.

15:51 <Cepheid> If the internal memory system doesn't handle a saturated PCI-E 3.0 x16 line for transfers, then using your idea won't matter.

15:52 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> I completely know what these guys are on about

15:53 <Cepheid> And thus far, from what I'm reading, it doesn't sound like the PCI-E speed is affecting performance all that much, if at all.

15:53 <Cepheid> Which implies that the bandwidth is not being fully utilized.

15:54 <Cepheid> And the results I'm looking at are a benchmark for a GTX 1080 on PCI-E 3.0 at 8x and 16x.

15:54 <Cepheid> The difference in performance is a grand total of 2-3 frames per second.

15:55 *** Joins: KooK (KooK@Pony-t2bvrf.client.mchsi.com)

15:55 <Cepheid> So the full bandwidth isn't being utilized.  Therefore, the solution of using off-card DDR3/DDR4 DIMMs won't matter.  The transfers from system memory to VRAM is far lower than the bandwidth of PCI-E.

15:57 <Cepheid> Hmm..

15:58 <Nuclear> Well, that sucks; oh, well, a man can dream I guess.

15:58 <RazorSharpFang> What I'd like to be able to do is use networked machine's graphics card to enhance performance.

15:58 <Cepheid> Uncompressed textures would definitely saturate the line, of course. but..

15:59 <Cepheid> If you used a lot of large, uncompressed textures, you'd get severe texture thrashing.

15:59 <Cepheid> Loading textures, using them for these few pixels, then unloading the texture to make room for another texture, and having to wait for the transfer from system memory to video memory.

15:59 <Cepheid> The transfers between system and video RAM are much slower than say, VRAM and the GPU.

16:00 <Cepheid> You throw one of those large textures out to pull in a new one, the GPU will stall, waiting on that transfer to complete.

16:00 <Cepheid> That's why texture compression is used.  The overhead of decompression beats that of the transfer.

16:01 <Cepheid> It's possible to go without texture compression, but in order to keep performance up, you'd have to limit the number of textures in VRAM at any one point in time.

16:01 <Cepheid> Otherwise, you get a stuttery, sluggish mess because textures are being loaded and unloaded rapidly.

16:02 <Cepheid> And a direct connection to DDR3/DDR4 will not help, even if it's capacity is greater.  The access time of DDR3/DDR4 is slower than GDDR3/4/5, thus again, causing a stall.

16:02 * SkippeZ_ShadoW caughs

16:02 <Nuclear> I see, it really is a complex issue that won't be solved for a long time.

16:02 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Xbox 1

16:02 *** Quits: KooK (KooK@Pony-t2bvrf.client.mchsi.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

16:02 <Cepheid> You want to solve the problem?  Design a lossless image compression algorithm that can be implemented in hardware, and is as fast as current implementations, or within a certain percentage of speed.

16:04 <Cepheid> As it is, current algorithms are getting better at packing the data with as little noise as possible.

16:05 <Cepheid> Problem is, everyone's stuck using an archaic, proprietary compression algorithm at the moment.

16:05 <Cepheid> Because only the most recent generation of cards support the newer algorithms that are better.

16:05 <Cepheid> Mostly because they were just released within the last year or two.

16:06 *** Joins: unicodingunicorn (unicodingun@Pony-bklu27.n4ri.ljqb.e800.2404.IP)

16:06 <Cepheid> Currently the newer compression techniques are called ETC2 and EAC.  The one most commonly used is S3TC.

16:09 *** Fall is now known as FallenSilent

16:10 <Cepheid> http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=0x2012&image=siggraph_etc2_08_show

16:10 <Cepheid> There are still artifacts, admittedly, but it's getting better.

16:10 <Nuclear> I see, I see. I never really looked into the different forms of texture compression. I am familiar with S3TC, which I believe is supported on Intel integrated graphics.

16:10 *** Joins: Eventide (uid61788@Tips.Fedora)

16:12 <Cepheid> It's supported on damn-well near everything.

16:12 <Cepheid> It is literally the most commonly used compression technique.  It is used in almost every game out there.

16:12 <Cepheid> As for the rest of the stuff thrown into memory, for the record..

16:13 <RazorSharpFang> Eh, photos aren't probably a good representation of how a game texture will look

16:13 <Cepheid> Vertex buffers.  These are largish(Not as large as textures, mind) buffers of memory allocated for vertex information.  What kind of information?  Usually position, color of the vertex, normal, texture coordinates.

16:13 *** Joins: chameleon215 (chameleon21@Pony-ub39c4.sub-70-198-1.myvzw.com)

16:14 <Cepheid> All of which usually has to be in single-precision float, because that's what the GPU is designed to work with efficiently.  Usually.  Some are designed to work with double or quad-precision.

16:14 <Cepheid> Though quad is extremely rare.

16:14 <Cepheid> In fact, I'm pretty sure no consumer device supports quad, because that would be more for scientific work.

16:15 <chameleon215> anyone here?

16:16 <Cepheid> Point is, let's see now...  3 components for position, 3 components for color(4 if you want alpha!), normal is usually 3 components, texture coordinates 2.  So that's 3 + 4 + 3 + 2 = 12 floats in a worst-case scenario.

16:16 <Nuclear> Yes, the IBM System/370, introduced in 1970, was the first computer to feature support for quad-precision floating-point numbers; the SPARC V8 ISA from the early 1990s supported it natively in hardware.

16:16 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> chameleon215: ya

16:16 *** Quits: Arkomeda (GreekOwl@Pony-qg3im9.eis7.8aea.0587.2a02.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

16:16 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> But they're talking complecated stuff

16:16 <Cepheid> A float is 4 bytes in size, so 48 bytes per vertex.  Now, common models these days can reach upwards of a few hundred thousand vertices, if not more.

16:17 <Cepheid> Actually, it's closer to 30k to 40k, it seems.

16:17 <Cepheid> And that was back in 2014.  Anyways, let's use 40k as an example.

16:18 *** Quits: Pinmane (Pinmane@Pony-gvq8nc.ip20.netikka.fi) (Quit: Leaving)

16:18 <Nuclear> There are vector registers in the best Xeon CPUs, which feature 512-bit registers (such as the AVX2 instruction set extensions to x86), but I don't think it means quad-precision or even more precise floating-point calculations can be performed. It allows for up to eight 64-bit floating-point calculations per clock cycle, if memory serves me right.

16:18 *** Joins: rhg135 (rhg135@Rainbows.Get.Dashed)

16:18 *** Joins: Pinmane (Pinmane@Pony-gvq8nc.ip20.netikka.fi)

16:18 <Cepheid> Hum, so much for my argument.  XD  1.83mb for all that vertex data.  But then again, we're loading quite a few models, and as the quality increases, it gets worse.

16:18 <Cepheid> Nah.

16:18 <Cepheid> Vector registers are designed to perform vector operations.  They hold multiple floats and perform operations on all those floats at once.

16:19 <RazorSharpFang> Meanwhile, I'm on a Pentium 4.

16:19 *** Quits: DashedRainbows (rhg135@Rainbows.Get.Dashed) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

16:19 <Nuclear> I would love to see 64-bit, unpacked and separated, floating-point Z/depth and stencil buffers.

16:19 <Cepheid> So for example, I could use SSE to load 4 floats into a single register, a large part of a matrix in another register, and do a bit of work to do a fast matrix-vector multiply.

16:20 <Cepheid> Possible, but difficult.

16:20 <Cepheid> You're circumventing the specification of OpenGL and DirectX to do that, currently.

16:20 <Nuclear> Now, instead of a packed, 24-bit, floating-point Z/depth buffer and a fixed-point, 8-bit stencil buffer.

16:20 <Nuclear> Never made any sense to me.

16:20 <Cepheid> Holdover from ages ago.

16:20 <Cepheid> No one's bothered to improve it.

16:20 <Nuclear> This is a relic of the early 1990s.

16:20 <Cepheid> Well, no.  People have improved it.

16:20 <Cepheid> Look up the irregular z-buffer.

16:21 <Nuclear> There are some GPUs that support 32-bit Z-buffers with an 8-bit stencil.

16:21 <Nuclear> It is packed into a 64-bit value, so 24 bits for alignment.

16:21 <Cepheid> Mmm.

16:21 <Nuclear> I am not entirely sure of that, though.

16:21 <Cepheid> That would probably be on double-precision hardware.

16:22 <Cepheid> Which does exist for consumer use, but that hardware is not designed for games.

16:22 <Nuclear> Or, it could be a 32-bit Z floating-point buffer, but the stencil buffer has to be disabled.

16:22 <Nuclear> lmao

16:22 <Nuclear> That would look like something, I'm sure.

16:23 <Cepheid> It'd have to be a 32-bit Z plus a 32-bit stencil for best performance.

16:24 <Cepheid> Unlike CPUs, which can handle reading in all types of sizes, GPUs are designed to read in only one or two sizes.

16:24 *** Quits: chameleon215 (chameleon21@Pony-ub39c4.sub-70-198-1.myvzw.com) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

16:24 <Cepheid> 4 bytes and 8 bytes, currently.

16:24 <Cepheid> The restriction is in place for performance and to keep the die size down.

16:25 <Nuclear> That's the issue, though. The APIs only allow the Z and stencil buffers to be packed.

16:25 <Cepheid> Again, a holdover.  Vulkan and DX12 I think can fix that.

16:25 <Nuclear> Ahh, I hope it's going to be fixed, soon.

16:26 * Schism returns from his nap. "Hum."

16:26 <Nuclear> Otherwise, ASM or direct GPU programming is the only way now.

16:26 <Nuclear> I'm sure Vulkan and DX12 will mature.

16:26 <Cepheid> That's pretty much what Vulkan and DX12 are, I believe.

16:26 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Vulkan?

16:27 <Cepheid> They're not ASM, of course, but they're extremely low-level APIs.

16:27 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> What os is that for?

16:27 <Cepheid> Vulkan is the replacement for OpenGL, so officially, any platform that has a Vulkan driver for a given video card.

16:27 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Oh

16:28 <Cepheid> Essentially, it is a low-level API for programming graphics.  Like, extremely low level.

16:28 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Okie

16:29 <Cepheid> I haven't touched it myself because Vulkan drivers aren't mature yet(Nor are DX12, I think), and from what I hear, it's a nightmare to learn.

16:29 <Nuclear> There was some effort to make a replacement for OpenGL in 2004, methinks, but it never panned out, and so we had to wait for AMD to create Mantle for their GCN ISA back in 2014, which was then adopted by Khronos for the replacement drop-in for OpenGL.

16:30 <Cepheid> Except Mantle != Vulkan, from what I understand.

16:30 <Cepheid> So I guess that never panned out either.

16:30 <Nuclear> I am just tired of being not able to directly access the hardware if I so choose to, hence why I support AMD's GCN, since you can assemble GCN ISA code for compute.

16:30 <Cepheid> Pretty sure you can for nVidia as well.

16:31 <Cepheid> It's just not recommended because, I'll be frank, writing assembly code is hard.  Very hard.  Writing *GOOD* assembly code is even harder.

16:31 <Nuclear> NVIDIA does not reveal the ISA specs.

16:31 <Schism> I offer the following random request, for the sake of comedy.  http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1138285/images/o-HOW-DO-I-LAND-SKYWRITING-facebook.jpg

16:31 <Cepheid> You're better off with a low-level or high-level language.

16:32 <Nuclear> You cannot program their GPUs at the level of machine/object code or ASM as with AMD.

