00:00 * Cepheid isn't sure how to respond honestly. He's busy with his own code. He wants to help, but giving an example in C would take a while. Same with C++, Java, etc.
00:02 <Cepheid> The simplest approach I can think of is a linked list of linked lists.
00:02 <Cepheid> It's not exactly efficient, though.
00:03 <Cepheid> Basically, when a new column is inserted, each linked list would have to have a new node inserted in the same spot.
00:04 <Cepheid> When a new row is added, it's simpler. Just create a new linked list with the same number of nodes as all the other linked lists, then traverse down the linked list of linked lists, and insert the new list in the appropriate position.
00:04 <Cepheid> There's also overhead in storing pointers.
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00:05 <Moongoodboy{K}> Linked lists. D:
00:05 <Cepheid> Like I said, absolute simplest approach.
00:05 <Cepheid> If you want something more efficient, it becomes difficult.
00:06 <Moongoodboy{K}> I mean, a vector of vectors would be simpler :p
00:06 <Moongoodboy{K}> …or not, I guess, since they're both in the standard library
00:06 <Cepheid> Arguable.
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00:06 <Cepheid> The problem with vectors is that when you insert, you have to shift elements.
00:06 <Cepheid> For a small grid, this is okay.
00:07 <Cepheid> But when you start getting into larger and larger grids, the cost would become excessive.
00:07 <Cepheid> At least with linked lists, there are ways to amortize things.
00:07 <Cepheid> But even that would grow intractable after a point.
00:07 <Cepheid> At which point you'd have to employ techniques such as blocking.
00:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff - Best of Derpy Hooves - Humanized and Anthro Edition [ http://tinyurl.com/y4y34rbf ]
00:07 <Cepheid> Or chunking.
00:08 <Cepheid> Instead of each node of the linked list containing a single element in the grid, each node of the linked list contains N cells of a given row.
00:08 <Cepheid> Where N is high enough to account for your use case without wasting too much memory.
00:09 <Cepheid> This of course comes back to the issue of vectors, though.
00:09 <Cepheid> So in all, it's a mess.
00:10 <Cepheid> There are all sorts of ways to resolve the problem, but none of them are pretty.
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00:35 <Moongoodboy{K}> augh. :(
00:35 * Cepheid sits atop the ADragonDreaming.
00:36 * PinkieShy sits on Cepheid
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00:38 <Flutterbold> HI there
00:38 * Ali starts timer
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00:41 <Schism> Minestrone with rice...
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00:49 * Surreal_Nightmares mewls at PinkieShy
00:49 * Surreal_Nightmares uses Schism as a bed and Stormspark as a plushie!
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01:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: BronyCon Ticket Sale for Derpy Day Weekend [ http://tinyurl.com/yyn6yohp ]
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01:43 <Schism> "Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm always on the side of the angels, but you must admit, every now and again, those angels can be so..." *poofs into existence a highball manhattan with a slice of lime* "wicked."
01:46 * ADragonDreaming turns it into a root beer float.
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01:47 <Schism> Hee. That would also be fine.
01:47 <Schism> Adra: sorry, every now and then you have to do a Tony Jay impression.
01:47 <ADragonDreaming> Who?
01:48 <Schism> Um. Megatron? Xanatos?
01:49 <Schism> The man of a million and a half villains?
01:49 <ADragonDreaming> Ah, okay.
01:49 <ADragonDreaming> I very rarely know actor names.
01:50 * PinkieShy hands Schism some Jiffy Pop
01:51 <Schism> Megabyte and Xanatos were certainly his most famous roles, but he also did Shere Khan. And "The Transcendent One" from Planescape.
01:57 <Tirek> I liked his roles in the Legacy of Kain series. Though abruptly they changed him from the necromancer to the necromancer's master, both of whose names I've long forgotten.
01:58 <Tirek> The writing and voice work in Legacy of Kain in general is phenomenal.
01:58 <Schism> Never actually saw those ones, alas.
01:58 <ADragonDreaming> aren't those games?
01:58 <Tirek> Yes.
01:58 <Schism> Yeah, he did some VG VA work.
01:59 <Tirek> I would recommend watching playthroughs at least. The sad thing is the games aren't actually all that great.
01:59 <Schism> Hell, he did The Bard's Tale and ate ALL the scenery.
01:59 <Schism> Though not as much as he did when he played Megabyte in Reboot.
01:59 <Tirek> I'd dare to say they spent most of their budget on voice actors, and they all performed amazingly.
02:00 <Tirek> The main character who voices Kain is also very good.
02:00 <Tirek> I just don't remember all the actors involved, last time I played a Kain game was in the 90s.
02:00 <Schism> Oh yes. Also, Chairface Chippendale.
02:02 <Schism> His role as Shere Khan may have been the most important one, as it was his voice in TaleSpin, with which a number of us grew up.
02:03 <Schism> Also. DAMNIT, GT, CAN WE GET Freedom Planet 2 YET?! Maybe? Darnit, I want to see more Carol. :<
02:04 <Tirek> No, you can get Grapple Force Rena while you wait, though.
02:04 <Schism> Oh, Tirek, have you played CrossCode yet?
02:04 <Tirek> No. I don't have monies.
02:04 <Schism> Ah, darn. :< Demo?
02:05 <Tirek> Or, rather, I don't anymore. I spent the last of my money on an impulse buy - the Just Cause franchise, sans 4, was on sale for 13 bucks.
02:05 <Tirek> I am really digging JC 3 so far.
02:05 <Schism> I can hardly blame you for that one. JC2 is my favourite, but mostly because it has a delightful multiplayer experience.
02:06 <Tirek> I'm not really even doing anything in JC3 yet, really, I just find gliding around incredibly satisfying. I'm easily amused.
02:06 <Schism> That's... kinda half the point of the games, yeah.
02:07 <Schism> Just enjoy flying around, driving about, and getting into hilarious wrecks.
02:07 <Tirek> I liberated two areas, and I want to get mods before I do a bunch of story missions.
