00:00 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: BronyCon May Be Over, But It's Not the Only Pony Convention! [ http://tinyurl.com/y3xmy2zb ]
00:01 <Lumindia> o 3o
00:01 <Lumindia> doot
00:01 * Schism doot~
00:02 * Schism doot doots aboard the Air Force.
00:02 <Cepheid> If red starfish are weak to fire, then blue starfish must be weak to.. Ice?
00:02 <Cepheid> Oh, wait, that's backwards.
00:04 <Schism> Logic? In Etrian Odyssey?
00:04 <Cepheid> No, I mean I got my memory backwards. o3o
00:04 <Cepheid> In any case, it's moot.
00:05 <Schism> No, no, it's just that I thought logic was verboten in EO games.
00:05 <Cepheid> I would argue the point, but I'm currently wandering around a region that, by all rights, should be flooded with water, but isn't.
00:05 * Schism checks retainers, withdraws 1m gil.
00:11 <Cepheid> Meanwhile, for my choice mid-game, I'm gonna take the Yggdroids. Outside of the bits, they're pretty potent with subclasses.
00:12 <Cepheid> Also, at max rank, Royal Veil restores 46 HP a turn, so long as Cepheid is uninjured. Which Dreamer's been doing a good job of ensuring with constantly provoking.
00:13 <Schism> Hum, lessee how terrible this set of gear is for Fashion Report.
00:14 <Cepheid> Also, blind effect on weapons seems to proc with alarming regularity.
00:23 <Lumindia> CREEPAH? Awwww man!
00:24 <Cepheid> C'mooon harvest rare drops.
00:25 <Finwe> Good evening, everypony!
00:25 <Finwe> Messrs Cepheid, Lumindia, Schism and ADragonDreaming; Mlles Ali|AFK, DashedRainbows and Filly_Nightmares.
00:25 * Finwe doffs his hat.
00:25 <Cepheid> Evenin- Wait, it's 8:25 PM?
00:25 * Lumindia makes Tsuchinoko noises!
00:25 <Lumindia> Scree!
00:25 <Finwe> 3:25 here.
00:26 *** Quits: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-c01.tl5.105.130.IP) (Connection closed)
00:26 <Lumindia> 8:26 here... well then
00:26 <Finwe> Ante meridiem. o3o
00:26 <Lumindia> I mean, I had a late shift
00:26 * Filly_Nightmares bounces at Finwe and chews on Lumindia head!
00:26 <Cepheid> Lumindia: I named a character "Skree" because of you and that damned serpent.
00:26 <Finwe> I should get some sleep, actually.
00:26 <Lumindia> hahahaha
00:26 <Finwe> !lullby
00:26 <Finwe> !lullaby
00:26 * DerpyBot carries Finwe off to bed
00:26 * DerpyBot tucks Finwe in and hums a lullaby
00:26 <Finwe> !sunshine
00:26 <DerpyBot> I'm walking on sunshine!
00:26 <DerpyBot> I'm walking on sunshine!
00:26 <DerpyBot> and don't it feel good!
00:26 <Finwe> It does.
00:26 * Lumindia becomes small, perches on Cepheid's head! Tiny babyscree!
00:26 * Finwe curls up on Filly_Nightmares and falls asleep.
00:27 *** Quits: Pony|33108 (Pony33108@Pony-i454b4.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
00:28 <Cepheid> You're also part of the same squad as Skree. Harvester squad. You go around abusing skills to avoid fights, and harvest stuff in safety for use. And monies.
00:28 <Cepheid> Then you kinda just return to the guild, sit there, and accrue experience somehow from all the fighting the main squad does.
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00:29 <Cepheid> Okay, given the strength of that weapon, I'm going to assume Abyssal Twigs come from a FOE.
00:32 * Filly_Nightmares purrs and softs under Finwe!
00:34 <Cepheid> I don't remember if this FOE has any special attacks. I do remember that it was mostly physical though, so using Provoke should... mitigate most of the damage.
00:35 <Cepheid> Ow. Okay, yeah, it has a party-wide attack.
00:36 <Cepheid> We're more than a match for it though, as it's dead. o3o
00:38 <Cepheid> And a new shiny pair of boots for the healer.
00:38 <Schism> Huzzah. o3o
00:39 <Cepheid> They do something, but I can't check the effects on them.
00:39 <Lumindia> Provoke, you say? *shirks Schism*
00:39 <Cepheid> Ah. Resistance against physical.
00:39 <Lumindia> o wo
00:42 *** Joins: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-c01.tl5.105.130.IP)
00:43 <Cepheid> Hum... 35 / 5 = 7. After maxing out harvestry, the crew has to get at least 7 levels in each of the standard harvesting skills. There's no point exceeding 60 harvests, as you can't hold more than 60 items. o3o
00:45 <Cepheid> And there's 3 such skills. Thus, they'll all need a total of... 25 levels each.
01:00 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Twilight Day - 3 Days Left to Prepare! [ http://tinyurl.com/y2gpqenf ]
01:00 <Schism> Cepheid: Isn't there a skill that lets them drag things back to camp later?
01:01 <Schism> Or am I just imagining things?
01:01 <Cepheid> Nope.
01:01 <Cepheid> There *IS* a skill that improves camp function though.
01:03 <Cepheid> There's also a skill that lets them return to town.
01:04 <Cepheid> To Market. Returns the party to the town. AKA: Ariadne Thread in skill form.
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01:20 <Cepheid> Mother. Please pay attention to what you are doing.
01:20 <Cepheid> She just took one of the pills meant for Tizzy. Fortunately, the pill is meant for a 9-pound cat.
01:28 <DashedRainbows> Finally landed
01:28 * Schism blinks at Cepheid. "..."
01:29 <Cepheid> She wasn't thinking, and was taking her own pills just moments earlier.
01:35 <Schism> ... that party composition.
01:35 <Schism> Two white mages, two gunbreakers, three dragoons, and a dancer.
01:36 <Cepheid> Heh.
01:37 <Cepheid> Geezus heck, I can already autocombat most of the first two floors of stratum 2.
01:43 <Lumindia> o.o
01:43 <Lumindia> you should have seen alliance raids right after launch
01:43 <Lumindia> 13 dancers
01:43 <Lumindia> and two dragoons
01:45 <Cepheid> "You weren't supposed to survive combat with so many fish." "... You... DO realize we have ariadne threads, and can escape whenever, right?"
01:47 <Schism> Lumindia: Oh, I know.
01:52 <Cepheid> Seriously. You can escape the dangerous situation by using an Ariadne Thread. How is that trap even remotely dangerous? How stupid do you have to be to go diving into an unknown stratum with no Ariadne Threads?
01:58 <Schism> Meanwhile, in another timeline, Cepheid pets a cute squirrel.
01:58 <Cepheid> Yep
02:00 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Discussion #1883 [ http://tinyurl.com/yyhrrkys ]
02:01 <Cepheid> Aggressive FOE. Fight or run? Given I've killed the earlier ones with ease..
02:01 * Cepheid tries.
02:05 <Cepheid> Feasible. Need better armor on the back line though.
02:06 *** Quits: Jackie2 (Jackie@Pony-c01.tl5.105.130.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
02:10 <Cepheid> Come, Mr. Skree. We need to collect materials!
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02:19 <Cepheid> Hum, time for me to put this away. I should get to laying down and resting.
02:27 *** Ali|AFK is now known as Ali
02:28 <PinkieShy> Another movie theater closed here.
02:28 <PinkieShy> AMC at the beach is no more.
02:28 <PinkieShy> after apparent 27 years of being here.
02:28 <Cepheid> My postilion has been impacted by a discharge of electrical energy from the sky.