16:32 <Cepheid> http://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/inline-ptx-assembly/index.html#axzz4Rt7aYA2m

16:32 <Cepheid> This implies otherwise.

16:32 <Nuclear> Oh, well that's new to me. I'll look into it.

16:33 <Cepheid> CUDA is nVidia's variant of Compute.

16:33 <Cepheid> Which further complicates matters.

16:33 <Cepheid> And is also the reason why I suggest a high-level approach.

16:33 <Finwe> Like Linus Torvalds put it...

16:34 <Cepheid> Basic gist:  You ever try running x86 code on an ARM, or vice versa?

16:35 * Electron has been napping whole day

16:35 <Cepheid> Basically, assembly written for a AMD card won't run on an nVidia card, and vice versa.

16:37 <Cepheid> The usual solution to the problem is to use a generic language.  Write some code in it, load it up in an application that interfaces with the driver through OpenGL, DirectX, Vulkan, etc, then have the driver compile the code, and execute it.

16:37 <Cepheid> If you want, you can even read back the compiled binary code and save it to disk for later re-use.

16:38 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Electron: great job

16:39 <Finwe> Schism: I answer with "Hitler Confirmed To Not Love Hugs": https://static.ylilauta.org/files/p6/orig/zswo1ekf/hitler%20saa%20kaikki%20huorat.png

16:39 * Electron ( -_-)'s at SkippeZ_ShadoW

16:39 <Nuclear> Interesting, Cepheid.

16:39 <Finwe> The expression on his face: "Argh! Nein! Not ponies!"

16:40 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Hitler had blue eyes

16:40 <Cepheid> Nuclear;  Many games do it, too.  Most prominent example I can think of is Elite Dangerous.

16:41 <Cepheid> The game literally states on startup that it's compiling various shaders for use.  After that, it loads the pre-compiled shaders from then on.

16:41 *** Quits: |^| (Rainb@Pony-fcs5bh.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

16:42 <Cepheid> And No Man's Sky does the same.  First launch compiles a bunch of shaders, then each launch after that just loads precompiled shaders.

16:43 <Cepheid> The alternative solution is to compile for multiple video card architectures beforehand and then load the correct shaders on launch by detecting what GPU one is using.  Guess how well that works out.

16:44 <RazorSharpFang> I've never developed a shader properly so I have no idea.

16:44 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> They tqaaught no man's sky's engine colour theory

16:45 <Cepheid> Put simply:  You think crashes because a video card isn't supported is bad?  Yeah, good luck trying to match the shaders to the video card.

16:46 <RazorSharpFang> Why would a single video card not be supported? Wouldn't anything unsupported be done in software?

16:46 <RazorSharpFang> I thought DirectX/OGL abstracted that away

16:46 <Cepheid> It's better to write your shader in GLSL, HLSL, or SPIR-V, and do a one-time compile.

16:46 <Cepheid> RazorSharpFang:  ISA incompatibility.

16:46 <Cepheid> Shaders are compiled into machine code to run on the GPU.

16:46 <Schism> Chicken fillets... thereupon, do I want ketchup, mustard or Scoot sauce?

16:47 <Finwe> Scoot sauce goes well with fillets of Scootaloo.

16:47 <Cepheid> And, currently, for ISAs, we have the AMD ISA, the nVidia ISA, and Intel ISA, and probably others.

16:49 <Cepheid> These are then further divided up into generations.  The ISA for the older AMD Radeon series is not the same as the current AMD R series, nor is the nVidia GeForce ISA the same as the current nVidia GTX/GT/GTS ### series ISA.

16:49 *** Joins: Saerydoth (akai@Pony-t8d.c1i.56.172.IP)

16:49 * Electron cooks rice

16:50 <Cepheid> Compiled shader code for a modern card won't run on an older model of card, usually.  It generally has to be in the same "series".  IE:  nVidia GTX 960, 970, 980 and so on are all compabitle with one another.

16:50 <Cepheid> While an nVidia GTX 870 and GTX 970 are not.

16:50 <Cepheid> Though they might be.  It's dependent on what changed under the hood.

16:50 <Nuclear> I'd love to see a comeback for the Cell processor, and something akin to the vector extensions used in the Fujitsu PRIMEHPC FX100 with SPARC64 XIfx CPUs, the MIPS IV (R5900) chip in the PS2, the Cell BE in the O

16:50 <Nuclear> PS3.

16:51 <Cepheid> Yeah, I'm familiar with Cell.

16:51 <Cepheid> I've got a book that has a chapter dedicated to using it for graphics programming.

16:51 <Nuclear> Also, the vector-VLIW-RISC architecture, FR-V, made by Fujitsu.

16:52 * Finwe just bought 10 GTX 1060 cards.

16:52 <RazorSharpFang> Cepheid: Why don't they just compile it at first-run ?

16:52 <Nuclear> NEC also has a pure vector architecture called SX, and that can pump out 64 DP FLOPS per clock cycle.

16:52 <Nuclear> Or 128 SP FLOPS per clock cycle.

16:52 *** Joins: Arkomeda (GreekOwl@Pony-qg3im9.eis7.8aea.0587.2a02.IP)

16:52 <Cepheid> RazorSharpFang:  I just said that's what they do now.  I was discussing an alternative that was used in the past that caused problems.

16:52 <Nuclear> Crazy stuff.

16:52 <RazorSharpFang> Ah I see.

16:53 <Cepheid> Do keep in mind Nuclear, that while those numbers are impressive, they're theoretical limits, and on top of that, require special programming.

16:53 <RazorSharpFang> Can't you decompile/recompile a shader if it's not right for the graphics card?

16:53 <Cepheid> Writing code for SSE and AVX is not the same as writing code for a standard x86, ARM or Power processor.

16:53 *** Joins: |^| (Rainb@Pony-fcs5bh.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)

16:54 <Cepheid> RazorSharpFang:  Automatically, no.

16:54 <Cepheid> There are legal, secrecy and programming-related problems with what you suggest.

16:55 <Cepheid> First off, AMD and nVidia likely keep portions of their ISA a secret.  And even if they didn't, implementing it in one another's drivers invokes legal concerns.

16:55 <RazorSharpFang> Well, you could always emulate them in software. : / But I can only imagine the performance downgrade.

16:55 <Cepheid> Programming-wise, the compiled code is usually optimized.

16:55 <Cepheid> And when it's decompiled, it'll be written out in an optimized format.  And may require functionality that one card or the other does not support.

16:56 <Nuclear> The Cell could only do 8 SP FLOPS per clock cycle, or 2 SP FLOPS per 7 clock cycles. Also, the fixed-point performance was poor. This was the first-gen Cell from 2005 used in the PS3. The final variant produced by IBM in 2008 was called the QS22, and it had full DP support, and matched the 102.4 DP GFLOPS of a single core in the NEC SX-9.

16:56 <Cepheid> AMD could use a 3-argument ISA, while nVidia might use a 2-argument ISA.  Or some other weird setups.

16:57 <Nuclear> The Cell QS22 was used in conjunction with AMD hexa-core Opteron CPUs in the Roadrunner supercomputer, the first to surpass 1 petaFLOPS in 2008.

16:57 <Cepheid> Heh.

16:57 <Cepheid> That said, even at those high performance numbers, they would not be suited for graphics.

16:57 <Nuclear> So, bring back vector processors, or hybrids, or better vector extensions.

16:57 <Cepheid> They could be used for graphics, but they would have limitations.

16:57 <Cepheid> Nuclear:  SSE, AVX, and a number of other techs in modern processors.

16:57 <Nuclear> Yeah, great for general-purpose compute, though.

16:58 <Cepheid> Many modern processors support vector ISAs, the problem is again, compatibility.

16:58 * wobniaR gives Finwe a single bap

16:58 <Cepheid> A program written with SSE2 instructions compiled in won't run on a PC using SSE.

16:58 * Finwe nimbly evades the bap.

16:59 <Nuclear> Yes, but I mean vector extensions that match up with 16 DP FLOPS per cycle, or at least 8 DP FLOPS per cycle. Only x86 CPUs that support this are Xeons with AVX2.

16:59 <Finwe> Whence this unexpected bap?

16:59 <Nuclear> They do 8. Most can only handle 4 at the most with conventional CPUs.

16:59 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Hui finwe

16:59 <Nuclear> Itanium could handle 6, I think.

16:59 <Cepheid> At the moment, for gaming, it's not as necessary as you think.  It'd be nice, but it's still not necessary.

17:00 <Nuclear> I know, it'd be nice for sure.

17:00 <Cepheid> Especially given that matrix multiplication is generally done CPU-side for graphics programming these days.

17:00 <Finwe> SkippeZ_ShadoW: хуй?

17:00 <Cepheid> But right now, the problem is that video cards and CPUs keep jumping ahead of one another, rather than keeping pace.

17:00 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Hmm?

17:00 <Cepheid> The result is that you're stalled on one or the other, waiting for something to complete.

17:00 <Finwe> SkippeZ_ShadoW: That's how Russians write "hui".

17:01 <Cepheid> I've had my current CPU for about 5 years now.  It's only just starting to cause stalling in the graphics pipeline.

17:01 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> It was a typo

17:02 <Finwe> I see.

17:03 <Finwe> I have to admit that it would be more logical to say "hi" or "hai" or "shark" or something like that.

17:03 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> ...

17:03 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> What?

17:03 <Finwe> What what?

17:04 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Shark..?

17:04 <RazorSharpFang> Cepheid: Meanwhile my Pentium 4 is... almost obsolete.

17:04 <Finwe> "Hai" is the Norwegian and Finnish (and German, although they would write it with a capital H) word for "shark".

17:04 <Finwe> o3o

17:05 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Oooh

17:05 * Schism rolls over and places a plush shark on Finwe's head.

17:06 <Cepheid> RazorSharpFang:  Probably, yeah.

17:06 <Nuclear> The funny thing is, a Pentium 4 is actually quite adequate even today. A 4 GHz Pentium 4 Xeon for example, the last of which were released back in 2005 and supported 64-bit extensions and were fabricated on a 90 nm process, had two cores, four threads, and reached clock speeds well above 3 GHz, and had 4 MiB to 8 MiB of total LLC (last level cache) memory. It was also possible to fit 32 of those CPUs in a single computer, and support fo

17:06 <RazorSharpFang> My Pentium 4 doesn't support 64bit lmao

17:06 <Nuclear> ...and reached clock speeds well above 3 GHz, and had 4 MiB to 8 MiB of total LLC (last level cache) memory. It was also possible to fit 32 of those CPUs in a single computer, and support for DDR2-800/DDR2-667 registered, ECC, SDRAM was also there, and you could have as much as 2 TiB of that RAM in one system.

17:06 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> I just wqant that 8-10 grand pc

17:07 <Nuclear> So, you can easily get 25 DP GFLOPS or 50 SP GFLOPS out of a dual-core Pentium 4.

17:07 <Nuclear> That's not slow, even for a 2004/2005 chip that may or may not have 64-bit support.

17:07 <RazorSharpFang> Okay, but you try running Skyrim on that.

17:07 <Nuclear> I still use my old Pentium 4 Xeons to this day.

17:07 <RazorSharpFang> Skyrim is an old game.

17:08 <Nuclear> Unless Skyrim needs SSE3, SSSE3, or some newer instruction set extension, the Pentium 4 will run it fine.

17:08 <Cepheid> Skyrim is surprisingly well-optimized.

17:08 <Cepheid> In a sense.