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02:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Discussion #1726 [ http://tinyurl.com/y47xxlhg ]
02:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by The Illustrious Q: EXCLUSIVE: My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic #75—Extended Preview [ http://tinyurl.com/y69jhpj2 ]
02:07 <Schism> This is the game to which I referred, by the by. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuN-5yxwogU
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02:09 <Tirek> I've heard of Crosscode.
02:09 <Tirek> Its an action RPG right
02:09 <Tirek> Or am I thinking of something else
02:09 <Schism> Yup, you're thinking right.
02:09 <Schism> Very 'Mana' series.
02:11 <Tirek> Ah
02:16 <Schism> I mean, the first boss is an armoured crab. With this music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJHgs48D5eM
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02:21 <Tirek> Can you hit its weak point for massive damage?
02:21 <Schism> That is its point, yes.
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02:22 <Schism> That then becomes a semi-minor plot point.
02:23 <Tirek> Also, to answer your question from a week ago, no I stopped paying attention to GDQ.
02:23 <Tirek> When I have money to do so, I'd rather give my money directly to the charity they sponser instead of acknowledge them.
02:23 <Schism> I've heard that a lot, that GDQ is no longer positively regarded. May I ask why?
02:24 <Schism> I only ask because I feel like your explanation may be somewhat more congizant.
02:25 <Tirek> Its mostly sjw stuff, from what I've heard. Blacklisting popular runners to get other people into it. Although that's not the reason I'm upset with them. They can bring on whomever they want.
02:26 <Schism> Well... that first explanation seems to be commensurate with the people I've heard are no longer fans, but... what's your own reason?
02:26 <Tirek> Last time I looked at GDQ, they did these dumb side-skits from the announcers, as if they were trying to -be- the show, rather than the games and those running the game. I've also read some third-hand info about the head of GDQ taking a cut of the donations, but I'm not sure nor bothered to find out if that's true or not.
02:26 <Schism> Ah, so more the /show/ than the games?
02:26 <Tirek> Correct, and it annoyed a great many runners.
02:26 <Tirek> As well as viewers, but mostly runners.
02:27 <Schism> That's a good reason, to be sure.
02:28 <Tirek> I'm aware that GDQ has a huge crowd of what are essentially shareholders and advertisers, and if they don't blacklist certain runners who use coarse language, or express political opinions, then they could lose those sponsers, so I'm less bothered about the sjw stuff than the comedy skits that undermined the spirit and intention of GDQ to begin with.
02:29 <Schism> My favourite run of GDQ 2019 was the Sonic 1 one, but that worked well as a practical example of both comedy and speedrunning, as demonstration of glitches.
02:29 <Tirek> Ah.
02:30 <Schism> Coarse language, I understand, and I don't hate that... I think that a certain subset of language could be destructive towards a subset of speedrunners and gamers in general, but that particular question is perhaps one best taken elsewhere.
02:31 <Tirek> So, yeah, essentially I just feel like I can't trust them to pass the money along, so I'll be sending my support to the charities they sponser directly.
02:31 <Schism> That's perfectly reasonable. GDQ has become a corporation, all told.
02:31 <Tirek> Right.
02:32 <Schism> Again, I like a subset of the runs, and I think it's still a good idea, just... might be better handled than it is now.
02:33 <Schism> And heh, you should check out that Sonic 1 glitched run.
02:33 <Tirek> I'll look into it when I'm not busy.
02:33 <Schism> Mmm.
02:33 <Tirek> Friend of mine is like 95% done with their fangame, and I've been tasked with writing an original soundtrack for it.
02:34 <Tirek> Also, I may or may not get paid for it, which, while it isn't exactly why I'm doing it, that's a nice bonus.
02:34 <Schism> Anything into which he's willing to let us sink our teeth?
02:34 <Tirek> Guy is extremely paranoid, so, nah.
02:34 <Schism> So it goes, s'fine.
02:35 <Tirek> But, he's doing a thing Strife wanted to do with FP1, and that is Shang Mu Architech. Originally the target test mini game was going to have a level editor.
02:35 <Schism> Not surprising, that.
02:35 <Tirek> It took him about a year of hard work constructing the game's physics from scratch using only raw numbers provided by a speedrunner's hacking tool.
02:35 <Schism> Damnitall, were it not for my dead hard drive I'd still have a selection of additional voices.
02:36 <Schism> He what.
02:36 <Schism> Physics tools, that makes sense, but to go so far, that takes some dedication.
02:37 <Tirek> He has a few bugs with the physics engine, and Lilac, to fix, but basically, I'd estimate in a couple of weeks, it'll be ready for closed testing and default level construction.
02:38 <Tirek> I stole a song from Blitz Lunar (and then asked him permission) and we're using one of his for one of the bgm themes. I'm gonna make two or three more to go along with it. Guy's going to ask Woofle if she'd be cool with letting us use some of her own remixes of the FP1 soundtrack for stuff.
02:39 <Schism> Was there any reason the original developers did NOT release that option for FP1's Shang Mu targets?
02:39 <Tirek> Yes
02:39 <Tirek> Same reason they haven't officially done Torque and Spade yet.
02:39 <Tirek> Multimedia Fusion is a huge piece of expletive.
02:40 <Schism> Ah. Good reason.
02:40 <Schism> Why anyone still uses Adobe in this day and age...
02:40 <Tirek> That's clickteam :v
02:40 <Schism> Okay.
02:40 <Tirek> Strife took MMF to its absolute limit, and his game basically made the engine burst at the seams.
02:40 <Schism> Why anyone still uses Adobe or Clickteam in this day and age...
02:41 <Tirek> Any further work on the game will cause it to break.
02:42 <Schism> I've seen that on some Glulx stories, too. Pushing them to their very edges, and then... pop.
02:42 <Tirek> Yep.
02:42 <Tirek> T'is why Unity is the foundation FP2 is built on.
02:42 <Schism> Well, I hate Unity and everything around it, but, needs must when the devil craps on your shoes.