02:29 <PinkieShy> Also got a safety razor kit heading my way :)
02:29 <PinkieShy> the brush and bowl, sampler pack, and the razor itself :D
02:36 *** Joins: RazorSharpFang (RazorSharpF@Pony-l9b5kh.tpgi.com.au)
02:37 <RazorSharpFang> Happy Saturday
02:40 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: My Little Pony in The Sims - Episode 6 - Flash Sentry and Sunset Shimmer's Hot Date [ http://tinyurl.com/y6cuz5a8 ]
02:41 * Cepheid coughs over stuff. "Hey Razor."
02:43 *** Joins: [AFK] (Bat@Squeaky.Cuddly.Batpony)
02:48 <Schism> THERE we go. 4,000 yellowscrip, for one book that tells me how to get a grand total of 4 items.
02:52 <Schism> Wait. No, 2 items.
02:55 <Cepheid> Heh. Frustrating feeling, huh?
02:56 * Ali boops RazorSharpFang, its not Saturday yet
03:01 <RazorSharpFang> It is over here.
03:01 *** Quits: WildSoft (WildSoft@Pony-jq05bt.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: Toodle-loo! Au revoir! Auf wiedersehen! Ciao! Ting tao tay!)
03:02 * PinkieShy licks Ali
03:11 <PinkieShy> Haven't watched cable tv since getting Hulu..
03:11 <PinkieShy> As soon as Hulu comes on time just flies.
03:11 <PinkieShy> I've been watching steven universe.
03:13 <ADragonDreaming> cut the cable
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04:30 *** Quits: Ali (Ali@Pony-cvibue.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving)
04:57 <Schism> That moment when you realize that the sweet little kitten that Fluttershy tried to foist off on Rainbow Dash in "May the Best Pet Win" may have turned to a life of crime and joined forces with Ahuizotl.
04:58 *** Joins: Cyan_Spark (Cyan_Spark@sparks.only.last.so.long)
05:00 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Silver Quill: Comic: Pinkie Pie Says Goodnight – Meta [ http://tinyurl.com/yyo5apg8 ]
05:02 * Schism passes around some chips with cheese and bacon gravy.
05:03 <Finwe> Good morning, my muzzled perissodactyls of minute stature.
05:03 <Schism> rAdm. Finwe.
05:03 * Schism doffs his chips. o3o
05:03 <Finwe> Messrs Schism, PinkieShy, Cepheid and RazorSharpFang; Mlles DashedRainbows and Filly_Nightmares.
05:03 * Finwe doffs his hat.
05:25 * Filly_Nightmares clambers onto Finwe
05:26 *** Joins: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-bik.6pu.237.104.IP)
05:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ConfusionRift
05:26 <ConfusionRift> Hello everypony.
05:29 *** Quits: FruitNibbler (Eogan@Pony-c5uqaa.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Connection closed)
05:30 * DashedRainbows chews on ConfusionRift's hooves
05:30 * ConfusionRift pets DashedRainbows. :P
05:30 <DashedRainbows> Yay home again
05:31 * DashedRainbows sniffs ConfusionRift. Hmm horse
05:32 <ConfusionRift> Yes. Horse. Real life horse. Smell like one, definitely one. :P
05:32 * Schism waves, then groans lightly as his shoulder goes click.
05:32 <DashedRainbows> Interesting
05:35 * DashedRainbows licks PinkieShy
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05:36 * Filly_Nightmares yawnskrees at Schism and lays on DashedRainbows
05:36 <DashedRainbows> Oof
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05:41 * DashedRainbows is a tired horse thus goes to bed
05:49 * Schism begins to enact his evil mining plans.
05:50 * ConfusionRift gives Schism a Doom Cannon. "Use it wisely. Seriously, be careful with this."
05:50 <Schism> Hah. Not quite that kind of mining.
05:50 <Schism> No, you see, I'm finally getting my crafter/gatherer gear up to snuff in FFXIV. And by snuff, I mean 'top tier'.
05:51 <ConfusionRift> Gonna go in an expedition for loot and materials for the greater good? :P
06:00 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #1657 [ http://tinyurl.com/yyr4k3jf ]
06:07 *** Quits: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
06:15 * ConfusionRift isn't sure he wants to go back to Terraria.
06:16 <ConfusionRift> That horrible can of worms I opened after Plantera's death is kinda unnerving.
06:17 <ConfusionRift> And I know it's gonna get worse after the Moon Lord.
06:43 <Schism> One of my favourite things about Terraria is that as the planet swings gradually closer to the end of its days, forever caught in corruption and light, it is ultimately, inevitably, /unquestionably/ the player's fault.
06:53 <ConfusionRift> The player didn't have to burn Plantera, or destroy the Wall of Flesh. No one tells you to do it. You just do it, because they're obstacles. And as such, the hurdles become taller and rougher to jump over.
06:54 <ConfusionRift> I love that two of the mod NPCs point to that. :P
06:56 *** Quits: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-0gbng9.dynamic.sonic.net) (Connection closed)
06:56 <ConfusionRift> "I keep hearing this thing about destroying the Wall of Flesh. That's a laugh. Do you have any idea of what it can unleash?" | "Well done. Oh, but it seems that destroying it just let loose the spreading corruption and hallow, and top of other greater dangers that will hunt us down. Oh well, so is life."
06:58 <ConfusionRift> That one gave me a dashing shield made from the wall... it's an interesting looking item.
07:00 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: My Little Pony Season 9 Episode 15 - 2,4,6 Greaaat - Stream / Discuss [ http://tinyurl.com/y32kmzxo ]
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09:24 <Foaly> !hug
09:24 <DerpyBot> Hugtiem? :3
09:24 * DerpyBot wraps her front hooves around Foaly in a tight embrace
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09:47 <Schism> Lumindia: Yaaay. 2008 gathering, 1976 perception, 800 GP on Land. (Somewhat less on stats for fisher, somewhat more on GP for fisher.)
10:03 *** Quits: Foaly (Foaly@tor.sasl.Foaly) (Client exited)
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10:36 <Cepheid> Day two, cold chills and body aches.
10:41 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
10:43 * Lumindia pats Ceph
10:43 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
10:47 <Cepheid> A good long shower should help with the cold chills at least.
10:47 <Schism> Plus, it's a chilly day today.
10:47 <Cepheid> First though, breakfast.
10:48 <Schism> 13C right now.
10:50 <Cepheid> Yeh. The parents have all the windows in the house wide open to boot. Mother insists she keeps smelling dog.
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10:55 * Jackie licks Filly_Nightmares
11:01 <Cepheid> https://www.reddit.com/r/Eyebleach/comments/coak5l/everyones_a_food_critic/
11:06 <ConfusionRift> Pfffttt!
11:07 <ConfusionRift> "They're trying to bury it to save it for later. Yeah, to save it for later."
11:07 * ConfusionRift snickers.
11:08 <Cepheid> Cats bury either because they want to protect their food source, or don't like the smell of something, yeah.
11:09 <Cepheid> There's another clip of a cat sniffing some coffee and doing the same thing.
11:11 <Lumindia> o 3o
11:11 * Lumindia snuffles at Jackie
11:14 * Jackie purrs
11:15 *** Quits: OctaveSymphony (OctaveSymph@Octave.fluffy.pegasi.mare) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
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11:20 <Cepheid> Oh great. Bitcoin is surging again. Hooray for expensive computer parts!
11:22 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
11:23 * Schism finally finishes the Akadaemia.
11:24 <Schism> That was fun, and the final boss was a blast from the past. o3o
11:24 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
11:25 <ConfusionRift> Yep, here comes the whole electricity overuse.