17:08 <Saerydoth> Dual core pentium 4 3.8 GHz's were blown away by 2.2 GHz single core AMD chips :P

17:08 <Saerydoth> that's how slow they were

17:08 <Cepheid> I can get 60 FPS on my 4k TV with no stress.

17:08 <Nuclear> Even an old non-HyperThreaded, single-core version from the year 2000 that used Rambus RDRAM will run Skyrim.

17:08 <Nuclear> Unless it needs anything better than SSE2.

17:08 <RazorSharpFang> I don't even get 30fps on an Intel i5

17:09 *** Joins: Bubs (crap@Pony-b0hqft.nl)

17:09 <Saerydoth> that's because most games like that are GPU-bound rather than CPU

17:09 <Nuclear> You might be throttling.

17:09 <RazorSharpFang> Integrated graphics cards are fun

17:09 <Cepheid> There is, however, a point where the CPU will become a bottleneck, though.

17:09 <Cepheid> The GPU will stall, waiting on the CPU to finish what it's doing, and vice versa.

17:09 <Nuclear> RazorSharpFang, you can always consider a used GTX 285. Those are cheap as dirt now.

17:09 <Saerydoth> that's true but it doesn't really happen in GPU bound games with remotely modern CPUs'

17:10 <Cepheid> Yeah, it takes a while for it to happen.

17:10 <Saerydoth> nah if you want a cheap video card now the 1050 is the thing to get

17:10 <Cepheid> As stated, I've only started to see it now on my system.

17:10 <RazorSharpFang> Nuclear: Laptop yay

17:10 <Cepheid> Dark Souls III is bottlenecked by the CPU, not the GPU.

17:10 <Saerydoth> now, CPU bound games like most MMO's (WOW is a huge offender here), having a video card past the 1060 doesn't matter, and it's ALL CPU

17:10 <Nuclear> You will only get DX10 support, but Skyrim is a DirextX 9.0c game.

17:10 <Nuclear> But, RazorSharpFang, a Pentium 4 is good enough.

17:10 <Cepheid> Saerydoth:  Even nowadays, they've gotten better.  Especially WoW.

17:10 <Cepheid> No, the bottleneck there is the latency of the connection.

17:11 <Cepheid> But games can be designed around that.

17:11 <Saerydoth> WOW is still hugely CPU bottlenecked

17:11 <Nuclear> Problem with the Pentium 4 is that even the fastest ones which supported DDR2-800 only had 12.8 GB/sec of memory bandwidth.

17:11 <Saerydoth> even the 6700k (the current best CPU for CPU bound gaming) cannot maintain 60fps in a lot of Legion areas

17:11 <Cepheid> Based on my experiences, it runs better than some other MMOs I am familiar with.

17:11 <Nuclear> Yours might be slower.

17:12 <Saerydoth> memory bandwidth is not a factor for gaming the vast majority of the time

17:12 <Cepheid> Though, my experiences with WoW were back when it was just Burning Crusade and earlier.

17:12 <Saerydoth> there is no difference between DDR3 and DDR4 for gaming

17:12 <Cepheid> Heck, even PCI-E bandwidth isn't a big deal.

17:13 <Nuclear> You could live with DDR2.

17:13 <Nuclear> I know I could.

17:13 <Saerydoth> the memory bandwidth thing was a rumor spread by Rambus to try to sell their snake oil garbage

17:13 <Cepheid> Since transfers from system to VRAM isn't as fast as the bandwidth provided.

17:13 <Nuclear> I mostly play DX9 games.

17:13 <Nuclear> Maybe DX10 at best.

17:14 <Nuclear> Saerydoth, hey, now, Rambus XDR2 XDRAM is great technology. 3.2 GHz memory clocks from tech nearly a decade ago. How is that bad?

17:14 <wobniaR> I was just reminded that YOLO has a different interpretation: you obviously love Octavia, which applies to Electron

17:14 <Nuclear> The only issue with Rambus is higher latency.

17:14 * Electron darts his eyes left and right: "...nooooo..."

17:15 <Saerydoth> Anything with the Rambus name on it is garbage that needs to go in the dumpster

17:15 <Nuclear> That is the only issue I ever saw with it. High frequencies required a terminating DIMM for unpopulated slots.

17:15 <Saerydoth> clock speed doesn't mean antyhing

17:15 <Saerydoth> it's snake oil

17:15 <Cepheid> Nowadays, probably, yeah.

17:15 <Nuclear> I don't see how.

17:15 <Cepheid> From what I've read, Rambus was a disaster overall.

17:15 <Nuclear> 3.2 GHz and octal data rate doesn't seem like snake oil.

17:15 <Nuclear> That was in the PS3.

17:15 <Saerydoth> clock speeds on P4 don't matter either.  3.8 HT dual core P4's were outperformed (severely) by a 2.2 GHz single core Athlon

17:15 <Cepheid> It took a long time to produce, longer than expected.  And when it was finally released, it wasn't as good as advertised.

17:15 <Saerydoth> yep, and the PS3 was severely underpowered

17:16 <Goatroth> I saw a noticeable increase in performance after overclocking my CPU from 2.8 to 3.2GHz.

17:16 <Saerydoth> the ads were like "Omg the clock speeds"

17:16 <Goatroth> So no, clock speed is not snake oil.

17:16 <Saerydoth> but clock speeds don't mean anything if your IPC is in the gutter

17:16 <Nuclear> Saerydoth: That is absolutely false. You claim Rambus is snake oil when AMD chips from that era were garbage.

17:16 <Saerydoth> as AMD found out with the FX

17:16 * Finwe boops RazorSharpFang with his ten GTX 1060 graphics cards.

17:16 <Saerydoth> AMD absolutely DESTROYED Intel in that era

17:16 <Nuclear> No better than any P4 at the time.

17:16 *** Quits: Pi (saxopi@Pony-llr.4pn.146.49.IP) (Quit: rip)

17:16 <Finwe> Each of these has more computing capacity than your Pentium 4.

17:16 <Saerydoth> 2.2 single core Athlon XP outperformed dual core 3.8 P4 by quite a comfortable margin

17:16 <Finwe> o3o

17:16 *** Joins: Pi (saxopi@Pony-llr.4pn.146.49.IP)

17:17 <Saerydoth> by even more than the current i7's outperform AMD FX chips

17:17 <Nuclear> LOL, that is false. Last I checked, the AMD chips were not executing more FLOPS per cycle than the NetBurst chips.

17:17 <Saerydoth> Even AMD FX chips are not as bad as the P4 was

17:17 * Cepheid goes to make tea while this conversation just breaks down. Also pokes Nuclear to a PM.

17:17 <Saerydoth> it was a terrible design

17:17 <Saerydoth> FLOPS is a meaningless measurement too

17:17 <Nuclear> No, it wasn't.

17:18 <Cepheid> FLOPs represents the maximum performance if the conditions and the code are ideal.

17:18 <Saerydoth> IPC on both P4 and (to a lesser extent) AMD FX is terrible

17:18 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> What is the Flop meant to mean?

17:18 <Saerydoth> and it reflects that

17:18 <Goatroth> During the era of the Athlon XP, AMD was indeed blowing Intel out of the water, but only until Intel got their crap together and made the P4 not garbage.

17:18 <Nuclear> P4 had pretty much the same number of instructions per clock, fixed-point calculations per clock, and floating-point calculations per clock.

17:18 <Cepheid> And somewhat of an average, too.  Since all the instructions take differing amounts of time.

17:18 <Saerydoth> Intel never made the P4 not garbage

17:18 <Nuclear> Show me where the AMD had better than Intel in that time.

17:18 <Saerydoth> they abandoned the design and made the Core microarchitecture which was not terrible

17:18 <Goatroth> Oh, they did, but it took a long time.

17:18 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> I never heard it until people were trying to say the xbone is better than the pc

17:18 <Cepheid> Multiplication and division are slower than addition and subtraction.

17:18 <Saerydoth> Core achieved parity with AMD, and then when Sandy Bridge came out they leaped ahead and have been ahead since

17:19 <Saerydoth> P4 was never "made better".  It was trashed and replaced

17:19 <Goatroth> For gaming, AMD was king back then.

17:19 <Finwe> SkippeZ_ShadoW: FLOating-Point instructions per Second.

17:19 *** Quits: unicodingunicorn (unicodingun@small.floofy.uni.pone) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

17:19 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> ... o-oh?

17:19 <Goatroth> No, there was a definite point where Intel made a decent P4 that surpassed AMD's offerings.

17:19 <Nuclear> How is a 2.2 GHz AMD chip faster than Intel P4s?

17:19 <Nuclear> You don't know math.

17:19 <Cepheid> SkippeZ_ShadoW:  It's basically how many math operations it will perform per second.

17:20 <Saerydoth> clock speed only matters if you are comparing apples to apples

17:20 <AppleDash> More Ghz does not by any means mean faster.

17:20 <Saerydoth> as in, the same CPU at different clock speeds

17:20 <Nuclear> Just like you don't understand how Rambus wasn't that bad.

17:20 <Goatroth> Real-world performance > your bloody math.

17:20 <Cepheid> But it's an average of maximum performance.

17:20 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> I thought that's what ram was for

17:20 <Cepheid> RAM is storage.

17:20 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Unless it's measurement of ram perf- my teachers are wrng then?

17:20 <Finwe> Random Access Memory

17:20 <Saerydoth> 3.2 GHz Intel CPU's (current i5+) outperform AMD FX chips at 5GHz

17:20 <Goatroth> But yeah Rambus was terrible.

17:20 <Goatroth> In every way.

17:20 <Nuclear> The Pentium 4 was just as fast as the AMD offerings back then.

17:20 <Cepheid> It's a longer-term storage of data, compared to the memory directly inside of the CPU die.

17:21 <Nuclear> The only disadvantage was the memory bus was not on-chip yet.

17:21 <Cepheid> Which usually lasts only a few milleseconds at best.

17:21 <Cepheid> RAM is used for storage that might last seconds or longer.

17:21 <Saerydoth> it wasn't even close.  Athlon XP's decimated them

17:21 <Saerydoth> by a HUGE margin

17:21 <Nuclear> They still were using the FSB, well into the Core 2 Quad era.

17:21 <Saerydoth> Athlons were 40% or more faster

17:21 <Goatroth> No. My old AMD Athlon XP 2500+ clocked at 1.8GHz destroyed my aunt's P4 clocked at 2.0GHz, utterly destroyed it.

17:21 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Virtual Reality Applejack Game at Brazilian Comic Con  [ http://tinyurl.com/jbj9dfh ]

17:22 <Finwe> Saerydoth: How does Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1230 V2 @ 3.30GHz perform compared to i5?

17:22 <Cepheid> Ideally, you want frequently-used data stored in the cache or registers, on-CPU memory.  But as it's far more limited and costly to add more of this kind of memory, data is usually stored long-term in volatile RAM.

17:22 <Cepheid> If it needs to be stored even longer, on a disk.

17:22 <Finwe> I seem to have 8 cores.

17:22 <Saerydoth> I'm not sure, what architecture is the E3-1230?

17:22 <Finwe> Probably 4 physical and 8 logical.

17:22 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> My teaachers told me it was the amount of processes per second

17:23 <Cepheid> As for what these loons are discussing, SkippeZ_ShadoW, they are discussing the number of instructions or mathematical operations a CPU can perform per second.  Ideally a higher number translates into better performance.

17:23 <Cepheid> But not always, due to conditions related to the design of the CPU, and the software that runs on it, among other issues.

17:23 <AppleDash> False!