02:43 <Tirek> Fangame's being made in Game Maker, and from what friend has said, he's also pushing GM to the absolute limit, but in the opposite direction. His fangame uses about 1/10th of the RAM required as FP1, and uses about the same CPU resources as the C++ builds of FP1.
02:43 <Schism> It's just the interpreter, then.
02:44 <Schism> Tirek, how are you not talking with Cepheid more often?
02:44 <Tirek> Well, GM is basically just an interpreter as well, which is why its crazy just how compact, resource consumption wise, he's taken it.
02:45 <Cepheid> Heh.
02:45 <Tirek> I've been pretty invested in this project, mostly, despite not knowing how to program at all.
02:45 <Schism> Well yeah. I mean the interpreter's going pop instead of some kind of memory madness.
02:45 <Cepheid> There are ways to reduce the RAM taken, yeah.
02:45 <Cepheid> Like loading resources on demand, and unloading them when they are not necessary.
02:45 <Schism> Is that... not basic memory management?
02:46 <Schism> That should... are people not doing that?
02:46 <Tirek> They don't teach it in school anymore, last I've heard.
02:46 <Cepheid> It is something they should be doing, but..
02:46 <Schism> ... WHYYYYY?! What the crap?! What? That's 101!
02:46 <Cepheid> In school, they don't teach it outside of "Just make sure to deallocate what you allocate at some point."
02:46 <Cepheid> Not "Deallocate when you no longer need it."
02:47 <Schism> You... let go of a resource when you don't need it...
02:47 <Schism> And then... but then people will take it when you're not looking and... and that...
02:47 <Cepheid> The logic behind it is that computers increasingly have more and more memory.
02:47 <Schism> Someone please tell me that I'm not going completely mad and my idea of 'best practices' are actually reasonable.
02:47 <Cepheid> Which isn't *BAD* logic per se.
02:48 <Cepheid> We should be utilizing the larger capacities we have now.
02:48 <Schism> YES IT IS, Cepheid. Yes. It. Is.
02:48 <Cepheid> Let me finish.
02:48 <Schism> Sorry, go on.
02:48 <Tirek> Friend didn't go to school, so he's learned memory management on his own. Guy wants to be able to run his things on potatoes, and that's something I can get behind.
02:49 <Cepheid> Games right now are only using a maximum of 2 to 3 gigabytes right now, because of a number of reasons. One, 4 gigabytes is commonplace, but 8, 12, 16 and so on are becoming more commonplace. Two, people are being stupid and still using 32-bit operating systems, and Windows in particular is a bad OS in regards to memory beyond 4GB in any machine using 32-bit.
02:49 <Cepheid> Windows does not support Physical Address Extension, so more than 4GB of memory is USELESS no matter what, on a 32-bit version.
02:49 <Cepheid> You won't get any benefit what-so-ever.
02:50 <Schism> So... you take a chunk of 4GB, and you make the full use of that address space.
02:50 <Cepheid> Windows 32-bit versions don't make use of PAE because, and I am serious..
02:50 <Cepheid> The drivers don't know how to handle it.
02:50 <Cepheid> It causes driver bugs.
02:50 <Cepheid> So to prevent the driver bugs, Windows is, by default, on 32-bit machines, set to not use PAE.
02:50 <Schism> This is a recurring theme with Windows, for those who aren't familiar with how kernels handle things.
02:50 <Cepheid> And as such, it cannot address more than 4GB, even if the system has more than 4GB installed.
02:51 <Cepheid> 64-bit has no such problem.
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02:51 <Schism> Yet.
02:51 <Cepheid> Even with the 32-bit on 64-bit stuff.
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02:51 <Cepheid> Anyways..
02:52 <Schism> Sorry, couldn't resist, go on.
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02:52 <Cepheid> The problem is that developers are facing worse and worse memory constraints by limiting themselves.
02:52 <Cepheid> We got games with massive load times and such. Why?
02:52 <Cepheid> Because we have to de-allocate memory that's in use, re-allocate it, load data into it..
02:52 <Cepheid> When we could simply have a background loader, loading into the extra RAM that the system might have.
02:52 <Cepheid> And then swap that in when it comes to loading.
02:52 <Cepheid> We can also make use of larger buffers for storing recently used data.
02:53 <Cepheid> Like say, in Skyrim, with it's cell buffering and all that.
02:53 <Cepheid> But we don't *DO* that, because we're still constraining ourselves to certain setups.
02:53 <Schism> In effect, you could load the operating system and the program in question into active memory, as we do swap files on hard drive space.
02:53 <Schism> If I'm not mistaking things.
02:54 <Schism> Isn't...
02:54 <Cepheid> You don't want to swap to the swap file though.
02:54 <Cepheid> That's what happens when you run out of memory, actually.
02:54 * Schism frowns. "Isn't the swap file specifically used for -- yeah."
02:55 <Cepheid> What I'm thinking is closer to "Load data into memory ahead of time, then move it around when needed."
02:55 <Cepheid> Or just adjust the internal pointers.
02:55 <Cepheid> RAM->RAM transfers are fast. Disk->RAM transfers are still slow by orders of magnitudes.
02:55 <Cepheid> Even with an NVMe drive.
02:55 <Schism> Well, yeah... hrm...
02:55 <Tirek> I really wish I could have gotten my head around Headcannon, incidentally. Headcannon was designed from the ground up to be as resource-lite as possible.
02:56 <Cepheid> Now, that said.
02:56 <Cepheid> Using RAM willy-nilly is a bad idea.
02:57 <Schism> Can be problematic when shutdowns occur, for one thing.
02:57 <Cepheid> That aside, the issue is more performance.
02:57 <Schism> It's not capable of anything like long-term storage. Registers... yeah. Hmm.
02:57 <Schism> I want to say that there must be some means now by which... wait... oh damn.
02:58 <Cepheid> Registers are limited.
02:58 <Cepheid> And trying to optimize for using them is ridiculous. Don't.
02:58 <Schism> Give us a nice little hard drive on the motherboard storing a hard installation of the OS.
02:58 <Cepheid> I mean, there are cases where you can do it better than the compiler.