11:26 *** Joins: Jackie2 (Jackie@Pony-c01.tl5.105.130.IP)
11:26 *** Quits: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-c01.tl5.105.130.IP) (Connection closed)
11:27 * Schism summons the GF Quetzalcoatl and the Primal Ramuh (he of the infinite beard) to provide the world with a bit more electricity.
11:27 <Cepheid> Turns out bitcoin mining is such a drain it kills both of them.
11:28 <Schism> I'd believe it.
11:28 * ConfusionRift nods.
11:29 <Schism> Pff. A person complained about getting the Akadaemia Anyder for the third time in a row on Expert Roulette. Looking at the roulette, there are literally three dungeons on its list.
11:29 <Cepheid> Fortunately, I'm good video-card-wise for a few years.
11:30 <Schism> Heck, a lot of manufacturers are trying to produce video cards which have a lower power drain.
11:30 <ConfusionRift> You got a 2060, right?
11:30 <Cepheid> RTX 2060. One with decent memory chips.
11:30 <ConfusionRift> Aah, yeah. You're set for a while.
11:30 <Cepheid> So it works fine. And 4k gaming is still a ways off I think.
11:31 <Schism> Lumindia: So, the Eden fight against Ramuh. Think it will take place inside his beard?
11:31 <Cepheid> Even with an RTX 2000 series, 4k@60 is still hard to achieve.
11:31 <Lumindia> no, it just IS his beard
11:31 <Lumindia> and he's super buff grandpa
11:32 <ConfusionRift> You still need a beefy machine for 4k@60fps.
11:32 <Cepheid> My other issue with 4k is that UIs are not designed for it. Even with scaling, there are still problems.
11:32 <Cepheid> Better off using 1440p right now. Good midpoint betwrrn 1080p and 2160p.
11:33 <ConfusionRift> Yep, UIs just get all weird, don't scale correctly, or the games switch between 4k and 1080p when accessing the UI.
11:33 <Cepheid> That or using your own resolution.
11:33 <Cepheid> UI scaling right nowmis impaired by the lack of decent scaleable graphics rendering.
11:34 <Cepheid> Everything up until now has been bitmaps or pixmaps.
11:36 <Cepheid> 2880x1620
11:36 <Cepheid> A 16:9 resolution exactly between 1080p and 2160p
11:38 <Cepheid> But yeah. We need scalable graphics. SVG and euch. On top of that? We need fast rendering of such images.
11:39 <Cepheid> Currently the best approach is to render the graphics resources to system memory at appropriate scale, then shove 'em into an atlas and upload to the GPU. Which takes time.
11:39 <Cepheid> Also limits some effects.
11:40 <Schism> There was some discussion of Verve yesterday, which requires a fairly hefty chunk of GPU.
11:40 <Cepheid> It would be better if we could pass an SVG to a GPU and tell it to render into a renderbuffer. Make use of the parallel nature of GPUs to render.
11:41 <Cepheid> Currently the best we can do is create a shared GPGPU context, and write compute shaders to do all the work instead.
11:41 <Cepheid> But because of how difficult that is, and the limited capabilities of devices in regards to GPGPU...
11:42 <ConfusionRift> Schism: Verve, due to the fluid system it uses, it can really put a GPU to work.
11:42 * Schism nodnods.
11:43 <Cepheid> GPGPU's primary benefit is that, as stated, it uses the GPU, and a GPU is effectively a less-general-purpose device, but heavily parallel compared to a CPU.
11:43 <Cepheid> A CPU might have eight cores with two threads each, for a total of 16 logical processors.
11:44 <Cepheid> But a GPU? A GPU has hundreds of cores, if not over a thousand in the higher end cards.
11:44 <ConfusionRift> Not sure why, it reminded me of something that had to be removed in one of the Ratchet & Clack games.
11:44 <Cepheid> That said, as I understand it, you don't have access to all the cores.
11:45 <Cepheid> For example, my RTX 2060 has 1920 CUDA cores. Not sure how that translates to OpenCL or other approaches to GPGPU.
11:45 <ConfusionRift> Wouldn't using all the cores available create absurd heat?
11:45 *** Quits: Jackie2 (Jackie@Pony-c01.tl5.105.130.IP) (Connection closed)
11:45 <Cepheid> It would.
11:45 *** Joins: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-c01.tl5.105.130.IP)
11:45 <ConfusionRift> Not to mention the power draw.
11:45 <Cepheid> The draw would only be a short time frame though.
11:46 <Cepheid> GPUs spread the workload over all the cores, and each core is generally only processing either one or more vertices, or one pixel, at a time.
11:47 <Cepheid> If you're generating a bunch of small images, scaled up or down, the work time would be minimal compared to using a CPU.
11:47 <Cepheid> Especially as the link between GPU and GPU RAM is much faster than CPU and system RAM.
11:47 <Cepheid> If anything, using the CPU approach would probably consume more power and generate more heat.
11:48 * Schism curls up with a plush Great Serpent of Ronka for now.
11:48 <Cepheid> I've debated the idea of using GPGPU for 2D rendering. Apparently it's possible, as someone has done it in the past. But there are, again, bugs galore involved.
11:48 <Cepheid> A lot of the problem with scalable graphics right now is the complexity.
11:48 <Cepheid> https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/ This is the SVG 1.1 spec.
11:49 <Cepheid> https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG2/ SVG 2.
11:49 <Cepheid> The specs are massive.
11:49 *** Joins: FruitNibbler (Eogan@Pony-rpeu30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
11:49 <Cepheid> The other half of the issue is that SVG is actually not just an image definition format.
11:49 <Cepheid> It supports scripting and animation, to boot.
11:50 <Cepheid> In the context of scalable UIs, it's not designed for that, and is a poor choice.
11:51 <Cepheid> A better approach would be to take the SVG standard, strip it down, removing all of the animation and scripting stuff. Turn it into a static image format.
11:51 <Cepheid> *THEN* we can use it for UI rendering.
11:52 * Jackie thinks about cooking for the first time
11:52 <Razor> So what you really need is a format that's like set of primitives?
11:52 <Cepheid> More or less.
11:52 <Cepheid> Though, less primitive than say, using direct OpenGL or D3D drawing.
11:52 <Cepheid> Since they work on triangles and all that.
11:53 <Razor> Just serialise it into JSON, and send the file to the graphics card and let it figure it out
11:53 <Cepheid> Not that simple.
11:53 <Cepheid> There's a number of functions that are needed for purposes of UI, UI scaling and the like.
11:54 <Cepheid> Line smoothing, arcs, curves, edge smoothing, gradients(radial and linear, or even specialized extreme cases), and so on.
11:54 <Cepheid> The GPU doesn't know how to do any of that.
11:54 <Cepheid> You would have to create a GPGPU program to tell it how to do all that stuff.
11:55 <Razor> Couldn't you just go from the primitives to small-enough triangles that it'll work?
11:55 <Cepheid> You can, but there are problems even with *THAT*.
11:56 <Cepheid> Lines have limited resolution for thickness, and have lower and upper limits to begin with. It's not a simple straight 0-10 with accuracy of 0.000001.
11:56 <Cepheid> Triangle rendering is heavily optimized, and among different vendors of graphics, one triangle may not be the same.
11:57 <Cepheid> In fact, OpenGL and D3D are fairly lenient about these details.
11:57 <Jackie> https://thekittchen.com/4-ingredient-taco-chicken/ easy as ass i guess
11:57 <Cepheid> There's a minimum level of accuracy desired, but the implementors are *NOT REQUIRED* to implement them in the way the APIs specify.
11:57 <Cepheid> Even Vulkan, D3D12 and Metal are prone to this.