17:23 <Cepheid> I said ideally.

17:23 <Cepheid> Not that it's true.

17:24 <Cepheid> Or always the case.

17:24 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> .... ok i get that at least

17:24 <AppleDash> Clock is not the number of instructions per second. It's the number of clocks it performs per second.

17:24 <AppleDash> There is a separate metric called "instructions per clock"

17:24 <AppleDash> IPC * clock = IPS

17:24 <Saerydoth> I mean what architecture...Core, Core 2?  Snady Bridge, Ivy Bridge

17:24 <Nuclear> I think the long pipeline stages of the Pentium 4.

17:24 <Finwe> Saerydoth: https://ark.intel.com/products/65732/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1230-v2-8M-Cache-3_30-GHz

17:24 <Nuclear> Caused it to stall a lot.

17:24 <AppleDash> Different generations of CPU might have different IPC values

17:24 <Nuclear> Compared to whatever AMD had at the time.

17:24 <Cepheid> AppleDash:  In either IPS or GFLOPS/TFLOPS, it's still an average number.

17:24 <Cepheid> And higher supposedly translates to better in the most ideal conditions.

17:25 <Nuclear> But, both AMD and Intel were definitely capped at 4 DP FLOPS/8 SP FLOPS per clock cycle.

17:25 <Nuclear> fact right there.

17:25 <RazorSharpFang> Finwe: You make me wobble like jelly

17:25 <Finwe> RazorSharpFang: Why?

17:25 <Nuclear> The performance on the Pentium 4 was probably worse because of stalling in the pipeline.

17:25 <Finwe> or how?

17:25 <RazorSharpFang> "Finweboops RazorSharpFang with his ten GTX 1060 graphics cards."

17:25 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> What's the average tflop rate for 4k?

17:25 <Cepheid> Those conditions being "within operating temperature", "running at standard clock speed", "nothing else is stalling the processor for any reason", "all the data being used is in the cache or registers", and "the program was coded very well, and with the smallest possible size.

17:26 <Finwe> RazorSharpFang: They're not for me, they're for the university gaming club.

17:26 <Cepheid> So many conditions to worry about.

17:26 <Nuclear> That led to a lower effective amount of instructions executed from the Pentium 4's ISA as well.

17:26 * RazorSharpFang shruggy-wuggies

17:26 <Saerydoth> 2012 looks like it could be ivy bridge

17:26 <Nuclear> Compared to the AMD Athlons that did not stall as badly, because they didn't have 31-stage pipelines.

17:26 <Cepheid> Also, it's worth noting that some of the performance of a CPU is lost on the OS, which may or may not make the best use of the ISA that it's running on.

17:27 <Nuclear> Even though, those were on later Pentium 4s that had better performance than the older ones.

17:27 <Nuclear> It's weird.

17:27 <Nuclear> Like a paradox.

17:28 <Saerydoth> Finwe: That CPU is based on the Ivy Briidge architecture.  So it is equivalent to the 3000 series Intel CPU's.  Including the clock speed difference, it would be about 15% slower than the 6700k

17:28 <Cepheid> It all comes down to "How good of a programmer are you, and how good are you at abusing the designs of a very specific CPU?"

17:28 <Schism> For no reason, have a gryphon chick.  http://aphexangel.deviantart.com/art/Gabby-644404461

17:28 <Saerydoth> Sandy Bridge - Ivy Bridge - Haswell - Skylake all had only minor improvements each generation

17:29 <Saerydoth> but yeah, the only time you can compare performance just by clock speed is if you take the same CPU at different clock speeds

17:29 <Cepheid> And yet those improvements mean nothing if the developers don't account for the improvements.

17:29 <Saerydoth> obviously if you normally run at 3.5 GHz and you overclock to 4 you'll see some improvement

17:29 <Saerydoth> actually it's really just minor improvements in IPC

17:29 <Saerydoth> most of hte improvements were in the integrated GPU and various heat-effeiciency stuff

17:31 <Cepheid> Which usually just involves fixing bugs in the design of the CPU, fixing issues with interference from all the different lines, criss-crossing a CPU, and shrinking the process used to make the CPU.

17:31 <Cepheid> Along with redesigning how some instructions are performed.

17:31 <Saerydoth> I know someone that upgraded from a 3770k to a 6700k and was like "wow, there's barely any difference"

17:31 <Cepheid> If you can think of a way to reduce the number of cycles it takes to perform a multiply or divide, it'll help.

17:31 *** Joins: HyperDash (HyperDash@Pony-pveddk.wa.comcast.net)

17:31 *** Joins: SniperDash (HyperDash@Pony-pveddk.wa.comcast.net)

17:31 <Saerydoth> 90% of the difference between Sandy Bridge (2000 series) and SKylake (6000 series) is clock speed.  Higher clock speeds made possible by efficiency improvements

17:32 <wobniaR> Dat catbirb Schism

17:35 <Nuclear> I am sure Intel will never be matched again in CPU performance.

17:35 <Cepheid> I disagree.

17:36 <Saerydoth> If AMD delivers what they're promising with Zen they will

17:36 <Saerydoth> but I'm in "wait and see" mode for that

17:36 <Nuclear> They haven't made a single CPU worth buying IMHO since 2009 when the last Opterons that could scale to 8-way without any glue logic appeared on the market.

17:36 <Saerydoth> not buying anything until I see reviews

17:36 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Yáll been talkin' 'bout this for over an hour

17:36 <Nuclear> Now they don't scale past 4.

17:36 <Goatroth> There's a problem with that?

17:36 <Saerydoth> current AMD CPU's are garbage because their IPC is garbage

17:36 <Saerydoth> no other erason

17:37 <Goatroth> We don't all have the attention span of a spastic monkey.

17:37 <Nuclear> It isn't just that. AMD shares ALU units between pairs of cores.

17:37 <Saerydoth> they use a TON of power (3x what Intel CPU's do) for 40% of the performance

17:37 *** Quits: Pi (saxopi@Pony-llr.4pn.146.49.IP) (Quit: Bye)

17:37 <Goatroth> I'm happy with my AMD quad core. :V

17:37 <Nuclear> I believe FPUs as well between pairs of cores.

17:37 <Saerydoth> you mean FPU's.  One FPU is shared among 2 cores

17:37 <Saerydoth> and yes, that severely contributes to their low IPC

17:38 <Saerydoth> the rest is just extremely inefficient design

17:38 <Nuclear> I would rather use a Phenom hexa-core.

17:38 <Cepheid> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLZj6GnrOvo

17:38 <DerpyBot> I need to ask Twilight about that one.

17:38 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about Man punches kangaroo in the face to save dog being strangled

17:38 <Nuclear> Last good consumer chip AMD made, and I think that came out in 2009.

17:38 <Saerydoth> the phenom hex-core is still the best AMD CPU.  Unfortunately it doesn't have the horsepower for modern stuff

17:38 <Goatroth> wat.

17:38 <Goatroth> Says who?

17:38 <Saerydoth> the 1100T was the last realy good CPU AMD made

17:38 <Goatroth> I'm on a Phenom quad core and it can still run modern stuff just fine.

17:38 <Saerydoth> try running a CPU bound game like WOW on max settings

17:38 <Goatroth> Done.

17:38 <Goatroth> Playing it right now.

17:39 <Saerydoth> then swap to Intel and watch your framerate increase by 25 minimum

17:39 <Saerydoth> AMD will be dropping to 20 in situations where Intel can maintain 55

17:39 <Saerydoth> and sometimes 60

17:39 <Nuclear> I don't have a hate for AMD, but they only took what Intel made and tried to make it cheaper. It's obvious they don't care if Intel offers the superior product.

17:39 <Saerydoth> I mean yes you can RUN stuff

17:39 <Goatroth> It would be more accurate to say that it doesn't have the power to max out modern games.

17:39 <Saerydoth> but it won't perform nearly as well as on modern Intel CPU's

17:39 <Nuclear> They only seem to care about competing on price.

17:39 <Goatroth> But I don't really care so much for flying that closely to the sun.

17:40 <Nuclear> Which is the main justification I see for buying AMD. I like their GPUs, though, even though that came from the ATi buyout in 2005.

17:41 * Cepheid sips earl grey tea.

17:41 *** Joins: DashedRainbows (rhg135@Rainbows.Get.Dashed)

17:41 <Goatroth> After their terrible HD 4xxx series and the shader nonsense from around the time they were relevant, I will never buy another AMD GPU.

17:41 *** Quits: rhg135 (rhg135@Rainbows.Get.Dashed) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

17:41 <Goatroth> Even though I hate the anti-competitive behavior coming from nvidia.

17:44 <Nuclear> As much as I have disdain for the crappy drivers on old AMD ATi cards, I really like GCN. It's mainly the CPUs I won't buy new.

17:45 <Nuclear> If I need to, I can write drivers under Linux or modify the open source ones. I shouldn't have to as I expect a complete product, but the option is there.

17:46 <Saerydoth> GCN was great when it first launched.  But AMD fell behind when Nvidia put out the 780ti and they have not been competitive on the super high end since.  They have still not achieved the power efficiency of Maxwell or Pascal either

17:47 <Saerydoth> that said, with GPU's at least, AMD is still very competitive price and performance-wise on the mid-high and high end (just not the enthusiast end)

17:47 <Saerydoth> but they do use more power than Nvidia equivalents

17:48 <Goatroth> My next card will be a 1060 3GB, up from my current 750 Ti.

17:48 <Goatroth> Soon(tm)

17:48 <Saerydoth> my new laptop has a 6700hq and a 1060, and this whole thing manages to run on a 200w power supply

17:48 <Saerydoth> I'm currently running a 980ti, will probably upgrade to 1080ti when it launches (depending on funds of course)

17:48 <Saerydoth> desktop has 6700k and 980ti

17:48 <Goatroth> cpu: AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 925 Processor (x64) at 3.22 GHz (34% Load)

17:49 <Saerydoth> yeah, that is actually better than a lot of the FX processors lol

17:50 <Saerydoth> I want to like AMD again.  I hope Zen is really good.  If for no other reason than it will force Intel to innovate rather than stagnating

17:50 <Saerydoth> and they REALLY need to get their power usage under control, both CPU and GPU

17:51 *** Quits: RazorSharpFang (chatzilla@Pony-gcm2an.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Zzzzz)

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17:54 <Nuclear> How is Intel stagnating? They can only do so much with their consumer line. If you want innovation, look into all the additional features the high-end Xeon E5s and Xeon E7s get. They get the most R&D and allow the lesser chips to trickle down.

17:55 *** Joins: rela (x@Pony-k8u74r.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)

17:57 *** FallenSilent is now known as Fall

17:57 <Nuclear> The best Zen chips will be the Opterons, after all. When AMD finally starts releasing them.

17:57 * Cepheid finishes his tea. "Are ye done yelling about which processor, GPU, etc is better?"

18:02 * Cepheid debates setting up a Factorio server for playing on.

18:04 <Cepheid> It's been around two weeks since I stopped drinking coffee and energy drinks.  I want to punch someone in the face.

18:05 *** Quits: Bastion_2100 (Pony52626@Pony-rnko0o.dynamic.surfer.at) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

18:06 * Cepheid punches Nuclear in the face.

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18:11 <Thelema5> Hello, everypony

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18:11 <Cepheid> Hoi.

18:11 * Electron waves at Thelema5 in greetings

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18:16 <CleverDerpy> hiya

18:17 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Thelema5: yoy

18:18 <Cepheid> How goes it, Thelema5?