02:59 <Cepheid> But what you *SHOULD* be working on, is co-operating with the cache.
02:59 <Schism> Work with that, in such a manner that ... wait. Cepheid, did you just see that video I linked?
03:00 <Cepheid> Which one?
03:00 <Schism> The Birth and Death of Javascript.
03:00 <Schism> Also... hm. Linking software and hardware is always going to seem positive, but what happens when a flaw inevitably appears?
03:00 <Cepheid> Oh, that one.
03:00 <Schism> Yea.
03:00 <Cepheid> I have not, yet.
03:00 <Cepheid> I should do that later.
03:01 <Schism> Yeah, you should take a look, it's very tongue-in-cheek but also very worrisome.
03:01 <Cepheid> Anyhow, yeah, the cache is your friend.
03:01 <Cepheid> Problem is, it's different for each architecture, and even with each CPU.
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03:01 <Schism> Oh, but you can solve that by having just one model of CPU!
03:01 <Schism> </troll>
03:02 <Cepheid> Heh,.
03:02 <Schism> I joke, but people have seriously proposed it...
03:02 <Cepheid> The problem is that each CPU has different cache line sizes, different amounts of it, different strategies for writing it back to RAM, and so on.
03:02 <Cepheid> So, one exploitation method won't work for another.
03:02 <Cepheid> There are some general techniques, though.
03:02 <Schism> This is actually good for security, of course.
03:03 <Schism> Bad for optimization, but good for security.
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03:04 <Schism> And a great example of this is, how do you do an attack along one line which involves flooding.
03:06 <Schism> Flooding, in this case, is a DDOS attack which attacks a specific server, along a specific line. It does exactly what it appears to. This isn't quite the same as a line of attack against a processor, of course, but it follows something similar.
03:06 <Cepheid> I'm aware of the exploits in the Intel CPUs.
03:06 <Cepheid> And AMD, and ARM.
03:06 <Cepheid> Sidechannel attacks, speculative execution and all that, yes.
03:07 <Schism> Oh fine. :< I was just explaining for anyone watching.
03:07 <Schism> Foreshadow is pretty ugly, admittedly.
03:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Derpy Day - Open Art Compilation! [ http://tinyurl.com/yyc3dlmp ]
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03:13 <ADragonDreaming> hmm... getting poor internet performance today
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03:16 <Schism> So, Adra... >_>
03:17 <Schism> Ya gonna take a look back at CrossCode?
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03:20 <ADragonDreaming> some point, yeah
03:21 * Surreal_Nightmares noms Cepheid
03:22 * Schism boops Surry with "Searching for Friends".
03:31 <Schism> "Well. Someone's playing the smart game. Triangulation, two pings and two responses -- either they want me to find them, or they want to find me, or both. The question then becomes... do I want to reply?"
03:36 * Filly_Nightmares kneads Schism
03:36 * Schism boops Filly_Nightmares wif a slice of garlic bread wif tons of cheese!
03:41 * Filly_Nightmares licks da cheese up!
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04:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: 40+ Fanfics to Read for Derpy Day - 2019 Edition! [ http://tinyurl.com/y463dl3f ]
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04:26 <Finwe> Good morning, everypony!
04:27 <Finwe> Miss Filly_Nightmares, Messrs RazorSharpFang and Schism.
04:27 * Finwe sleepily doffs his hat.
04:27 <RazorSharpFang> Hey heys Finwe
04:35 * Ali snugs on RazorSharpFang
04:35 <Finwe> Miss Ali.
04:35 * Finwe hats on an Ali.
04:35 * Ali sicks on Finwe
04:37 <Schism> Aliiiiii. I don't understand anything anymore.
04:38 <Schism> This is a thing. https://i.imgur.com/53Hw94f.jpg
04:38 * Schism also hats on Ali and feeds her chikkin noodle soup.
04:39 <Ali> I don't get it either Schism
04:39 * Schism flops on ground. And also feeds Ali more soop.
04:40 <ADragonDreaming> spaghetti!
04:44 <Schism> I, um. I. https://twitter.com/BranDrawsThings/status/1101152174149529600
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04:52 <ADragonDreaming> Is this referencing something?
04:52 <Schism> Pokemon, yes.
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04:53 <Schism> Oh, and the whole pound of feathers thing.
04:53 <ADragonDreaming> Well, sure
04:53 <ADragonDreaming> I was just wondering if there was something beyond that
04:53 <Schism> British/Scottish thing, yes, that's in reference thereto. It's silly.
04:53 <ADragonDreaming> why is the pound of feathers thing UK specific?
04:54 <Schism> Troy ounces and pounds.
04:54 <ADragonDreaming> eh?
04:55 <Schism> The question of how many ounces there are in a pound is... problematic. And how much an ounce weighs is even more so.
04:56 <Schism> And how much a pound of /metal/ weighs... differs.
04:57 <ADragonDreaming> ah
04:57 <Schism> See, you can say that it's X mass, but that depends upon the metal.
04:57 <Schism> And from there... a pound of feathers can weigh a lot of different thing.
04:57 <Schism> things.*
04:58 <Schism> So yeah, it's perfectly reasonable for a pound of feathers to weigh -- well, a lot more than a pound of metal.
04:59 <Schism> If course, that's no longer the case.
04:59 <Schism> Of course*
05:00 <Schism> Now, the pound and the kilogram are linked to a specific volume of matter.
05:01 <Schism> But of course, you can have some fun by saying that a pound's worth of gold can change from time to time, and that a pound's worth ten seconds ago is no longer valued at the same price as a pound's worth of feathers. Good luck saying that without getting punched in the face, of course.