11:58 <Cepheid> They specify lots of things, but they're either optional, have minimum requirements, or are implementation-defined.
11:58 <Jackie> Why do people still use a proprietary, Windows only GPU spec
11:58 <Cepheid> This is often what leads to problems with rendering of games on different brands of video cards, be it performance, graphic glitches, and the like.
11:58 <Cepheid> Jackie, look at the market.
11:59 <Cepheid> What's the percentage of Windows usage out there?
11:59 <Jackie> It doesn't have to be DirectX
11:59 <Cepheid> Whether you like it or not, Windows is here to stay, and it's used a lot for gaming.
11:59 <Cepheid> OpenGL might work on Windows just fine, as does Vulkan, yes.
11:59 <Cepheid> But because D3D is directly ingrained with the OS, it has some benefits in terms of performance.
11:59 <Jackie> Is DirectX at least getting well in Linux?
11:59 <Cepheid> It's getting better.
12:00 <Jackie> I mean if it's 90% playable on Wine
12:00 <Cepheid> DXVK has made some impressive advances.
12:00 <Cepheid> In any case, it seems that Vulkan has won the current generation war.
12:00 <Jackie> How did Microsoft allow the WINE devs?
12:00 <Cepheid> It's clean-room reverse-engineering.
12:01 <Cepheid> So long as WINE doesn't use any actual Windows code(Outside of working directly with the proprietary DLLs if a user so desires, which *IS* allowed), they're allowed to do as they please.
12:01 <Jackie> Is Wine getting massive back support I guess than before?
12:01 <Cepheid> Yeah, Valve supports Wine.
12:01 <Cepheid> You may have heard of Proton?
12:01 <Jackie> Yes
12:01 <Cepheid> That's a Valve project based on WINE and DXVK.
12:02 * ConfusionRift flops asleep.
12:02 *** Quits: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-bik.6pu.237.104.IP) (Quit: Recharging the batteries. Laters! *shutdown*)
12:02 <Jackie> I mean WINE development has gotten fast
12:02 <Cepheid> There's also a layer that's being created for Direct3D 9, I forget the name, but again, it's based on Vulkan.
12:02 <Cepheid> Essentially, if you have a Vulkan-capable device, and use these layers, you can run D3D-linked apps on Linux and Mac OS X.
12:02 <Cepheid> Though Mac OS X is a bit trickier.
12:03 *** Joins: Jackie2 (Jackie@Pony-c01.tl5.105.130.IP)
12:03 *** Quits: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-c01.tl5.105.130.IP) (Connection closed)
12:03 <Cepheid> Apple wants nothing to do with Khronos now. They deprecated OpenGL entirely, don't support Vulkan, and promote Metal as the superior solution.
12:03 <Cepheid> Which only runs on Apple devices.
12:03 *** Jackie2 is now known as Jackie
12:03 <Cepheid> You think Microsoft is bad with proprietary? They got nothing on Apple.
12:03 <Cepheid> At least Microsoft has their OSI. Trust issues aside, it's a better approach than what Apple is doing.
12:04 <Jackie> Metal is something that people will rarely develop for
12:04 <Cepheid> Aaahahaha, you kidding me?
12:04 <Cepheid> Any iOS game these days uses Metal.
12:04 <Jackie> I mean it's bad for cross platform gaming for Mac
12:04 <Cepheid> In fact, it's practically required for any Apple device.
12:04 <Jackie> It's like Apple's DirectX
12:04 <Cepheid> Yeah, people target Vulkan a lot these days, for Apple devices. But it's a risky proposition.
12:05 <Cepheid> See, the problem with Vulkan for Apple devices compared to Vulkan for Microsoft APIs..
12:05 <Jackie> I wonder if Darling will be developed
12:05 <Cepheid> Is that Metal lacks features to implement a proper, complete Vulkan layer on top of it.
12:05 <Cepheid> One exists, called MoltenVK.
12:06 <Cepheid> In fact, it's backed by Khronos.
12:06 <Cepheid> But it can't do certain things because Metal lacks the support to do them.
12:06 * Schism gives Cepheid a shirt which reads, "I was going to put an / AWESOME SLOGAN / on this / but I'm not creative enough."
12:06 <Cepheid> So if you want the best performance on Apple devices, you use Metal directly.
12:06 <Jackie> I hate the fact that you need a Mac to develop software for Mac
12:06 <Cepheid> If you want cross-platform, you use MoltenVK and restrict functionality.
12:06 * Cepheid sits atop Schism. "Silly pone."
12:06 <Jackie> You're fucked if you have a Linux and/or a Windows
12:07 <Cepheid> Language.
12:07 <Cepheid> But yes and no.
12:07 <Cepheid> There are frameworks to develop Mac OS X applications on Linux and Windows.
12:07 <Cepheid> Direct development? Yeah, not possible.
12:07 <Cepheid> But you can use QT, GTK+, and other such libraries/frameworks to make iOS/MacOSX apps.
12:07 <Jackie> There are stories that you can make mac software on Linux by using a toolchain
12:08 <Cepheid> Yep.
12:08 <Cepheid> Objective-C is supported under Linux with LLVM and GCC.
12:08 <Jackie> It's kinda useless that you need a Mac to create Mac software
12:08 <Cepheid> They implement barebones frameworks to make applications, but nothing graphical last I checked.
12:08 <Jackie> Because there's no point at cross compiling
12:08 <Cepheid> That's Apple for you.
12:09 <Jackie> It's something that the OSS community partially doesn't have
12:09 <Cepheid> In the grand scheme of things, my ranking of communities and development platforms is as such: 1) Linux & Microsoft, 2) Apple, 3) The rest.
12:09 <Cepheid> Actually no.
12:09 <Cepheid> Switch #3 and #2.
12:09 <Cepheid> 1) Linux & Microsoft, 2) The rest, not including Apple. 999) Apple.
12:09 <Jackie> I just want to say that Macs are a disgrace to Unix
12:09 <Cepheid> There are concerns with Microsoft and their litigation and take-over-happy nature, but the FSF, FOSS and other such communities have their own problems.
12:10 <Cepheid> No single platform is "the best" in my eyes.
12:10 <Cepheid> Use what you want to use, develop what you want to develop.
12:10 <Cepheid> Windows just gets a lot of flak due to Microsoft's past behaviours, and the virus-prone nature of the OS, which is more an effect of the prevelance of the OS than bugs.
12:11 <Jackie> My taste is that Windows development sucks so I would use the non IDE approach
12:11 <Jackie> I'm not a fan of IDEs
12:11 <Cepheid> If a UNIX-like was much more prevelant than Windows or Apple, for example, I guarantee the relevant OS would be under assault from all sorts of viruses and exploits.
12:12 <Cepheid> The reason Windows is targeted so frequently has more to do with it's prevelance, and the fact that it's ease-of-use draws in the uneducated and unskilled, with respect to computing. It's an easy target, because it draws the easy targets.
12:12 <Cepheid> And it makes itself a big target, as well.
12:12 <Cepheid> This is why Apple viruses are on the rise.
12:12 <Jackie> Windows isn't really big to IT
12:12 <Cepheid> Eh, you'd be surprised.
12:12 <Cepheid> But yeah.
12:13 <Cepheid> UNIX or Linux tends to be the main competitors in the IT world.
12:13 <Jackie> So that's why it's so prone to virus
12:13 <Cepheid> That doesn't make it the most prevalent system though.
12:13 <Cepheid> Nah.
12:13 <Cepheid> It is literally that Windows has a large market share, and a lot of people using it don't know enough about computers.
12:13 <Cepheid> You combine the two, it's an easy, large target.