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18:21 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> I swear thelema is like the king of this chat

18:21 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Discussion: What Book Would You Give To Equestria to Show the Best of Humanity?!  [ http://tinyurl.com/hr2cnz4 ]

18:22 <Bubs> SkippeZ_ShadoW: nope. that would be Cepheid. Thelema5 comes in fourth: https://unixkitty.com/stats/EquestriaDaily/

18:22 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Thats not what i meant

18:22 <Bubs> :P

18:23 <Thelema5> It's going alright, Cepheid

18:23 <Thelema5> Bubs, take a look at the long stats :p

18:23 <Bubs> oh wait. the long-term stats show something else :

18:23 <Bubs> :)

18:23 <Bubs> https://unixkitty.com/stats/EquestriaDaily/long.html

18:24 <Thelema5> XD

18:24 *** Joins: SkippeZ__ (skippez_sha@Pony-8egvlv.range81-129.btcentralplus.com)

18:24 <Bubs> Thelema5: I just saw that :D

18:24 <Bubs> oh well XD

18:24 *** SkippeZ__ is now known as SkippeZ_MaC

18:24 <Thelema5> SkippeZ_MaC, check out these cool ruins I explored yesterday

18:24 <Thelema5> !link https://youtu.be/Hce5_yRkvEE

18:24 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about Exploring the Abandonded Ruins of the Overlook Hotel | Catskills Hiking | Ulster County, NY

18:25 <Nedemai> lol I make none of the stats

18:25 <SkippeZ_MaC> i see the bearded thumbnail, but right now, i'm doing hw

18:25 <SkippeZ_MaC> sorry

18:25 <Thelema5> ?me shrugs

18:25 <Thelema5> */me

18:26 <SkippeZ_MaC> yeah XD

18:27 * SkippeZ_MaC is listening as well to dj-jo zelda remixes

18:27 <rela> did anyone here play rise of the tomb raider? i have a question

18:27 <CleverDerpy> SkippeZ_MaC, link?

18:29 <SkippeZ_MaC> https://www.youtube.com/user/djJoMusicChannel

18:31 <SkippeZ_MaC> CleverDerpy: he's gut

18:34 *** Joins: Pony|62972 (Pony62972@Pony-rnko0o.dynamic.surfer.at)

18:35 *** Pony|62972 is now known as Bastion_2100

18:35 <SkippeZ_MaC> hi Bastion

18:35 <Bastion_2100> hi

18:35 <Bastion_2100> :)

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18:36 <SkippeZ_MaC> i'm doing homework on some music tech which parts we haven't done yet

18:37 <SkippeZ_MaC> which is the only reason homework is probably still instated

18:41 <SkippeZ_MaC> damn, why so quiet now we've come off a topic not many understand

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18:43 *** Quits: The_Nostalgia_Mare (Nossy@Pony-o51fco.brpm.oqg9.0342.2601.IP) (Quit: I do talk but I nom. o3o)

18:43 <Cepheid> Screw the uneducated!

18:44 <SkippeZ_MaC> Cepheid: that's harsh, why not educate them?

18:44 *** Quits: Bastion_2100 (Pony62972@Pony-rnko0o.dynamic.surfer.at) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

18:44 <Cepheid> Because tuition is expensive.

18:44 <SkippeZ_MaC> i mean this is the place i learned hexadecimal

18:44 <SkippeZ_MaC> wait wht?

18:45 *** Joins: Coco_Pommel (coco@Pony-n22tpd.ma.comcast.net)

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18:49 * SkippeZ_MaC yawns

18:50 <SkippeZ_MaC> i need to finish my oc redo sometime

18:56 *** Joins: WildSoft (WildSoft@Pony-v6r7cp.bredband.comhem.se)

18:58 <Cepheid> So, basically, I have to be careful with running my games.  Apparently my GPU's core is overheating and the fans and such aren't enough to keep it from causing pixel errors.

18:58 <SkippeZ_MaC> ... clean the ans?

18:58 <SkippeZ_MaC> fans?

18:58 <Electron> Go on, SkippeZ_MaC.

18:58 * SkippeZ_MaC looks at Electron, slightly confused

18:59 <Cepheid> Not good enough.  The core itself is accruing too much internal heat, from the looks of things.  It's just too much to run a game at 4k resolution on this thing.

18:59 <Electron> Did you finish your homework?

18:59 <SkippeZ_MaC> no

18:59 <Cepheid> Get back to work!  Drop and give me answers to 20 math questions!

19:00 <SkippeZ_MaC> ... i'm doing music tech

19:00 <Electron> What do you mean by "tech"?

19:00 <SkippeZ_MaC> technology... isn't that obvious?

19:01 <Electron> Okay, what do you need to do then?

19:01 <SkippeZ_MaC> i'm meant to do an advertising brochure for audio editing... like noise gates, ADSR mormalising ec

19:02 * Cepheid flails his arm. "EXCUSES! You'll do MATH! Like a human being! AND YOU'LL LIKE IT! YA HEAR ME!?"

19:02 <Cepheid> Now what is the square root of -1!?

19:03 <SkippeZ_MaC> ... the hypotenuse of a triangle of two side lengths 6 and 5

19:03 <SkippeZ_MaC> 5 squared plus 6 squared is c squared

19:03 * Cepheid strikes with the ruler.

19:03 <SkippeZ_MaC> 25 +30 = c squared = 55

19:04 <Cepheid> I like how stealing a cabbage from a barrel is wrong in Skyrim.  But stealing a cabbage directly from the ground.  On farmland?  Not a crime.

19:04 <SkippeZ_MaC> square root of 55 is 7.42

19:04 * Electron trims SkippeZ_MaC's low frequencies at 100 and higher

19:04 <SkippeZ_MaC> square root of minus one i believe... can't be done?

19:04 <Electron> It can.

19:05 <Schism> Certainly, that's called 'i'.

19:05 <Cepheid> Aye.  It's "i"

19:05 <SkippeZ_MaC> oh... google says error XD

19:05 <Cepheid> Imaginary numbers.

19:05 <Cepheid> Yeah, Google will say an error, as will most calculators.

19:05 <SkippeZ_MaC> algebruh

19:06 <Schism> Cepheid: And of course, see, if you steal it from the ground, it'll grow back in 3 days, where if you steal it from a barrel, next time you wander by it might have been replaced by a carrot or a dagger.

19:06 *** Quits: matttheshadowman (mattthesha@the.shadowy.corners) (Quit: I will return to the shadows)

19:06 *** Joins: matttheshadowman (mattthesha@the.shadowy.corners)

19:07 <Cepheid> I need to loot some places.

19:07 <Cepheid> Need 5k for a home.

19:07 <SkippeZ_MaC> i'm alright at mths

19:07 <Cepheid> Or more if I want one of the other homes.

19:07 <SkippeZ_MaC> maths

19:08 *** Joins: Mudwise (Mudwise@Pony-r77v7c.ut.comcast.net)

19:08 <SkippeZ_MaC> for year 10

19:09 <Cepheid> "You're kinda fuzzy.  What's wrong with ya?"  *Is a Kittyperson.*

19:09 <Mudwise> sup everyone?

19:09 <SkippeZ_MaC> eyo

19:09 <SkippeZ_MaC> Cephied, provide me with maths

19:09 <Electron> Hey.

19:09 <SkippeZ_MaC> dangit not the i's and e's

19:09 <Mudwise> how's it going?

19:09 <Cepheid> Differential of 2x^2

19:09 <SkippeZ_MaC> doing homework

19:10 <Mudwise> imaginary electrons? that's what i think of when I see 'i' and 'e'

19:10 <SkippeZ_MaC> Cepheid: differential?

19:10 <Cepheid> You're going to hate calculus.

19:11 *** Electron is now known as |-e|

19:11 * |-e| ±

19:11 <Cepheid> That guy died from getting an arrow to the knuckle.

19:11 <Mudwise> oh the differential of 2x^2 is 4x

19:12 <SkippeZ_MaC> oh... that easy?

19:12 <Mudwise> you take the power and multiply it by the multiplier of x

19:12 <SkippeZ_MaC> 3x(power of) 3 is 9x

19:12 <SkippeZ_MaC> etc

19:13 <Schism> Cepheid: I gather you've gotten to that point in the Companions questline, then?

19:13 <Mudwise> well it gets harder when you deal with multiples of powers being added/subtracted or dealing with sine cosine and tangents but...

19:14 <SkippeZ_MaC> we haven't gone onto sine stuff in maths

19:14 <Mudwise> it's been a few years since I did calculus and calculus 2 though

19:14 <Cepheid> I haven't even started the Companions questline.  I plan to though.

19:14 <|-e|> Let's do this.

19:15 <SkippeZ_MaC> i mean i get how to calculate longest sides of triangles... a=uuuh, what else

19:15 <Mudwise> so for example you have say 6x^5 + (4/7) x^3 + 8

19:15 <SkippeZ_MaC> no idea

19:16 <Cepheid> If you're wondering what it all results in..

19:16 <Mudwise> it becomes 30x^4 + (12/7)x^2 and you loose the constant

19:16 <Cepheid> The differential of a function results in a new function that describes the instantaneous rate of change of the original function.

19:18 <Mudwise> like i said it has been a while since I've done calculus so there are things that are a little dusty and almost forgotten... but if i make a quick study out of my old calc book I'm sure it'll all come back to me.

19:18 <SkippeZ_MaC> i just wanna get cars

19:18 <Cepheid> I fortunately get out of having to take integral calc in university.

19:18 <|-e|> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCIK1FEpc5g

19:18 <DerpyBot> I need to ask Twilight about that one.

19:18 <Cepheid> Which I'm thankful for.

19:18 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about Come Alive (NekoWolf Remix) ft. Odyssey - SilvaHound

19:19 <SkippeZ_MaC> that thumbnail art seems nice

19:19 <Cepheid> So, who should I murder in Skyrim, and why?  Heimskr is already dead.

19:19 <SkippeZ_MaC> a child.... just try (without mods)

19:19 <Mudwise> you part of the assassin's guild Cepheid ?

19:19 <Cepheid> Besides a child, which is mysteriously invulnerable.  And no, not yet.

19:20 <Mudwise> then I'd say do a guard.

19:20 <Cepheid> I just killed Ulfr the Blind.

19:21 <Mudwise> just make sure you completed the quest before you kill any important character

19:21 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Projector "GoGlow" With Cute Rainbow Dash Appears at Argos  [ http://tinyurl.com/jsnr45t ]

19:21 <Cepheid> If that happens I'll just Deal With It(TM)

19:22 <SkippeZ_MaC> i just want at least two cars from most sect's of VW

19:23 <SkippeZ_MaC> with a couple exceptions

19:24 <Cepheid> I should boost the difficulty, and use a follower.

19:24 * |-e| [ ·—·]

19:25 <SkippeZ_MaC> people talk about gigahertz and computer stuff i don't understand yet for hours, but then i bring up cars or something "nah nah nah, drop the subject"

19:26 <Mudwise> well i guess most don't know much about cars so...

19:27 <wobniaR> I know cars go zroom

19:28 <SkippeZ_MaC> hmm... like y'all don't know what engines have in em?

19:28 <wobniaR> Metal parts and sorcery

19:28 <Mudwise> oil, gasoline, antifreeze right?

19:28 <Mudwise> oh and spark plugs

19:28 <SkippeZ_MaC> ... pistons, not always spark plugs

19:29 <SkippeZ_MaC> diesels don't need em

19:29 <|-e|> They have something Trixie dislikes very much.