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05:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Derpy Day Ends! [ http://tinyurl.com/y4r4hdp7 ]
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05:46 * DerbyFloat horses
05:54 <Golden> Hm
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06:34 <vscr> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:35 <offby1> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:36 <JonTheVGNerd> Seems we got us a spambot
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06:36 <Comstock-> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:37 <HallaSurvivor> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:37 <Solarion> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:38 <Wizzup> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:39 <is_null> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:40 <wowsuchnamaste> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:40 <t3xc0d3_> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:43 <zaiko> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:44 <Afterster> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:44 <mahe> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:45 <troy_s> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:45 <halbbalda> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:45 <bazz> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:46 <stevest> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:47 <Aly0sha> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:48 <MasterofJOKers> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:48 <macdice> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:50 <cholcombe> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:51 <Natalie> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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06:53 <RandomGuyOnIrc> read about the new exciting pedo-friendly linux distribution https://exherbo.com/
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07:01 <Tirek> What an amazing individual
07:02 <ConfusionRift> Yes, so amazing, he won't be missed.
07:02 <ConfusionRift> Anyways, hey there.
07:04 <ConfusionRift> Hope all is okay... outside this mess that just happened.
07:07 * PinkieShy licks ConfusionRift
07:09 <ConfusionRift> Unfortunately, I got zero control over these type of attacks. It's better to let it all die by G-line than for me to continuously ban a bunch of randos with different addresses.
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07:15 <ConfusionRift> Well, seems it's not over yet.
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07:30 * ConfusionRift flops.
07:31 <RazorSharpFang> You could always just ban certain keywords that bots like to use.
07:31 * ConfusionRift has no control over that either.
07:32 <ConfusionRift> That would be like a server side script, which I can't do.
07:33 <RazorSharpFang> I mean, in messages.
07:33 <Colgate> that's already in existence :P
07:34 <ConfusionRift> Aaah, right. But doesn't it just work like a censor?
07:34 <Colgate> the channel one, yes
07:35 <Colgate> blocks messages that match a pattern
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07:40 <Ali> Anyway, this sick pony is going to try and sleep/ lie down. My arm is killing me and sitting upright does it no good
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07:43 <ConfusionRift> What's the point of that? Is really flooding chat fun?
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08:00 * ConfusionRift sighs.
08:01 <RazorSharpFang> A lot of bot activity is actually done for money.
08:01 <RazorSharpFang> Mind you, it's usually only profitable when it's not /your/ bandwidth/cpu-power/electricity being consumed.
08:03 <ConfusionRift> They're using a false factoid over a linux distro that not many like due to its exclusivity, with said factoid giving it bad reputation. As far as I see, no one wins on this one.
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08:05 * Colgate shrugs
08:05 <Colgate> without the bot spam, I would never have known about this distro
08:05 <Colgate> so, the attempt to put it in a negative light, at least to me, completely backfired
08:06 <ConfusionRift> I guess that's a plus? (shrugs) Because I kinda searched this up as well.
08:06 * ConfusionRift looks at Colgate. "We kinda fed the enemy... we suck, huh." :P
08:07 <ConfusionRift> Dunno why, I found that funny.
08:07 <RazorSharpFang> Reminds me of my teammates in league of legends. Always feeding.
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08:22 <Golden> What happened
08:23 <ConfusionRift> Spam bot fest not long ago.
08:25 * Golden shrugs holding his dark angel codex.
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08:31 * Surreal_Nightmares licks Golden
08:33 <Golden> ._.
08:34 * Golden pets Surreal_Nightmares
08:34 * Surreal_Nightmares purrs and curls up on Golden
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08:34 * Golden smiles softly petting still
08:36 <Finwe> Good forenoon, my perissodactyls of minute stature.
08:36 <Finwe> Lt Cdr ConfusionRift, Mr Golden, Miss Surreal_Nightmares.
08:36 <Finwe> o7
08:37 <Golden> ^~^
08:38 <ConfusionRift> RAdm. Finwe. (salutes)
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08:57 * Golden flops.
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09:24 * DerbyFloat sticks one of ConfusionRift's hooves in her mouth
09:26 * ConfusionRift pets DerbyFloat with the other. :P
09:26 * Finwe ruffles a DerpyBot.
09:32 * DerbyFloat falls asleep on top of Finwe
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09:53 <Christian_Qs> pick up your weapons and fight for the white race https://media.8ch.net/file_store/5b864d8b81a3777fc80a735ef5ac83c687df4df5a1560c8705cc0ee6b08ea13a.png
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09:55 <ConfusionRift> For the love of...!!!
09:59 <ConfusionRift> Oh, it's linked to the same garbage. Wow, just completely non-creative.
10:00 <ConfusionRift> Well, let them get G-Lined.
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10:06 <nkss> pick up your weapons and fight for the white race https://media.8ch.net/file_store/5b864d8b81a3777fc80a735ef5ac83c687df4df5a1560c8705cc0ee6b08ea13a.png
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10:08 <Wizord> pick up your weapons and fight for the white race https://media.8ch.net/file_store/5b864d8b81a3777fc80a735ef5ac83c687df4df5a1560c8705cc0ee6b08ea13a.png
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10:15 <azend|vps_> pick up your weapons and fight for the white race https://media.8ch.net/file_store/5b864d8b81a3777fc80a735ef5ac83c687df4df5a1560c8705cc0ee6b08ea13a.png
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10:52 <kkj> pick up your weapons and fight for the white race https://media.8ch.net/file_store/5b864d8b81a3777fc80a735ef5ac83c687df4df5a1560c8705cc0ee6b08ea13a.png
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11:06 *** Changeling_Nightmares is now known as Filly_Nightmares
11:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #1500 [ http://tinyurl.com/y4wwpemg ]
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11:34 * Finwe noms on Surreal_Nightmares.
11:47 <Starlight_Glimmer> white is sooo out of fashion :3
11:52 <Finwe> Indeed. The best pony is baby-blue.
11:59 <Starlight_Glimmer> Pretty sure you meant to say dark blue
12:01 <Finwe> No, I'm quite sure that I meant baby-blue; after all, we all know that Rainbow Dash is best pony. o3o
12:02 <Finwe> One should actually write, "the best pony", but in this context, the definite article is traditionally omitted.
12:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: MORNING HAPPY: Pinkie Pie Middle [ http://tinyurl.com/y23nb2rd ]
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12:44 <Moongoodboy{K}> Finwe: it's a frozen-register thing. :3
12:45 <Finwe> Eeeyup. :3
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12:57 <gmcharlt> https://twitter.com/OneTrueKloeri/status/1101825947752427520
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13:00 <seanBE> https://twitter.com/OneTrueKloeri/status/1101825947752427520
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13:02 <TiCPU> https://twitter.com/OneTrueKloeri/status/1101825947752427520
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13:04 <phar6oor> https://twitter.com/OneTrueKloeri/status/1101825947752427520
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13:05 <ADragonDreaming> aye gevalt
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13:06 <|aaron> https://twitter.com/OneTrueKloeri/status/1101825947752427520
13:08 <ADragonDreaming> Googie, you around?
13:08 <Googie> Done
13:09 <ADragonDreaming> Adank
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13:18 <RazorSharpFang> Wowie, the spam-bots are busy on our little server.
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13:47 * Finwe hats on Schism|Adagio.
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14:23 * Schism waves a Dreadwyrm Longbow at Koopz.
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14:35 <Cepheid> Morning.
14:41 <Cepheid> Wow, Microsoft is only just now getting to retpolines for mitigating Spectre?
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14:54 <RazorSharpFang> Hey heys Cepheid. How's the Japanese studies going?
14:55 <ADragonDreaming> just now getting to what for what
14:58 <Cepheid> ADragonDreaming: A fix for a major vulnerability revealed back in January of last year.
14:58 <ADragonDreaming> wow
14:58 <Cepheid> RazorSharpFang: Not bad, we're into kanji and verbs, and particles associated with verbs. We're more or less up to where I stopped my self-teaching.
15:00 <Cepheid> Don't misunderstand though, ADragonDreaming. The vulnerability is not their fault.
15:00 <Cepheid> Spectre is a vulnerability first discovered on Intel processors. AMD and ARM processors are affected, but there are variants of it that these processors are immune to.
15:01 <Cepheid> As it's a processor bug, it's kind of hard to fix on the hardware side(Microcode could be updated to mitigate parts of it, though, from what I understand.) It required software changes to mitigate.
15:02 <Cepheid> Those changes incurred considerable performance hits in some workloads. Up to 40% performance loss in the worst case.
15:02 <Cepheid> Microsoft's fix, released yesterday, recovers some of that performance loss.
15:03 <ADragonDreaming> aha
15:04 <RazorSharpFang> 明日私はジムにいきます.
15:05 <Schism> Hah, Adra, Shi-yun letting Jee-han know in no uncertain terms, "You suck at martial arts, get better."
15:05 <ADragonDreaming> yep!
15:05 <Cepheid> Going to the gym tomorrow, RazorSharpFang?
15:06 <RazorSharpFang> Yep yep! :3
15:07 <RazorSharpFang> There was a third kanji I was supposed to put in there ( 行き ｜ いき - going ) but I messed up with the IME.
15:07 <Schism> Also, Adra, the Dan Ui guild's plan sounds just a teensy little bit concerning.
15:07 <Cepheid> I had to look up the first kanji. We've only covered 1 through 10, then 100, 1000, and 10000, "time" and one other I can't recall off hand.
15:08 <Cepheid> I'd know it if I saw it, but I just can't remember it.
15:08 <RazorSharpFang> I am almost constantly looking up Kanji whenever I'm trying to use Japanese tbh.
15:09 <Cepheid> Same.
15:09 <Cepheid> I've learned to decompose kanji into radicals, I also know how to count the number of strokes by examining the kanji.
15:11 <Cepheid> I'm afraid to ask how I'm going to implement Japanese text in my game. There's one solution, but I'd like thoughts on it first.
15:12 <Cepheid> Basically, when it comes to games and text, what's more important to you all? Readability, or following the style of the game? For the latter, I mean if the game is pixelated, akin to old-era games, should the font also be pixelated?
15:12 <Cepheid> I'm going to assume most are going to vote for readability.
15:14 <RazorSharpFang> Cepheid, what I was going to do is pre-render every unicode character to a texture, and load all of them at run-time.
15:14 <Cepheid> You misunderstand what I mean.
15:15 <Cepheid> I am asking would you prefer sharp, clean text, over pixel-style text?
15:15 <Cepheid> The "how" it's implemented is irrelevant.
15:15 <RazorSharpFang> I would use Google's Open-Sans for readability.
15:15 <Cepheid> Just the style.
15:15 * Cepheid sighs, he doesn't seem to be getting across.
15:15 <Cepheid> Let me get a demonstration.
15:18 <ADragonDreaming> For font
15:18 <ADragonDreaming> Readibility.
15:18 <Cepheid> https://i.redd.it/sk80w7sajih11.png Text like this, that's clear and easy to read, but doesn't follow the artistic conventions used by the game(That is, sharp text, pixelated graphics), or like https://sites.google.com/site/harvestimages/la-mulana_23052007_211741.jpg this, where the text has the same style as the art of the game(That is, pixel font, pixel art)
15:18 <ADragonDreaming> It's more important to be able to read the menu than for the menu to be old-timey.
15:18 <Cepheid> The reason I ask is 'cause some people are nitpicky about stuff like that, as it causes a disconnect, etc.
15:18 <RazorSharpFang> I prefer it to be antialiased myself.
15:18 <ADragonDreaming> for me, a menu is a menu.
15:18 <Cepheid> Right.
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15:19 <Cepheid> So clear and readable over style.
15:19 <Cepheid> That actually simplifies things for me.
15:20 <Cepheid> Last detail is the *TYPE* of font I want to use. In the sense of variable-width or fixed-width.
15:21 <ADragonDreaming> You can also look at it like this: If everyone can read the menu and it not's /quite/ fitting with game style, you're only going to mildly annoy a small subset of nitpicky players.
15:21 <Cepheid> Variable-width allows more text on screen, but is trickier to implement. Fixed-width reduces the amount of text visible, but is easier to implement, and is easier to work with for special effects.
15:21 <ADragonDreaming> If the menu fits the game style but you have trouble reading it, you will annoy everyone.
15:21 <Cepheid> Mmhmm, true.