12:14 <Cepheid> Lots of money to make out of illicit activities against such a market.
12:14 <Jackie> It's possible that there's an iliterate person using Linux
12:14 <Cepheid> It is.
12:14 <Cepheid> And trust me, there have been problems with UNIX and Linux getting target as well.
12:14 <Jackie> So some exceptions
12:14 <Cepheid> With some pretty extreme exploits involved.
12:14 <Cepheid> That said, a lot of it is moot now thanks to Intel and their Speculative Execution concept.
12:15 <Jackie> Not everyone in the Unix-like community are geeks
12:15 <Cepheid> Nope.
12:15 <Jackie> And I mean not only Linux, but the BSD variants
12:15 <Cepheid> That said, the Linux/UNIX communities are not as large as the Windows communities, and their marketshare tends to focus primarily on IT and security, where in many cases, people *GENERALLY* know what they're doing.
12:16 <Cepheid> It makes it harder to attack that community, because IT personell know what needs to be done to harden the system.
12:16 <Jackie> Linux is very big in research and servers too
12:16 <Cepheid> Yes.
12:16 <Cepheid> You do realize you're talking to a CS Major student who has a 3-year diploma backing him, right? I'm not an idiot when it comes to computers.
12:16 <Cepheid> I don't mean to sound pretentions or anything, it's just... This is turning into a "preaching to the choir" type thing.
12:17 <Jackie> Research computers are powerful though
12:17 <Cepheid> Yep.
12:17 <Cepheid> FPGAs, hundreds, if not thousands of multi-core CPUs, GPUs for GPGPU..
12:17 <Jackie> If you sound supercomputers as one :D
12:17 <Jackie> *count
12:17 <Cepheid> That said, many of these machines are generally not on the Internet, or are protected by numerous security measures.
12:18 <Cepheid> At least, they should be.
12:18 * Lumindia splays onto the ground
12:18 <Lumindia> Myaaa
12:19 <Cepheid> Unfortunately, you now have a bunch of marketing geniuses(morons) who are turning supercomputers into something you can sell to users for a monthly fee.
12:19 <Cepheid> All it takes is someone finding an exploit to gain root access to the hosting machine, and we've got a problem.
12:19 <Razor> they could mine bitcoin on it
12:19 <Cepheid> They probably already do.
12:19 <Jackie> Are you talking about server hosting?
12:20 <Cepheid> Jackie: AWS and such.
12:20 <Cepheid> Amazon's cloud computing platform, for example.
12:20 <Jackie> AWS isn't bad but it's expensive. Plus points for using Linux tho
12:20 <Cepheid> Razor: Truth told, it's cheaper though to just buy rack space at a datacenter, and put in a bitmining system.
12:21 <Cepheid> That's probably because, in terms of remote computing, Linux wins out.
12:21 <Cepheid> Microsoft has a lot of work to do in regards to remote stuff if they want to catch up.
12:21 <Jackie> I can't really imagine if you run a Windows 2003 server in modern times
12:21 <Cepheid> No one would, because there are newer versions.
12:21 <Cepheid> Currently up to 2019
12:22 <Cepheid> But again, Windows is painted with a huge red bullseye mark because of it's prevelance, so utilizing it in server configurations is a risky proposition.
12:22 <Cepheid> You do not want it to be an Internet-facing OS. Place it behind a hardened firewall.
12:23 <Jackie> Windows servers have been declining due to increase of licensing fees and more holes...
12:23 <Cepheid> There's that, yeah.
12:23 <Cepheid> CERN in particular has switched to Linux/UNIX on the grounds that they cannot get educational licensing.
12:23 <Cepheid> Which would raise the cost of their work by several thousand dollars.
12:24 <Cepheid> That'd be the other reason Microsoft is losing out on servers, so yeah, they're stupid for that purpose.
12:24 <Jackie> How much does a Windows license cost actually?
12:24 <Cepheid> Depends on the version.
12:24 <Cepheid> Let me see.
12:24 <Jackie> I imagine it's a thousand dollars
12:24 <Cepheid> Windows Server 2019 Datacenter, which I actually amazingly get for free somehow, is $6,155.
12:25 <Cepheid> Let's see..
12:25 <Jackie> Facebook doesn't care and would buy many XD
12:25 <Cepheid> That's a little more expensive than the Redhat Offerings.
12:25 <Cepheid> With one exception.
12:26 <Cepheid> The best Red Hat Enterprise Linux package is $15,000.
12:26 <Cepheid> Next expensive one is $5000.
12:26 <FruitNibbler> Czech language is so easy for me
12:26 <Jackie> This is the enterprise level
12:26 <Cepheid> Yeah.
12:26 <FruitNibbler> For russian speakers it is just like learning a weird dialect, not exactly like another language
12:26 <Cepheid> So same as Windows Server 2019 Datacenter, basically.
12:27 <Jackie> So it's fair that this is like a thousand dollars
12:27 <FruitNibbler> Ah, speaking of Winders
12:27 <Cepheid> Server 2019 is an enterprise-level solution.
12:27 <Cepheid> Whether it's reliable or useful is another question.
12:27 <Cepheid> Again, it all hinges on what your needs are.
12:27 <Jackie> I wouldn't recommend it if you want to run a small server
12:27 <FruitNibbler> Win 7 has no support any more, which of the network ones are the closest to win 7?
12:28 <Cepheid> Depends. I run a game server, but I have to use Windows because the servers for the games in question run on Windows only.
12:28 <Razor> The gender-neutral time for bride/groom is broom.
12:28 <FruitNibbler> Most games are windows only
12:28 <Jackie> Server 2019 sounds too much for a small server
12:28 <FruitNibbler> Legacy and stuff
12:28 <FruitNibbler> It is slowly creeping into Linux, luckily
12:29 <FruitNibbler> More and more games are now on linux too
12:29 <Jackie> I'm referring to using Server 2019 for tiny servers which is a waste of a thousand dollars for me
12:29 <Cepheid> Not a lot of people like that, but yeah. Gaming is becoming more accessible to other OSes, primarily in thanks to Vulkan and DXVK.
12:29 <FruitNibbler> It's a shame AMD and Nvidia are not too thrilled to support Linux graphics
12:29 <Cepheid> nVidia in particular.
12:29 <Cepheid> AMD at least is helping the open-source community with it's video hardware.
12:29 <FruitNibbler> They are missing out on a potential fast-growing market share
12:29 <FruitNibbler> Not wise
12:29 <Cepheid> nVidia has, for years, been quiet.
12:30 <Cepheid> Until recently anyways.
12:30 <Jackie> You just get medium graphics but i still care about gameplay
12:30 <FruitNibbler> Nvidia is a bit... uhm... too corporate
12:30 <Cepheid> They suddenly released a lot of documentation for various generations of chips.
12:30 <FruitNibbler> To put it gently
12:30 <Cepheid> Not enough to make the 3D work more speedy, though.
12:30 <Cepheid> They are keeping mum on the GPU clocking stuff still.
12:31 <Jackie> New wave of distributions are coming out tho
12:31 <Cepheid> So the nVidia cards remain locked at the lowest GPU clocks.
12:31 <FruitNibbler> Heck, they can make Linux graphic support monetised as an app
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12:31 <Jackie> Some may be the future, some overshadowed
12:31 <FruitNibbler> Buy it like an extra package from a marketplace and use
12:31 <FruitNibbler> That's the beauty of capitalism
12:31 <Jackie> And I see that MX Linux is growing fast
12:32 <Cepheid> Unfortunately, unless the Linux community changes some of it's behaviours, I doubt Linux will ever become a prevalent OS in the world of general computer users.