19:29 <Schism> Well, this is kind of cute.  Who hasn't wanted a redstone block of their very own?  http://www.argos.co.uk/product/6110554?rec=webRespPDP:5652642:alt:CWVTPUBOOT:6110554

19:29 *** Joins: Thy (uid63062@Pony-tnlo2b.richmond.irccloud.com)

19:29 * |-e| whispers: "Wheels."

19:30 <wobniaR> That is a cute Dashie figure and cool light things from argod

19:30 <Mudwise> oh timing belt (granted that's not in the engine but still)

19:30 <wobniaR> I'd buy one if i had a good place to put it

19:30 <SkippeZ_MaC> yes but suspension, tires, rims, brakes etc

19:30 <SkippeZ_MaC> dnag is this not known?

19:31 *** Quits: rela (x@Pony-k8u74r.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving)

19:32 <Mudwise> well don't forget the alternator, starter, waterpump, heater core, radiator, radiator fan, and battery

19:32 <wobniaR> Yes not all of us spend a significant amount of time with cars

19:32 <SkippeZ_MaC> there we go

19:32 <Mudwise> I've had to replace each and every one of those

19:32 <SkippeZ_MaC> yes... but like brakes?

19:32 <wobniaR> The integral parts and working of cars is not common knowledge

19:32 * SkippeZ_MaC sighs

19:32 <Mudwise> yup

19:32 <wobniaR> People know the steering wheel steels, one pedal means go fast, other means slow down

19:33 <wobniaR> Steers"

19:33 <Mudwise> I also had changed my own oil. But I know some things about cars but not a ton.

19:33 <|-e|> I know cars is no good for our air. That's all.

19:33 <SkippeZ_MaC> but lik- don't give me that

19:34 <SkippeZ_MaC> have you seen the damage finting the lithium for electric cars does?

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19:34 *** Quits: Reia_Away (chatzilla@TheCowPony) (Connection closed)

19:37 <SkippeZ_MaC> https://img.ifcdn.com/images/9e58476f989379d19a9ddfca96f2602e657cf1630e52ebec3902aaf407663be4_1.jpg

19:37 <SkippeZ_MaC> besides, scientists have said if we keep going with the way emissions are nowadays, the ozone will repair in 3 years

19:38 <SkippeZ_MaC> don't ask me to prove that

19:39 <Mudwise> we stopped producing floralcarbons into the atmosphere and that's what was eating the ozone the most.

19:39 <SkippeZ_MaC> what was that from?

19:40 *** Joins: Reia_Away (chatzilla@Pony-9ms1k5.ipv6.telus.net)

19:40 <SkippeZ_MaC> the floracarbons i mean?

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19:41 *** unicodingunicorn is now known as Pony_1306

19:43 <Cepheid> Heimskr's corpse is missing.  Guess someone realized he was finally dead.

19:43 <Mudwise> sorry it was clorofloralcarbons not floralcarbons

19:43 <CleverDerpy> derp?

19:43 <SkippeZ_MaC> i was gonna say, as they're made of just flourine and carbon

19:43 <|-e|> Derp.

19:43 <SkippeZ_MaC> CleverDerpy!

19:44 <Mudwise> they were used in refrigerants and flame retardent stuff

19:44 <SkippeZ_MaC> oooh

19:44 <CleverDerpy> you shouldn't use the R word, soccer moms don't like it...

19:44 <SkippeZ_MaC> Maethew i swe-a too gawd

19:45 <CleverDerpy> the heck?

19:45 *** Quits: Pony_1306 (unicodingun@Pony-rkqh3n.n4ri.ljqb.e800.2404.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

19:46 <SkippeZ_MaC> don't worry, i's a reference to soccer moms

19:46 <Mudwise> a retardant is something that prevents or inhibits something.

19:46 <Goatroth> So... about those new Intel CPUs: http://alexanderhiggins.com/new-intel-cpus-come-powerful-built-secret-hidden-backdoor/

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19:46 <SkippeZ_MaC> retardation is the act of slowing down, or well, what muddy said

19:48 <Schism> Goatroth: Fun fun fun.  Glad I stick with AMD.

19:48 <Goatroth> Mm.

19:49 <CleverDerpy> I have AMD too

19:49 <Mudwise> surprisingly I have no problem with this...

19:49 <Schism> This is far from the first time that such a backdoor has been implemented in processors.  It was hitherto proposed in a number of PCs, but the idea was ostensibly scrapped after public backlash.

19:51 <Schism> Every couple of years, though, the really bad ideas come back for another go.

19:51 <Coco_Pommel> AMT is only a feature on Intel Centrino with vPro or Intel Core2 with vPro, no other proseesorsers have it

19:53 <SkippeZ_MaC> KooK is like the only other one who takes particular interest in caws

19:53 <SkippeZ_MaC> why i'm still on this subject? idk

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19:55 <Schism> Further notes regarding AMT and attempts to decrypt the service (albeit from back in June - there may be more recent progress) can be found here.  https://boingboing.net/2016/06/15/intel-x86-processors-ship-with.html

19:55 *** Quits: Mudwise (Mudwise@Pony-r77v7c.ut.comcast.net) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

19:56 <Cepheid> How can you serve me, Lydia?  By being a pack mule.

19:57 <SkippeZ_MaC> wha-?

19:57 <Schism> That's pretty much all anyone does with Lydia, isn't it?

19:57 <Cepheid> Well, she acts as a distraction for me as well.

19:57 <Cepheid> Since I use range and all.

19:58 <Schism> Personally, my favourite helper has always been Aela.

19:58 <Schism> Though Mjoll the Lioness runs a close second.

19:59 <Schism> She's probably not much of a choice for you this time around, though, Cepheid.

20:00 <SkippeZ_MaC> wait is Lydia in the game?

20:00 <Schism> Skyrim?  Of course.  She's the housecarl for Breezehome.

20:00 <SkippeZ_MaC> o-oh, ithought you meant someone on this chat

20:01 *** Joins: iandroid (ian@Pony-3jmmdb.dynamic.tds.net)

20:01 <SkippeZ_MaC> oh. l u m i n d i a

20:01 <iandroid> Hello everypony

20:01 <SkippeZ_MaC> allo beutifo'

20:01 <iandroid> My my~

20:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: EQLA Registration Opens! [ http://tinyurl.com/h9wwrf3 ]

20:01 <SkippeZ_MaC> XD

20:03 <iandroid> I haven't been following the fandom since the hiatus started, anything fun happening these days? Cool songs, videos, fanfic?

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20:04 <Thelema5> Hey there, iandroid

20:04 <Schism> Well, I'm not sure if Michelle Creber and Blackgryph0n have thrown anything on the internet of late.  Their old stuff remains fantastic, of course.

20:04 <SkippeZ_MaC> idk, i - thelema now you pipe up? XD

20:04 <iandroid> And is the plural fanfic or fanfics?

20:04 <Thelema5> I haven't really been following the fandom stuff for a while

20:04 <|-e|> Hey, iandroid.

20:04 <SkippeZ_MaC> i haven't watched all of season 6

20:04 <iandroid> Hi e

20:04 <Schism> Either works for a  plural, iandroid.

20:05 *** Quits: DashedRainbows (rhg135@Rainbows.Get.Dashed) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

20:05 <Schism> I personally use 'works of fanfiction' or 'fanfics'.

20:05 <Thelema5> SkippeZ_MaC, you should finish the season... the finale was tres cool

20:05 <iandroid> Yeah, the whole season was pretty top class IMO

20:05 *** Joins: FedoraMane (Ponies@Nopony.Important)

20:05 <iandroid> Though I know opinions differ

20:05 <SkippeZ_MaC> i know there's chrys

20:06 <Thelema5> Overall the season fell a little flat for me.

20:06 <iandroid> There's somepony great and powerful

20:06 <SkippeZ_MaC> oooo

20:06 <iandroid> Not telling who

20:06 * |-e| knows

20:06 <Thelema5> :p

20:07 * SkippeZ_MaC likes poiple magic hats

20:07 *** Joins: Librarian (Librarian@Pony-rcg.a1p.207.187.IP)

20:07 <|-e|> I liked her for SOME reason.

20:07 <Schism> Hah.  "All fish live in the sea.  Sharks live in the sea.  Therefore, sharks are fish."

20:07 <|-e|> So weird.

20:07 *** Quits: Nicktendonick (Nicktendoni@Pony-77jca1.res.bhn.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

20:07 *** Joins: Reia (Reia@TheCowPony)

20:07 <iandroid> The characters in the finale were all well written

20:07 <iandroid> I liked even the ones I traditionally don't

20:08 *** Joins: SunsetShimmer (DJPon3IsHer@Pony-hb2iv0.threembb.co.uk)

20:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SunsetShimmer

20:08 * Schism welcomes SunsetShimmer to the chat with a cheese and pickle sandwich on toasted rye.

20:09 *** Quits: rhg135 (rhg135@Rainbows.Get.Dashed) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

20:09 * |-e| offers iandroid his bitter chocolate bar

20:09 <iandroid> Mmm, I haven't had dark chocolate in ages

20:10 <wobniaR> Yes welcome back to the internet

20:10 * Cepheid sneakshots some bandits. When all of a sudden, GIANT FREAKING DRAGON.

20:11 <Schism> Are you running baseline Skyrim, Cephy?

20:11 *** Joins: Gladiolus (Corey@hugbat.is.hugging.you)

20:11 <Cepheid> Yes.

20:11 <Cepheid> With exception to Sky UI.

20:11 <Schism> Well, of course, SkyUI is required.

20:11 * Schism puts Gladiolus in the Good Bat Bucket. With some clementine oranges.

20:11 * SkippeZ_MaC is red

20:12 * Gladiolus hugs Eventide in the bucket and boops Schism

20:12 *** Quits: SkippeZ_MaC (skippez_sha@Pony-8egvlv.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: )

20:12 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Boop, i'm back here now, homework done

20:12 * Librarian spinns around the base

20:12 <Librarian> owo

20:12 <Schism> Cepheid: the Dragon Combat Overhaul is worth your time if you decide to use it.  Turns the dragons into an actual threat.  And causes them to appear in PACKS.

20:13 <Librarian> my vita brokee

20:13 <iandroid> Thelema5: I think the biggest problem with this season is the hype is dying down

20:13 <Schism> Or... hmm.  Is it a flock of dragons?

20:13 <iandroid> I miss the excitement of the early days

20:13 * Gladiolus hugs Librarian

20:13 <Schism> A murder of dragons?  A clan of dragons?  A dragoon?

20:13 <Librarian> a wisdom i once heard

20:14 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> The owo's back

20:14 <Schism> Oh!  A conflagration of dragons.  There we go.

20:14 <Librarian> dont remember were

20:14 <Librarian> yeah that

20:17 *** Joins: Pony_27863 (Surreal_Nig@Pony-u35t3g.sub-70-197-89.myvzw.com)

20:17 * Eventide bites Gladiolus

20:17 * Gladiolus is bit

20:18 * Gladiolus tastes like mango

20:18 <Schism> Cepheid: I must also suggest the Apocalypse spell mod, which is a fantastic expansion to the spells you'll encounter.

20:20 *** Quits: Filly_Nightmares (Surreal_Nig@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

20:21 <Schism> If only because you're sticking with the Illusion pool, and it expands that to a pretty spectacular degree.