15:22 <Cepheid> Meanwhile, as RazorSharpFang suggested, I should just render the font to an image, load that image as a texture, and use that.
15:23 <Cepheid> Unlike La-Mulana Remake though, I'd like to try and support a resizable font, so I'll likely use a signed distance field font.
15:24 <Cepheid> Especially since that allows some funky effects with text rendering.
15:26 <Cepheid> Though, based on a quick cursory glance, multichannel signed distance fields might be better.
15:28 <RazorSharpFang> 5 other group members, but only 3 have responded to my comms.
15:28 <RazorSharpFang> I'm really hoping I don't have to go chasing down the other members who haven't responded.
15:28 <Cepheid> At least you have people who even responded.
15:28 <Cepheid> My group isn't even commenting on the second group assignment.
15:30 <Cepheid> By the way, what I'm talking about in regards to MSDFs and SDFs, RazorSharpFang: https://github.com/Chlumsky/msdfgen
15:30 <Cepheid> Basically, images are generated from fonts. In the shader, you then take the information from the image, and reconstruct the original shape.
15:31 <Cepheid> It may not make sense at first, but by using bilinear magnification and minification filters, the image is 'blurred' by scaling up and down, but the shader can reconstruct the original shape with extreme sharpness.
15:31 <Cepheid> Allowing for resizing text without having to generate a new image for a different point size.
15:32 <Cepheid> And if tweaked, can also be used for things like outlining of text.
15:32 <RazorSharpFang> I presume that this would be easier than actually storing the full vector details of the glyph.
15:32 <Cepheid> Yes.
15:32 <Cepheid> That requires lots of mathematics to calculate.
15:32 <Cepheid> I mean..
15:32 <Cepheid> You can approximate it using triangles and such, but yeah.
15:33 <Cepheid> This is much faster by a longshot.
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15:34 <Cepheid> The complexity of using an image for text rendering actually comes from figuring out how to render it efficiently.
15:34 <Cepheid> In OpenGL 3.0 and higher, you lose immediate-mode rendering.
15:36 <Cepheid> However, I already have a solution for that, so it's moot.
15:36 <Cepheid> I devised a technique for providing much more "uniform" data to a shader per shader invocation than is typically allowed by implementations.
15:38 <Cepheid> Basically, shove the relevant data into a 1D texture, then use whatever texel fetching functions that work on pixel coordinates to sample the texture instead.
15:38 <RazorSharpFang> Why would they restrict the volume of data anyhow?
15:39 <Cepheid> Efficiency.
15:39 <Cepheid> Probably also to reduce cost, as well.
15:40 <Cepheid> I'm not fully sure of the exact details, but I would imagine uniform data memory is located closer to the GPU and it's multiple cores than the VRAM.
15:40 <Cepheid> Akin to registers in a CPU.
15:40 <Cepheid> Which means that uniform memory is limited.
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15:46 <Cepheid> However, if you have a relatively smallish dataset(That is, larger than the uniform limit, but small enough to fit in say, a 256x256x4 texture), you can fit the data you want into a texture, bind the texture, then sample it from the shader.
15:46 <Cepheid> It's what I do to enable animation in my game engine.
15:46 <Cepheid> At least, tile animation, anyways.
15:46 <Cepheid> One texture holds key-value pairs of tile indices to animation data indices. The other texture holds the sequence of tiles, how long they remain on screen for, etc.
15:47 <RazorSharpFang> I like to do multiple texture swappings every frame :3
15:47 <Cepheid> That works too, I'll admit.
15:47 <Cepheid> But you have a limited number of textures usable per shader stage.
15:49 <Cepheid> Mmm, that tool for MSDF fonts that I linked to earlier... It only accepts one glyph per execution.
15:49 <Cepheid> So I'd have to generate the images, then stitch them all together afterward.
15:52 <Cepheid> It also defaults to a 32x32 image
15:54 <Cepheid> However, it also acts as a library, so I could just use it to generate an image to my specifications.
16:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: Cyberpunk Pony Music: UndreamedPanic - Raiders [Synthwave] [ http://tinyurl.com/y398cm8j ]
16:10 <Cepheid> Right, time to do some merging.
16:11 * Cepheid makes a copy of the repo before doin this.
16:11 <RazorSharpFang> What could possibly go wrong?
16:11 <RazorSharpFang> ( 125 merge conflicts )
16:14 <Cepheid> No merge conflicts to speak of.
16:14 <Cepheid> I'm more concerned I might mess up the merging.
16:14 <Cepheid> However, my concerns were unfounded.
16:20 <Cepheid> The reason for the concern was because of how I did things.
16:20 <Cepheid> When I wanted to make a new addition, I branched.
16:20 <Cepheid> But when I needed something else for that branch to work, I would branch from that branch.
16:20 <Cepheid> In effect, I had like, 4 branches, each dependent on another branch.
16:20 <Cepheid> Not the best way to do things, but for an individual person, it worked.
16:22 <Cepheid> I reached a stage where I'm happy, so I decided to merge what changes I had back into the master branch. Then I'm gonna branch again and start on something else entirely, text rendering.
16:26 <RazorSharpFang> Sounds like you're using git or subversion or something.
16:29 <Cepheid> Git.
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16:32 <Cepheid> Fortunately, text rendering should be relatively straightforward. THe hardest part is, amazingly, generating the atlas for text rendering.
16:33 <RazorSharpFang> Are you doing this without a framework/engine?
16:33 <Cepheid> Yes.
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16:54 <Cepheid> The hardest part of this is going to be the danged SDF.
16:59 <Cepheid> Almost inclined to just use a regular bitmap font for the time being, and upgrade to the SDF at a later date.
17:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Voting Opens for Top 10 Pony Videos of February [ http://tinyurl.com/yyapodog ]
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17:43 <RazorSharpFang> I'm off to sleep, good night, Cepheid. おやすみなさいませ。
17:43 <Cepheid> G'night, sleep well.
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17:46 <Cepheid> I think I'll do this the easy way.
17:54 <Cepheid> Hmm. Yeah, this is the best way to do it. No need to overcomplicate.