12:32 <Jackie> Now that Valve cut off Ubuntu
12:32 <FruitNibbler> But no, nvidia has to be stingy because they'd rather twist the prices on the same GPU placed in ever so slightly different card types and charged through the nose for *SOFTWARE* differences
12:32 <Jackie> Is there a valuable distro for Steam no
12:32 <Jackie> *now
12:32 <Cepheid> The Linux community, much like the Microsoft and Apple communities, strike me as particularly arrogant. Moreso than the other two communities.
12:33 <FruitNibbler> Nvidia is hella unethical, but just enough to be legally not guilty
12:33 <Cepheid> They have a really bad "It's my way or the high way" approach to handling interop, which pisses me off.
12:33 <Cepheid> The Linux community strikes me as a community that, like Microsoft or Apple, if they had their own way, Linux would be the only OS out there.
12:33 <FruitNibbler> Cepheid, that's all fandoms though
12:33 <Cepheid> Yeah.
12:33 <Cepheid> I know.
12:33 <FruitNibbler> Think iphone users
12:34 <FruitNibbler> They are not exactly rational
12:34 <Cepheid> It's just that to me, it's particularly noticeable with the Linux folks.
12:34 <FruitNibbler> Linux on top of that has an "IKEA effect"
12:34 <Jackie> Eh say whatever you want
12:34 <Cepheid> In terms of arrogance ratings I see from the different communities..
12:34 <Jackie> I use Linux as a daily driver
12:34 <FruitNibbler> Linux make people care about it more because people ste up the guts of Linux manually and thus become so familiarised with the system
12:34 <FruitNibbler> So they like it more too
12:35 <Cepheid> In terms of worst to best: 1) Linux community. 2) Apple community. 3) Microsoft comminuty. 4) BSD and the rest.
12:35 <Razor> What about the ancap community?
12:35 <FruitNibbler> lol
12:35 <Cepheid> They fall under "the rest" because I've never seen them.
12:35 <Jackie> Most of the computer users are gamers
12:35 <FruitNibbler> ancap are just crazy
12:35 <FruitNibbler> Anarchy ends as soon as one big boy with a gun asks another do "do him a favour"
12:36 <Cepheid> In any case, I've been watching them all for the longest time, like, over the last decade and a half.
12:36 <Cepheid> In the Linux world, the problem groups tend to be focused around the kernel, specifically.
12:36 <Cepheid> In the Apple world, it's more about just status symbols.
12:36 <Jackie> I just don't like the game developers pissing off Linux gamers like Rocket league
12:36 <Cepheid> In Microsoft, it's about competitiveness, having the largest market share, and gaming primarily.
12:37 <Cepheid> Jackie, get used to it.
12:37 *** Quits: Razor (RazorSharpF@Pony-l9b5kh.tpgi.com.au) (Connection closed)
12:37 <Cepheid> There's one major problem with the Linux community that stalls game development for it.
12:37 <Cepheid> The more "hardcore" enthusiasts do not trust AMD, nVidia or Intel for video drivers.
12:37 <Cepheid> Proprietary drivers are verboten.
12:38 <Cepheid> Intel has problems with keeping up support of older hardware.
12:38 <Jackie> Epic Games Store deserved to be hated, so many rants
12:38 <Cepheid> AMD is getting better with FOSS drivers.
12:38 <Cepheid> nVidia is still closed-lip, but it looks like someone inside the company is shaking things up somehow.
12:38 <Cepheid> Given the recent documents release they did.
12:38 <Jackie> Is Linux having a forseeable future though?
12:38 <FruitNibbler> funny that proprietary drivers are not welcome
12:38 <Cepheid> It'll stay relevant.
12:39 <FruitNibbler> since every single driver was proprietary at the start
12:39 <Cepheid> Whether or not it'll ever overtake Apple or Microsoft? Again, depends on changes in the community.
12:39 <Cepheid> A good step would be improving interop with other OSes, despite complaining from kernel devs and the like.
12:39 <Jackie> Because it would suck if Linux gets back into the 2000s
12:39 <Cepheid> An example of what I mean was in regards to exFAT.
12:39 <FruitNibbler> apple is so against other OSes being anywhere near their thing it is funny
12:39 <Cepheid> A proprietary flash-based filesystem made by Microsoft.
12:39 <Jackie> Not much support on most drivers, games, options etc
12:40 <Cepheid> A while back, a dev chimed in about wanting to do reverse-engineering and implementing a proper filesystem driver for exFAT in Linux.
12:40 <FruitNibbler> It is about time to invent new partitioning method
12:40 <Cepheid> Theo, one of the major developers of the ext# filesystems, basically hard-line said no, that it wasn't worth the time to interoperate with a company or OS that isn't about interop, etc.
12:40 <FruitNibbler> Both NTFS and FAT32 are a bit outdated for the age of terabyte drives
12:41 <FruitNibbler> And that is an understatement
12:41 <Jackie> NTFS is slow tho
12:41 <Cepheid> Then comes in a Microsoft OSI dev, who chimed in that he'd put forward a request to remove all the patents and such on exFAT and release the spec as open-source.
12:41 <Cepheid> Had they just bloody asked, the kernel devs might have been able to get a better chance at interop.
12:41 <Cepheid> Problem is, some people are so hard-line against one thing or another, the idea of asking is below them.
12:41 <Cepheid> Pisses me off.
12:42 <FruitNibbler> Fanboys tend to become dogmatic
12:42 * Cepheid is an advocate for OS interop. The various OSes aren't going to dissappear out of the blue anytime soon, maybe not even within his lifespan. Better to make them work with one another better.
12:42 <FruitNibbler> Just how ingroup mentality is
12:42 <Cepheid> Get 'em to co-operate better, and people will be more likely to move between them.
12:42 <Cepheid> That's why I love DXVK.
12:42 <FruitNibbler> But if OSes will speak to each-other, users will largely migrate to one that does most things the best
12:43 <Cepheid> It's DirectX 10 & 11 implemented on top of Vulkan, so any Vulkan-capable device and OS is capable of using it to run Direct3D 10 & 11 stuff.
12:43 <Cepheid> Hell, you can even use DXVK on Windows.
12:43 <FruitNibbler> Unless the OSes specialise in certain niches, they have nothing to gain from interop
12:43 <Cepheid> Where it makes no logical sense to do so. o3o
12:43 <FruitNibbler> At least financially
12:43 <Jackie> Kinda means that using games with Wine could work well
12:43 <Cepheid> Then we got D9VK, now. Which is similar to DXVK, but for Direct3D 9.
12:43 <Cepheid> Of which a good majority of games use.
12:44 <Cepheid> It's not in the best shape, but it's making an effort to do the impossible, at least.
12:44 <Jackie> I suppose we should keep Wine development good that we can prevent from Microsoft interfering
12:45 <Cepheid> Truth told, I'd probably be a good kernel dev for making drivers that allow better interop between Linux, Windows and MacOSX. Or a software API dev to increase interop between platforms by creating a more generic software API implementation, etc.
12:45 <Jackie> Becuase implementing DXVK was so difficult for them
12:45 <Cepheid> In particular, I want to work on .NET Core 3, with it's WPF and WinForms support. Implement support for using both under Linux.
12:46 <Cepheid> Jackie: Yeah, if I recall, the WINE devs said that it was either extremely hard or impossible, if I recall. That said, I also think they decry DXVK right now.
12:46 <Cepheid> They don't like it for some stupid reason I forget.
12:48 <Lumindia> (⌐■_■)
12:49 * Cepheid really should get back to work on his X11-XCB generator for C#.
12:49 <Cepheid> It takes the same xproto library that XCB uses to generate it's C code, and generates appropriate C# code.