20:22 * |-e| plays with Gladiolus' ear

20:23 * Gladiolus has floof ear

20:23 <Schism> !link batpony floof

20:23 <DerpyBot> Twilight says she doesn't have anything in the library about that

20:24 *** Quits: Librarian (Librarian@Pony-rcg.a1p.207.187.IP) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

20:25 <Cepheid> I'd like to complete the game in vanilla mode, first.  That said, I took a shower and decided on a course of action for the dragon issue.

20:25 * Cepheid takes the money he saved for a house, uses it to buy Lydia a bow, and then goes to enchant his own bow.

20:25 *** Quits: Val (Val@Val.Is.Not.A.Clever.Poni) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

20:25 * Pony_27863 noms Schism and floofles.

20:25 * Schism is a changeling. And is not floofy. :<

20:25 *** Pony_27863 is now known as Filly_Nightmares

20:26 <Schism> Cepheid: Are you going to rush through the main questline?

20:26 *** Joins: Librarian (Librarian@Pony-rcg.a1p.207.187.IP)

20:26 <Cepheid> Nah.

20:26 * Filly_Nightmares is a floofy changeling. Is changeling batpone

20:26 <Cepheid> Taking my time.

20:26 * Filly_Nightmares latches onto Papa Gladiolus' head.

20:26 <Gladiolus> o3o

20:27 <Schism> Reasonable enough.  Going to wander over to Solsteim before you take down the lead dragon?

20:27 *** Joins: Golden (Golden@Pony-0bbtn5.co.comcast.net)

20:27 <Cepheid> Given I've never gotten very far in the game, I have no idea how I plan to do this.

20:27 <Schism> Heh, I gather you keep getting distracted by the 60,000 other things to do?

20:27 <Cepheid> All I know is... Lydia, here's my bow.  I'ma use this Orcish Bow I just bought.

20:28 <Cepheid> Lucia, leave me alone, I have no time for horrid little children and I hope a dragon eats you.

20:29 <Cepheid> Hmm, what type of damage?  I got Shock, Frost and Magicka.

20:30 <Cepheid> And 'cause Grand Soul Gem, 87 charges.

20:30 <Schism> Hrmm.  Of the three, I'd go with Shock, but frankly I'm surprised you're not going with a Soul Bind enchantment.

20:30 <Cepheid> I don't have Soul Bind yet.  And this is more a temporary solution to a problem.

20:31 <Schism> Then yeah, definitely Shock.  It might not be much good against dragons, but depleting Stamina is usually a good choice against a lot of foes.

20:32 <Cepheid> That's Frost.

20:32 <Schism> Oh right.  Shock just stuns?  Still useful...

20:32 <Cepheid> Shock does N damage + N/2 damage as magicka.

20:32 *** Joins: Val (Val@Pony-r3356v.dynamic.chello.pl)

20:32 <Schism> Ah, of course.  Hrmm.  Disabling mages is of the good.  And you know you're going to run into quite a lot of vampires.

20:33 <wobniaR> I prefer the bow mysepf

20:33 *** Joins: inu (inu@Pony-8r1770.il.comcast.net)

20:33 <Schism> wobniaR: Yeah, Cephy's enchanting a bow.  :P

20:34 <Cepheid> +12 damage with shock.  It'll have to suffice.  It'll definitely hurt more at least.

20:34 <Schism> By the way, Cepheid, make absolutely certain that you stock up on skeever hides, tarn feathers, hawk feathers, mudcrab chitins, and vampire dust.

20:35 <Cepheid> Heh.

20:35 <Cepheid> Oooh, foxen.  *Follows*

20:35 <|-e|> http://imgur.com/gallery/Yx2r4

20:35 <Schism> Or of course, you can murder the Silver Hand in order to get those vampirism-removing potions.

20:36 <Schism> Electron: But of course, how could we not recall those?  Cleaning them out was always a bit of a chore...

20:36 *** Quits: chameleon215 (chameleon21@Pony-ub39c4.sub-70-198-1.myvzw.com) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

20:36 <|-e|> Yeah...

20:36 <wobniaR> I wiped out vampires pretty effectively without anything special

20:37 <wobniaR> Sneak bow attacks at a high enough level takes pretty much anything out

20:37 <Schism> wobniaR: Oh, it's mostly just that they'd sneak up and infect you and you'd need either an altar or a potion of Cure Disease within 3 days.

20:37 *** Joins: Nicktendonick (Nicktendoni@Pony-77jca1.res.bhn.net)

20:37 <Cepheid> Interesting.

20:37 <Cepheid> The dragon spawned like last time, but...

20:37 <wobniaR> I never got snuck up on by vampires through the whole dlc

20:37 <Cepheid> It's gone?  Did it not see me?

20:38 *** Quits: LogicMatrix (LogicMatrix@Pony-5qp7nf.res.rr.com) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

20:38 <wobniaR> I did do the dawnguard stuff at like level 50 tho

20:38 <wobniaR> So max archey and sneak

20:38 * SkippeZ_ShadoW yawns

20:38 <Schism> Cepheid: Sometimes they'll just fly overhead, roar, and wander off.  You can tell which is going on by the combat music, or lack thereof.

20:39 <Schism> Pretty sure that dragon in particular is just Alduin trolling you.

20:39 <wobniaR> You can bring them down if you have that endgame shout

20:39 <wobniaR> Forgot what it's called

20:39 <wobniaR> Then dragons are easy pickings cause they can't stall in the air forever

20:39 <Gladiolus> Hugs!

20:39 * Gladiolus hugs wobniaR

20:39 <Cepheid> I should probably hook up my headphones.  Good as this TV is, it's speakers aren't the best.  Never are with the setup I have.

20:39 <Schism> Dragonrend.

20:39 <wobniaR> Yes that

20:40 * wobniaR shares the hugs with SunsetShimmer who needs them more

20:40 * Schism hugs the SunsetShimmer too?

20:40 <wobniaR> No good internet until december 16th, a tragedy

20:40 * SunsetShimmer hugs both. o.o

20:40 <SunsetShimmer> Yeah, using mobile tonight. xD

20:41 <Schism> wobniaR: I particularly like the words for that shout.  Mortal, Finite, Temporary.

20:41 <SunsetShimmer> Also running low on electric...good thing laptop is charged I gueeess

20:41 * Gladiolus snugs SunsetShimmer

20:41 *** Quits: Librarian (Librarian@Pony-rcg.a1p.207.187.IP) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

20:41 <Schism> SunsetShimmer, eeee... that's really really unpleasant.

20:41 <SunsetShimmer> It's like living in FNAF, lol

20:41 <wobniaR> I hear bat ponies like the dark

20:41 <wobniaR> That's a plus

20:42 <Cepheid> ... How, exacty, do I steal a horse that belonged to bandits?  How is it theft?

20:42 <Schism> At least if the bounty is small enough, you can powerlevel Speech by telling guards that it's not worth their time.

20:43 <Cepheid> Hey Lydia, here.  Orcish Axe for y.

20:44 <inu> hello

20:44 * Gladiolus hugs inu

20:44 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Hi shimmy-shammy

20:44 <Schism> Cepheid: http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=012312

20:44 <Cepheid> Heh.

20:44 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-m8lg0k.mi.comcast.net)

20:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ADragonDreaming

20:50 <Schism> Also, Cepheid, I suggest you make sure you do Solstheim and Dragonborn the moment they become available.  Otherwise, Miraak will begin to really, really piss you off.

20:52 * SunsetShimmer boops a SkippeZ_ShadoW

20:52 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Yaaaa

20:53 <Cepheid> Right.

20:53 <Cepheid> I'll take that into advisement.  *Promptly ignores advice.*

20:53 *** Joins: Starwatcher (patrick@off)

20:54 * Starwatcher looks for somepony who wants a hug

20:54 * SkippeZ_ShadoW volounteers as tribute

20:54 *** Quits: inu (inu@Pony-8r1770.il.comcast.net) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

20:55 <Schism> Well, okay, the other reason I suggest you do it is because Apocrypha is an awesome, awesome series of dungeons.

20:58 * Starwatcher hugs SkippeZ_ShadoW warmly

20:58 <Starwatcher> hi

20:58 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Yoy *

20:59 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> It is hug day?

20:59 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Have you noticed how democracy is completely at risk here?

21:00 *** Quits: Nedemai (Nedemai@fluttershy.is.best.pony) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

21:01 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Not with hugs but...

21:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff (Art Compilation) #2098 [ http://tinyurl.com/zr7mtdj ]

21:02 * Cepheid adds the DLC to the growing list of stuff to do at Schism's pestering. It's after "Learn to survive on Expert" and "Find a dragon slaying weapon."

21:03 <Starwatcher> mrr?

21:04 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Well, Hillary wanted the recall and lost even if she said that everyone should accept the vote, and theresa may wants to work around us getting back into EU, even tho that isn't what we voted for

21:04 <Cepheid> Thank you, Lydia, for setting off that trap.

21:04 <Starwatcher> scary.

21:10 <Cepheid> Huzzah vampire attack!

21:10 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> ... *sighhhh*

21:17 *** Joins: DashedRainbows (rhg135@Rainbows.Get.Dashed)

21:17 *** Quits: matttheshadowman (mattthesha@the.shadowy.corners) (Quit: I will return to the shadows)

21:18 *** Joins: matttheshadowman (mattthesha@the.shadowy.corners)

21:19 *** Quits: FedoraMane (Ponies@Nopony.Important) (Connection closed)

21:19 <matttheshadowman> SkippeZ_ShadoW Almost like to those in power democracy is an inconvience

21:19 *** Joins: FedoraMane (Ponies@Nopony.Important)

21:21 <SkippeZ_ShadoW> Wll it is... because they're internally toddler tantrums

21:23 <Cepheid> Finally, enough money for the house.

21:29 *** Quits: Nicktendonick (Nicktendoni@Pony-77jca1.res.bhn.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

21:30 * Gladiolus hugs |-e| here too.

21:30 <SunsetShimmer> Can I add that, even if democracy has opened up a new state of fresh hell, this is not really the chat to get too in-depth with politically flavored conversation.

21:32 <Gladiolus> The UK has a chance to reverse brexit, which is nice, but the US is stuck with Trump for 4 years, period. lel

21:33 *** Quits: DashedRainbows (rhg135@Rainbows.Get.Dashed) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

21:34 *** Joins: DashedRainbows (rhg135@Rainbows.Get.Dashed)

21:34 <Coco_Pommel> nah, we'll have president Pence within a year, not that its any better...

21:35 <Gladiolus> That's probably worse. Trump acts on whim and is an idiot, although a gifted conman. Pence is legit evil.

21:35 <Gladiolus> I've been pondering if NASA could somehow coax Trump into doubling the budget, but since he's going to cut their planetary sciences budget to 0 welp.

21:36 <Gladiolus> earth sciences i mean

21:36 *** Quits: Reia (Reia@TheCowPony) (Quit: Bye)

21:39 <Thelema5> Pence at least has a smidgen of political decorum.  Trump is going to get the US in an impossible knot of international affairs because he really doesn't understand the protocol, ie. accepting a call from Tsai Ing-wen

21:44 <Gladiolus> Trump is like, a good example of a master of one trade and a jack of none. He's a /very/ good conman, and nothing else.

21:44 * |-e| hovers around quetly

21:44 *** Quits: Starwatcher (patrick@off) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

21:45 * Gladiolus orbits |-e|

21:45 *** Joins: KooK (KooK@Pony-t2bvrf.client.mchsi.com)

21:46 *** Joins: Starwatcher (patrick@off)

21:46 * Gladiolus hugs Starlight

21:46 * Gladiolus hugs Starwatcher

21:46 <|-e|> Is fine.