17:54 <Cepheid> However, I need another coffee.
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18:04 * Cepheid blares Devils Never Cry.
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18:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: SFM: Mother Of Button [ http://tinyurl.com/yxnmrwpg ]
18:11 <Cepheid> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZUN89RaP60
18:11 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about Devil May Cry 3 - Devils Never Cry - With Lyrics!!
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18:22 <Cepheid> Tizzy has a weird body form.
18:22 <Cepheid> Spitfire, his fur is nice and short, but he feels bulky, with muscle/fat covering all his skeleton, so you don't necessarily feel bone when you pet him.
18:22 <Cepheid> Feels more blobby-like.
18:22 <Cepheid> Tizzy meanwhile, is like one of those people who, no matter how much they eat, remain skin and bones, and their ribcage is practically visible through their skin. You touch them, and you can feel their bones.
18:23 <Cepheid> Tizzy is literally skin and bones, despite how much she eats.
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18:38 <Cepheid> Blah. I forgot that on Social Media, having Fun or being Funny is not allowed. Seriously, people who are downers and a-holes about obvious jokes can go **** right off to whatever corner of hell they climbed out of.
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18:57 <Cepheid> Guh, why do I have such a violent temper that can be triggered over small and insignificant things?
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19:02 <Cepheid> Kamui. That's a name I have not seen in decades. Unlikely it's the same person, though.
19:02 <Cepheid> It's too improbable.
19:02 <Kamui> were you in steamyponies back-round season one/season two
19:04 <Kamui> if not then you're probably thinking of someone else but uh where do i go for tech support cuz i need to reclaim a channel
19:04 <Kamui> also a friend of mine got false positived by the anti-spambot thing
19:05 <Kamui> ...do we even have any admins on
19:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: 2D Pony Shooter D'Lirium Releases New Big Update [ http://tinyurl.com/y54gp8ad ]
19:11 <Cepheid> Oh, to reclaim a channel, you'll want to go to the Canternet help channel. Let's see..
19:11 <Cepheid> Apparently, it's #Help
19:12 <Cepheid> Also, Kamui, no. I had a friend who lived in California way back when, when I was a youngling, who used the nickname Kamui.
19:12 <Kamui> ah, yeah that's not me
19:12 <Cepheid> Eh, worth a shot to check.
19:12 <Kamui> aye
19:12 <Cepheid> Not the first time I encountered someone from my past.
19:12 <Cepheid> Schism over there is one such person.
19:24 *** Parts: Kamui (Kamui@Gulping) ("Leaving")
19:27 <Schism> Ah, I believe that was Kamiu you recall, not Kamui.
19:27 <Schism> ;o, and all that.
19:29 <Cepheid> No, it was Kamui.
19:29 <Cepheid> I remember the name distinctly.
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20:06 * PinkieShy licks everyone
20:07 <PinkieShy> Pokemon the movie i choose you.. Made me cry..
20:07 * PinkieShy has a place in his heart for Pokemon movies and games.
20:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Comic: Shard 80 / Our Town 1:8 / TWD 1:13 / Carew 5 / Honest Apple [ http://tinyurl.com/y6z7le2d ]
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20:59 * Cepheid pokes SYCL and OpenCL.
21:04 * Cepheid goes back to C++, particularly version 11 and lambda functions.
21:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: The Pony Music Archive Is Up! Download 600 GB of pony music in one go! [ http://tinyurl.com/y6lu3akn ]
21:15 * Ali snugs into Cepheid
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21:27 * PinkieShy chirps and hugs Ali
21:31 * Ali squeaks at Personifire
21:31 * Ali actually squeaks at PinkieShy cause she tabfails
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21:51 <Cepheid> Hum, the Khronos open-source implementation of SYCL, called, and I kid you not, triSYCL, doesn't work with OpenCL GPUs.
21:52 <Cepheid> Oh, wait, there it goes. Need to define TRISYCL_OPENCL.
21:53 * Ali stares at Cepheid, doesn't understand anything coming out of their mouth right now.
21:53 <Cepheid> Yep.
21:54 <Cepheid> Hell I barely understand it.
22:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: My Little Pony G5 Open Art Event - Your Submissions! [ http://tinyurl.com/y2f2g7qd ]
22:09 <Stormspark> I really don't give a crap about G5 x_x
22:22 <Ali> Cepheid, is the .17 thing still in beta until the flaws are ironed out?
22:25 <SunsetShimmer> Stormspark - no offense, but it's way too early to say how G5 will be
22:25 <SunsetShimmer> I'm waiting on a trailer and the opening episodes before making any calls on it
22:25 * Ali snuggles up to SunsetShimmer~
22:43 *** Tempo-AFK is now known as Tempo
22:44 *** Joins: Golden (uid250033@Pony-360sli.charlton.irccloud.com)
22:45 <Golden> What the absolute heck
22:45 <Golden> Even more spammers?
22:45 <AppleDash> Where?
22:45 <Golden> Last night
22:49 <Ali> The IRCMods eventually delt with them
22:52 <Golden> That's what the third one?
23:03 <Cepheid> Ali: Pretty much, stable only pops out whenever bugs reach a certain number.
23:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff (Pony Art Gallery) #2908 [ http://tinyurl.com/y24xg4xn ]
23:23 * Schism passes around some chocolate chip cookie dough.
23:24 <Schism> (There may be some percentage of ice cream involved.)
23:24 <Cepheid> Heh.
23:42 *** Joins: JonTheVGNerd (JonTheVGNer@Pony-ifa.2r2.42.24.IP)
23:50 *** Ali is now known as Ali|Nap
23:50 * Schism especially boops the Filly_Nightmares wif ice creams.
23:51 * Filly_Nightmares mewls!
23:55 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
23:57 <PinkieShy> ... >_>
23:57 <PinkieShy> Ate a red pepper and my mouth is on fire..
23:57 <PinkieShy> Milk helped but the hot feeling is back sightly.
23:58 * Cepheid pops his head in. "Wiiiiimp~"
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