12:50 <Cepheid> End-result is a native library that uses entirely C# code to communicate with an X11 server, instead of having to create unsafe code barriers and bindings to library functions.
12:50 <Cepheid> I'm also aiming for CLS-compliance, so it'll run on any .NET language.
12:51 <Cepheid> It'd be a good starting step for implementing WPF and WinForms under Linux. Though probably wouldn't use my implementation as it'd be garbage.
12:52 <Cepheid> That said the XCB/xproto devs could stand to keep their documentation up to date.
12:52 <Cepheid> Anyhow, back in a bit. Gonna go take a shower before I become too sore to take one.
12:56 *** Joins: ADragonHoarding (Mibbit@Pony-krk.qod.41.69.IP)
13:03 <Jackie> https://myfirstshiba.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Shiba-Inu-Body-reduced.jpg
13:03 <Jackie> At first I thought it's a meme
13:04 <Cepheid> Oh that felt good. Sorta.
13:04 <Cepheid> Bloody pneumonia.
13:07 <Cepheid> Hum, let's see, where was I on parsing all the information..?
13:11 <Cepheid> Looks like I was working on processing replies.
13:13 <Cepheid> Let's get a simple implementation working first.
13:28 <Cepheid> Coding while delerious and sick. This is a poor idea.
13:31 <ADragonHoarding> Yes.
13:37 *** Joins: Bread (SCP-3764-1@Pony-mh59p8.k7dv.isrq.0846.2601.IP)
13:38 <Bread> Good morning Mr.McDougall.
13:38 <Bread> !roulette
13:39 <Bread> Rolling for roulette, gotta get 14 or higher
13:39 <Bread> !roll 1d20
13:40 * Bread runs over to bot room to roll the darn die
13:40 <Bread> 13.
13:48 *** Joins: Toast (SCP-3764-1@Pony-jd8t6h.va.comcast.net)
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13:55 <ADragonHoarding> ...roulette?
13:55 <ADragonHoarding> also, yeah, no dicebot in here.
13:56 *** Quits: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-c01.tl5.105.130.IP) (Quit: qicr for android: faster and better)
14:06 <Toast> Used to have some scripts on myself, when someone would !roulette i would say 1-6, where 5 would kick you from the group.
14:06 <Toast> Bunch of old stuff i used to do for giggles.
14:18 *** Quits: Toast (SCP-3764-1@Pony-jd8t6h.va.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
14:19 * Cepheid lifts his sword from the ground, assaults his code, despite his current condition. He succeeds and creates new abstractions and solutions to old problems!
14:20 <Cepheid> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPvBxglPNRI Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty certain this is EO3's true final boss theme.
14:20 <DerpyBot> I need to ask Twilight about that one.
14:20 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about YouTube
14:24 *** Joins: Toast (SCP-3764-1@Pony-trglnq.sub-174-253-140.myvzw.com)
14:42 <Lumindia> https://i.imgur.com/8uC2Rd6.png Time to make some DOSH
14:50 <Cepheid> Heh.
14:55 *** Quits: ChaosMageX-HTPC (CMXHTPC@Pony-nc32n2.tx.comcast.net) (Quit: )
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14:58 <Cepheid> I need some tylenol.
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15:00 <Cepheid> I'm hot-blooded, check it and see~ I got a fever of 101~!
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15:11 * Filly_Nightmares meows at Toast
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15:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Ali Ali
15:12 * Ali tucks Cepheid back into bed, they're sick!
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15:25 <Lumindia> !ping
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15:39 * Ali flumps into Lumindia
15:39 <Cepheid> I also have an inner-ear infection now.
15:39 * Lumindia pats
15:39 <Lumindia> eeesh
15:40 <Cepheid> My immune system is, unofficially, compromised.
15:40 <Cepheid> Any time I get sick, it takes away from fighting off the chronic sinus infection.
15:40 <Cepheid> Which ultimately results in *THAT* growing, and affecting practically everything connected to it.
15:43 <Cepheid> When I'm sick, my mind is a collection of bad ideas.
15:44 <Cepheid> Case in point, it just came up with this terrible idea that the next time I get sick with something, and end up like this? I just ride it out, no antibiotics, until I find myself legitimately delerious or unconscious.
15:44 <ADragonHoarding> I suggest not doing this.
15:44 <Cepheid> So that I end up in a hospital, which is better equipped to examine my head.
15:44 <Cepheid> Of course, I said it was a bad idea.
15:44 <Cepheid> It's just gods.
15:45 <Cepheid> Any time I get sick with anything more serious than a cold, I end up confined to bed or worse.
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15:47 <Cepheid> Heavens help me if I ever get a full-time job with strict attendance.
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15:59 * Cepheid coughs up a lung.
16:02 <Cepheid> ...
16:03 * Ali reinstalls lung back into Cepheid
16:03 <Cepheid> So, apparently the game I ordered the other day, it was due to arrive on Monday.
16:03 <Cepheid> It's already in Glouceseter, Ontario.
16:03 <Cepheid> Orleans is right next to Gloucester, if not a part of it. I honestly don't know how this entire breakup of regions works.
16:04 <Cepheid> Okay, time to stop coding. My head hurts too much to do it.
16:05 <Cepheid> Why the hell do I have such a strong weapon in my purchase list? It's not an end-game weapon, but it's definitely out of depth for where I am.
16:06 <Cepheid> .. Apparently it is... DESIGNED for this stratum. It's secondary item comes from chop points.
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16:24 <Cepheid> I need food.
16:27 <Cepheid> https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/cohahv/new_group/?st=jz5r4vv3&sh=0cd270ec This strikes me as a lot of us.
16:30 <Cepheid> Least my headache is dissipating now.
16:30 <Ali> Well thanks factorio for this test going slighty wrong. Two 5 bug bases right near start.
16:31 <Cepheid> https://www.reddit.com/r/CrappyDesign/comments/cogiq0/imagine_being_drunk/?st=jz5ra1y4&sh=cc08c433 Schism. o3o
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16:40 <Ali> Cepheid, sorry can't comprehend that reddit thing, what are groups and I usually don't get into any.
16:46 <Cepheid> Groups in the context of that comic is basically just, any group of friends, etc.
16:51 <Ali> Friends? What are those? *slapped*
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16:58 <Cepheid> I'm sore, I have a headache, I'm tired, and I ache everywhere. Please don't make jokes like that. I don't need minor agitation from self-denegrative behaviour. :P
17:00 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Series Finale Episode Title Revealed? [ http://tinyurl.com/y67rtbho ]
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17:07 * Filly_Nightmares lays on Toast
17:07 <Cepheid> Okay then. I am in a lot of pain. Time to take a sedative and lay down. then sleep a bit.
17:10 <Ali> Take care of yourself Cepheid
17:15 * Toast just got lit up by wasps while weedeating
17:16 <Toast> If someone didnt know a such thing as evil, they could learn from wasps.
17:17 *** Toast is now known as Toast|YardWork
17:17 <Toast|YardWork> Be back soon(ish)
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17:30 <Cepheid> I don't suppose anyone here lives near Orleans, Ontario, would they?
17:30 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #1657 [ http://tinyurl.com/yyr4k3jf ]
17:30 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Silver Quill: Comic: Pinkie Pie Says Goodnight – Meta [ http://tinyurl.com/yyo5apg8 ]
17:30 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: My Little Pony Season 9 Episode 15 - 2,4,6 Greaaat - Stream / Discuss [ http://tinyurl.com/y32kmzxo ]
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17:58 <Cepheid> Waiting on that hallucination to kick in anytime now.