21:52 * Filly_Nightmares chews on Gladiolus

21:52 * Gladiolus tastes of mango

21:52 * Filly_Nightmares wears |-e| as a hat.

21:52 <iandroid> Thelema5: actually I think that was a pretty calculated move

21:53 * Filly_Nightmares has Level 9999 strange hat

21:53 * Filly_Nightmares has unusual hat too

21:53 *** Quits: KooK (KooK@Pony-t2bvrf.client.mchsi.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

21:53 * |-e| blinks fast at Filly_Nightmares

21:53 <iandroid> And I'm in favor of improving our relationship with Taiwan

21:54 <iandroid> The most progressive, democratic nation in Asia

21:54 <Cepheid> I am so sorry, Riverwood, but this must be done.

21:54 * Filly_Nightmares chews on |-e|

21:55 *** Joins: KooK (KooK@Pony-t2bvrf.client.mchsi.com)

21:55 <|-e|> Please, don't eat me!

21:56 *** Joins: CocoPommel (Coco@kind.hearted.earth.pone)

21:56 * iandroid hugs CocoPommel

21:57 *** Quits: SunsetShimmer (DJPon3IsHer@DJ.Wub.Wub) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

21:57 <Cepheid> That's it, Lydia.  Distract the dragon while I shoot it in the back!

22:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: More 3D Animated Pony Toys in a Target Ad [ http://tinyurl.com/jbr54do ]

22:02 *** Quits: KooK (KooK@Pony-t2bvrf.client.mchsi.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

22:02 *** Joins: SunsetShimmer (DJPon3IsHer@Pony-vi1ete.threembb.co.uk)

22:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SunsetShimmer

22:02 *** Quits: CocoPommel (Coco@kind.hearted.earth.pone) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

22:04 *** Quits: Starwatcher (patrick@off) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

22:05 *** Quits: Double (double@Pony-40o5q9.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)

22:05 *** Joins: CocoPommel (Coco@kind.hearted.earth.pone)

22:07 *** Joins: HyperDash (HyperDash@Pony-pveddk.wa.comcast.net)

22:07 *** Joins: SniperDash (HyperDash@Pony-pveddk.wa.comcast.net)

22:07 <CocoPommel> Hi

22:09 * |-e| waves at CocoPommel in greetings

22:10 <Cepheid> Well, my Speech skill is slowly getting up there.

22:10 *** Quits: FloppyChiptunes (maxmontezum@Pony-8aibc3.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Quit: Put your Kitsune UP!)

22:10 *** Quits: SkippeZ_ShadoW (SmallSkippe@Pony-8egvlv.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

22:11 <Cepheid> Followers are stupid.  Lydia just managed to drain her health by repeatedly walking into a boulder.

22:11 *** Quits: Iks (Deggl@Pony-pm2.q4n.211.95.IP) (Connection closed)

22:16 * DerpyFIM4 needs to stop leaving IRC open

22:21 *** Quits: ThatAnonPony (Pony85475@Pony-i454b4.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)

22:31 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Livestream Sundays and Drawfriend [ http://tinyurl.com/z7ylon9 ]

22:31 <Cepheid> Mmm, venison

22:32 *** Joins: Cyan_Spark (scintillae@sparks.only.last.so.long)

22:40 * Filly_Nightmares noses Cepheid

22:45 * Cepheid noses back.

22:46 * Filly_Nightmares noms Cepheid's nose.

22:49 * Schism returns from the grocer's, with milk, bread, and soda. Also some chocolate-covered pretzel twists.

22:50 * DerpyFIM4 eats the chocolate-covered pretzel twists

22:50 * Schism bwars!

22:51 <Thelema5> Venison is okay; unless it's farm raised it's usually pretty dry

22:51 <Thelema5> Fat = good

22:51 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-m8lg0k.mi.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

22:52 *** Joins: hawthornbunny (hawthorn@Pony-her.q0r.147.195.IP)

22:53 <Schism> Fat's where all the flavour is.  o3o

22:55 <SunsetShimmer> o3o

22:56 * Schism boops SunsetShimmer with some of these chocolate-covered pretzels.

22:56 *** Joins: Nedemai (Nedemai@fluttershy.is.best.pony)

22:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +h Nedemai

22:56 <SunsetShimmer> Omnomnom

22:56 *** Joins: The_Nostalgia_Mare (Nossy@Pony-o51fco.brpm.oqg9.0342.2601.IP)

22:57 <iandroid> Gladiolus: boop

22:57 <Gladiolus> .3.

22:58 * Schism then cooks up some turkey pies. Also, has a banana, because banana.

22:58 <Schism> And because a peanut butter, banana and miracle whip sandwich sounds like a thing to have.

22:59 <Cepheid> Swindler's Den cleared out of enemies.  All their gear was sold(Except for that flaming axe, I gave that to Lydia.)  Now onto looting everything I can.

22:59 <Gladiolus> whyboop

22:59 <iandroid> No raisin

22:59 *** Quits: The_Nostalgia_Mare (Nossy@Pony-o51fco.brpm.oqg9.0342.2601.IP) (Quit: I do talk but I nom. o3o)

22:59 <iandroid> Gladiolus: Although I asked earlier if you'd read Rendezvous with Rama

23:00 <Schism> Cepheid: Ah, always a fun little area.  Oh, and I suggest looking for the Halted Stream camp, it has a particularly useful spellbook.

23:00 <Gladiolus> i have not

23:00 <Schism> Oh man, I haven't read that book in decades.  I should find a new copy.

23:01 <Schism> The Rama series is of course superb, as you'd expect from Arthur C. Clarke.  

23:01 <Cepheid> Already found and destroyed everything there, Schism.  I got the book too.

23:01 <Schism> Excellent.  Always good to have a source of iron, silver and gold!

23:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Comic: Dreams / Knead / Into the Darkness 49 / Little Monster 13 / Never Leave You 18 / Star Mares 3.1.8 / Wine 2 [ http://tinyurl.com/h8v8eqv ]

23:02 <Schism> I trust you brought a pickaxe to that mine?

23:02 <Cepheid> Yes.

23:03 <Cepheid> I need to find a source of Resist Fire magic.

23:03 <Saerydoth> get a mirror that's reflective in the IR range ;P

23:03 <Schism> Remember to check into the general shop frequently.  The owner's a jerkface, but he sometimes does stock those useful trinkets.

23:03 <iandroid> Schism: I read it ages ago too, just reread it

23:03 <Saerydoth> that'll protect you from everything but convection

23:03 <iandroid> It's as good as I remember

23:04 <Cepheid> While that would work, I meant in Skyrim.

23:04 <Gladiolus> yay this pentium 100 works .3.

23:04 <Gladiolus> Actually it's a pentium 75 overclocked, which would've saved you like 300 dollars in 1994

23:04 <iandroid> I'd say the Rama book is good, not the series, because Clarke didn't write the sequels, he only consulted on them

23:05 <Cepheid> ...

23:05 <Schism> Reasonable enough, iandroid.

23:05 <Cepheid> Leather Helmet of Minor Archery.

23:05 <iandroid> Gentry Lee and his freaking obsession with some medieval nun had no place in that story

23:05 <Cepheid> And a circlet of alchemy.

23:05 <Schism> Useful stuff.  You going to disenchant both of 'em?

23:06 <Cepheid> Tempting, but I'm not sure I can create a better archery helmet.  I'll wait a bit until my Enchantment skill is up and I acquire some perks.

23:08 <Schism> Speaking of enchanting, do you intend to make a -100% cost set at any point?

23:08 *** Quits: CocoPommel (Coco@kind.hearted.earth.pone) (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)

23:08 <Cepheid> Dunno yet.

23:09 <Fall> Yeah the Rama sequels are crap

23:09 *** Joins: CocoPommel (Coco@kind.hearted.earth.pone)

23:10 *** Joins: Surreal_Nightmares (Surreal_Nig@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone)

23:10 <Schism> I only clearly remember Rendezvous - I must have blocked out the others.

23:10 <Fall> They're a completely different flavour of book. All interpersonal drama and flashbacks.

23:12 *** Quits: Cepheid (cepheid@tick.tock.tick.tock.goes.the.clock) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

23:12 <Schism> Oh yeah, Cepheid, if you find a weapon with Turn Undead on it, disenchant that ASAP, because it's one of the best choices for enchanting iron daggers.

23:13 *** Quits: Filly_Nightmares (Surreal_Nig@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

23:14 *** Quits: DARK (DARK@Pony-1pp.cqi.67.82.IP) (Quit: You're so zetta slow!)

23:14 *** Joins: DARK (DARK@Pony-1pp.cqi.67.82.IP)

23:20 *** Quits: Cyan_Spark (scintillae@sparks.only.last.so.long) (Connection closed)

23:21 *** SleepFrame is now known as FreezeFrame

23:31 *** Quits: Thy (uid63062@Pony-tnlo2b.richmond.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

23:33 *** Joins: Cepheid (cepheid@tick.tock.tick.tock.goes.the.clock)

23:33 <Cepheid> Right then, reconnected.  Now then, COMPANIONS!

23:38 <Schism> Ah, excellent, the Silver Hand need a-murderin'.

23:41 <Cepheid> Really, beat up HER in a brawl first?  What are they trying to do, alienate my best merchant from me?

23:42 <Schism> Eh, you can always pass a Speech test.

23:43 <Cepheid> I failed it.

23:45 <Cepheid> Ah, Skyrim.  Nothing like- ... Wait, is that a wolf flying through the air from the blow of a Mudcrab?

23:46 * Schism blinks. Also, he wonders if Cepheid has acquired the Space Core.

23:47 <Cepheid> No.  It's just something I literally saw.

23:47 <Cepheid> It went flying up into the air and crashed into the ground a few meters away.

23:47 <Schism> Well, wolves are a nuisance anyway, so yay Mudcrab!

23:48 <Schism> Rockjoint is a really annoying effect.

23:48 *** Quits: Saerydoth (akai@Pony-t8d.c1i.56.172.IP) (Quit: Leaving)

23:51 <Cepheid> I see while I've been away, the Draugr have been training.

23:53 <Cepheid> ... What... the hell?

23:54 <SunsetShimmer> It's the bears you really have to worry about

23:54 *** Quits: SniperDash (HyperDash@Pony-pveddk.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)

23:54 *** Quits: HyperDash (HyperDash@Pony-pveddk.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)

23:54 <SunsetShimmer> *Exploring the wilderness, suddenly beardeath!*

23:55 <Cepheid> The dragons are worse.

23:55 <Cepheid> So far, most of them have killed me.  I usually won through abuse of tricks.

23:55 <Schism> Saber Cats are also somewhat annoying.

23:55 <Cepheid> Like sending Lydia to distract it permanently and shooting it from afar.  Or pulling it to the nearest town so the guards can help.

23:55 <SunsetShimmer> Funnily enough, I never got to the meat of the narrative of Skyrim

23:55 <SunsetShimmer> I wound up more lost in the wilderness and never actually got to dragon'ing

23:55 *** Joins: Reia (Reia@TheCowPony)

23:56 <Schism> I keep getting distracted before the meet which leads into the Civil War.

23:57 <SunsetShimmer> it's the same with me and fallout 3...I've never actually gotten into the story for longer than an hour or so, then I just get lost. xD

23:57 <SunsetShimmer> so I sorta have never beaten either game