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18:00 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: My Little Pony Cosplay Compilation #84 [ http://tinyurl.com/yxzeqfjt ]
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19:10 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: Show Song Remix: Daniel Ingram - Love is in Bloom (Hoofy Remix) [Hooves Up] [ http://tinyurl.com/y6doabpx ]
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19:44 *** Ali is now known as Ali|Nap
20:00 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff (Pony Art Gallery) #3065 [ http://tinyurl.com/yy8m7xns ]
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20:32 <PinkieShy> hihi
20:38 <PinkieShy> Rocko's modern life static cling was amazing..
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20:40 <Schism> Remains of one-meter parrot-shaped dinosaur found in New Zealand.
20:40 <PinkieShy> Also finally decided to try a different shampoo.. apparently it has almonds and shea butter..
20:52 <Schism> Cepheid: https://twitter.com/SAChakrabooks/status/1160280209251348481
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21:03 <Schism> Cepheid: Good lord, too. I hope those sedatives are helping...
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21:32 <Cepheid> Heh. And no, not really. gonna go get something to eat, take more Tylenol and see what happens.
21:32 <Schism> Hope it helps... the food as well. @_@
21:40 * DashedRainbows licks PinkieShy repeatedly
21:41 * PinkieShy tastes like skittles
21:44 * Cepheid curls up on the floor.
21:44 * Schism places a cat on Cepheid, and an icepack.
21:44 <Schism> Wish I were close enough to check in on ya. :<
21:48 <Lumindia> it's funny watching the melee DPS yeet themselves off the platform in Leviathan
21:48 <Schism> Regular or savage?
21:49 <Schism> I guess I should also ask, Levi EX, Eden, or Eden Savage?
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22:00 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: TRIXIE Music: Nyancat380 - The great and lonely $uicide road [Psytrance] [ http://tinyurl.com/y6764w7r ]
22:02 *** Ali|Nap is now known as Ali
22:02 * Ali snuggles on Schism
22:04 * DashedRainbows also licks Ali till she's dripping
22:05 * Ali drips all over DashedRainbows
22:06 * DashedRainbows barks
22:06 *** Ali changes topic to 'Welcome to #EquestriaDaily! This channel is rated All Ages | Guide and rules: http://derpy.me/EqDRules S9E14 is not allowed for discussion.[Unaired US episodes are also disallowed for discussion.]'
22:07 * DashedRainbows gives Ali a hammer
22:08 * Ali squeaks
22:13 <PinkieShy> I had just woken from a nap and saw this on twitter.. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBluDdpUEAAv0cb?format=jpg&name=small I instantly thought it was a soap dispenser until I looked at it a 2nd time.
22:13 <PinkieShy> How my just waken self thought that was a soap dispenser is beyond me.
22:14 <Cepheid> So, approximate chronology of the EO series. EOV, EO1, EO2, EO3(Approximate. Also issues in it s nature regsrding getting the whole story.) EO4, EOMD1, EOMD2(? Unknown. Never released stateside.) And then convergence(? None of the games referenced the others, so...) to Nexus.
22:16 <Cepheid> Truth told it is possible the first four games all took place at the same time. EO3 is a weird one. To get the true ending you jeed to complete at least two cycles. You cannot complete the full game through one playthrough.
22:17 <Cepheid> You need two key items. You only get one of them per playthrough, and only if you slternate your vhoice at a branching point.
22:17 * Schism nods, "And the game, being what it is, doesn't tell you that at the time."
22:18 <Cepheid> Nah. There are hints.
22:18 <Cepheid> In fact I recall it being pretty obvious.
22:19 <PinkieShy> Having to wait until the 19th to get everything i ordered from amazon.. >_>
22:19 <Cepheid> That said, the requirement makes the game a nebulous case. Officially, somehow, both sides are canon.
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22:20 <Cepheid> Probably an explanation, and I just don't recall it. I know roughly the key points of the full story due to spoilering a few years back, but I don't remember how they relate to the rest of the story.
22:22 <Cepheid> But as for Nexus, I'm under the impression that the 8th tree has somehow created a distortion in time-and-space. As far as I know, with a couple of exceptions, none of the other games reference one another.
22:22 <Cepheid> Etrian Mystery Dungeon explicitly references several games. I presume Mystery Dungeon 2 does as well.
22:22 <Cepheid> And EOV has a reference that helps me figure out it's chronological ordering.
22:22 * Schism nodnods.
22:29 <Cepheid> Long story short, my thoughts about the series are straightforward: EO5 is chronologically first. EO1 through 4 took place at the same time, but are distinct worlds. Etrian Mystery Dungeon 1 & 2 take place sometime after the Yggdrasil Tree of Nexus appears, but before attempts to explore it happen. The Nexus Yggdrasil Tree probably warped space and time, connecting all the worlds together, allowing each independent world
22:29 <Cepheid> to encounter each other.
22:29 <Cepheid> Hum, the tylenol with codeine is working much better.
22:30 <Cepheid> Still got some muscle pains here and there, but I feel better.
22:30 <Cepheid> Some of these pains I think are due to tension, too. There's a few spots on my head that if I rub them and massage them, the pain goes away for a bit. I am known for grinding my teeth, moreso when in pain and such. Probably tensing muscles way too hard for a very long time.
22:50 <Cepheid> Hum.
22:50 <Cepheid> According to Ford, I should be in jail.
23:00 <Schism> According to Ford, quite a lot of people should be in jail. I'm probably one, too.
23:03 <Cepheid> Mmhmm. He made comments about how "people with mental illness" should be in jail. He didn't express which types of mental illness in his comments.
23:04 <Schism> That would require that he distinguish between more than 'my sorts of people' and 'CRAAAAAAZY people!'
23:08 *** Quits: shelvacu (maudisbest@Pony-95r.ssi.186.54.IP) (Quit: Maud Pie Is Best Pony)
23:10 <Cepheid> It came in light of a known murderer just walking out of a treatment center/prison and then out of the country.
23:10 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Comics: Space Ponyos - Issue #1 Side Comic / Luna Castle / Clear the Room / ANL #36 / TWD #28 / Lost Sun #3 / Pony Washing #6 / AoS #4.11 [ http://tinyurl.com/y5edtywr ]
23:10 <Cepheid> But with his comments, he made very little reference to which mental illnesses he's concerned about.
23:15 <Schism> Of course. Which just elides to the cultural assumption that any sort of mental illness is a deviation, that it's wrong, and that mentally ill folks are the most violent part of society (which is categorically wrong.)
23:16 * Schism offers Cepheid some of this No-Name Sour Cream, with No-Name Onion Soup Mix, with No-Name Ruffled Potato Chips, and a little bit of No-Name Black Pepper.
23:19 * Cepheid noms.
23:21 <Schism> Hum. Cactpot draw tonight. Not going to win again, of course, but that's standard.
23:21 * Schism used up all his luck last night melding materia to his gear.
23:28 <PinkieShy> The old saying you pay for what you get came back to haunt me again today :P
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23:28 <PinkieShy> Something i bought 2 weeks ago from dollar tree broke a little, still usable but the glue part of it is fully exposed now.
23:43 * Cepheid loads up EO3.
23:46 <Cepheid> Let's see if I can take a third-level FOE out. Also try to work on a second-level FOE. They're set up in a funky manner which makes poking them tricky.
23:46 <Cepheid> Basically, they are a set of 3 FOEs in a row, that patrol in a small square.
23:46 <Cepheid> Obviously, attacking the head is suicide.
23:47 *** Quits: Toast (SCP-3764-1@Pony-jd8t6h.va.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
23:50 <Cepheid> ... Nope.
23:50 <Cepheid> Can't kill 'em in time.
23:58 <Cepheid> I definitely need to get access to subclasses and soon.
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