00:05 *** Quits: Jackie (Jarva@Pony-drh.lm3.9.61.IP) (Connection closed)
00:07 *** Joins: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-drh.lm3.9.61.IP)
00:08 *** Quits: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-drh.lm3.9.61.IP) (Connection closed)
00:08 *** Joins: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-drh.lm3.9.61.IP)
00:09 <Jackie> What does Ali look like?
00:09 * Ali looks like a pony :P
00:10 * Jackie wants a pony pic of Ali
00:23 *** Quits: Fn (Eogan@Pony-nq61sn.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Connection closed)
00:24 *** Quits: Chaosweaver (Chaos@Evil.Lives.Here) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.4+deb7 - https://znc.in)
00:32 <Nedemai> I might have that somewhere
00:32 <Nedemai> also, have a pony pic
00:32 <Nedemai> https://www.deviantart.com/nedemai/art/Nede-2020-825376194
00:33 <Nedemai> aha!
00:33 <Nedemai> Jackie, this is what ali looks like https://www.deviantart.com/nedemai/art/Ali-Pone-569455863
00:34 *** Joins: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net)
00:34 <Ali> God that's 4 years old
00:35 <Nedemai> >.>
00:35 <Jackie> No wonder why you lost connection with Ali.
00:35 <Nedemai> thats just about the time I got involved with _them_
00:41 * Filly_Nightmares sneezies at Ali
00:48 *** Quits: Pony|29954 (Pony29954@Pony-i454b4.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
01:05 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: 2021 Charity Calendar Looking for Artists [ http://tinyurl.com/s753v7t ]
01:06 *** Joins: Golden (uid250033@Pony-360sli.charlton.irccloud.com)
01:08 * Golden flops.
01:14 <Starlight_Glimmer> Happy new year everypony!
01:15 * Jackie picks up Filly_Nightmares
01:15 <Golden> To you too Starlight.
01:16 * Filly_Nightmares floofs up!
01:16 * Jackie nuzzles bat
01:17 * Starlight_Glimmer wonders if squeezing Golden will yield cider
01:18 * Golden doesn't yield cider if squeezed
01:18 * Jackie nuzzles Filly_Nightmares' floof
01:19 * Filly_Nightmares nomfs Jackie snoot
01:20 <Starlight_Glimmer> But but but golden delicious ... :(
01:21 * Jackie rubs Filly_Nightmares back
01:21 * Filly_Nightmares eees and flap flappies her wingies!
01:22 * Jackie cuddles little bat
01:25 * Golden sighs. The crimson Unicorn was somewhat used to the confusion.
01:26 <PinkieShy> It seems the crashers are going high and crazy tonight in VR..
01:27 * Jackie gives Filly_Nightmares marshallows
01:44 *** Quits: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-drh.lm3.9.61.IP) (Quit: qicr for android: faster and better)
01:47 *** Joins: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-8q0glj.dynamic.sonic.net)
01:57 * Filly_Nightmares rolls onto her back and sprawls out!
02:02 * Schism makes... pumpkin pie!
02:05 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Discussion #2026 [ http://tinyurl.com/w66nl8e ]
02:42 * Cepheid steals the pumpkin pie and ravenously consumes it. He claws at anyone who comes close, like a kitten protecting its food. He then wanders off to bed coughing up a storm.
02:49 * Cyan_Spark pets Cepheid
02:49 * Golden rolls around.
02:53 <Golden> I got blocked by the cats movie twitter xD
02:53 <ADragonDreaming> orly
02:53 <Golden> Yeah.
02:53 <Schism> Spot the human hand!
02:53 <Golden> I made a joke about them losing 70 million
02:57 *** Joins: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-drh.lm3.9.61.IP)
02:57 *** Filly_Nightmares is now known as Surreal_Nightmares
02:58 *** Joins: Changeling_Nightmares (Surreal@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone)
02:58 <Jackie> I made a 17x17 world, Schism.
03:05 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: Pony Vocal Sampling Music: 7th Stive - Crime Wave [Bass House] [ http://tinyurl.com/r7tkjhn ]
03:35 <PinkieShy> about an hour 30 more minutes left :3
03:35 * PinkieShy starts to fire the party cannons
03:37 * Golden has three hours and thirty hours left
03:38 <Jackie> Got to be damning me. DF crashed.
05:01 * PinkieShy blasts the biggest cannon of all
05:01 <PinkieShy> Happy new year 2020 for me now..
05:05 * Ali sits in the corner with the biggest pair of noise cancelers she can find.
05:05 *** Joins: Crystal_Shards (SolysP@IsBestPony)
05:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Crystal_Shards
05:05 <Crystal_Shards> Happy New Year
05:10 * PinkieShy hugs Ali and offers a 2020 pie
05:11 * Ali just ate a very rich cake, can't stands no more
05:17 * PrincessRainbows licks the adorable Ali horse
05:18 * Ali thinks PrincessRainbows licked another pony cause she's not adorable.
05:19 * PinkieShy dresses Ali up in the more cutest adorable stuff
05:19 <PinkieShy> Cute :P
05:19 * Ali was a cardboard cutout
05:20 <PrincessRainbows> I've got proof! But regardless Ali is a good horse
05:27 <Crystal_Shards> yes
05:27 <Crystal_Shards> Ali is best horse
05:28 <Schism> And is adorbs.
05:28 * Schism whistles innocently.
05:28 <Crystal_Shards> yes
05:28 * PinkieShy disappears in a poof of smoke on a time bike
05:29 * PinkieShy reappears suddenly with a calendar that is dated 2120
05:40 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
05:51 *** Quits: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-drh.lm3.9.61.IP) (Client exited)
06:08 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
06:12 *** Joins: RazorSharpFang (RazorSharpF@Pony-b2khqf.tpgi.com.au)
06:24 <Golden> Hm
06:37 * PrincessRainbows barks and sniffs everypony which all smell like horse. Nini
06:39 <Crystal_Shards> ninb
06:41 <PinkieShy> Just think guys. 20 years ago.. People were freaking out about Y2K thinking the end was here.
06:41 <PinkieShy> Hard to believe that was 20 years ago..
06:48 <Crystal_Shards> no, the actual y2k is 2038
06:57 *** Quits: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net) (Connection closed)
07:00 *** Quits: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-8q0glj.dynamic.sonic.net) (Connection closed)
07:03 *** Changeling_Nightmares is now known as Filly_Nightmares
07:03 * Filly_Nightmares bounce
07:37 * Schism offers the Filly_Nightmares a big bowl of cheesy spicy corn.
07:45 *** Joins: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-147.irn.56.193.IP)
07:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ConfusionRift
07:45 <ConfusionRift> Hello everypony. And happy new year!
07:50 <WurstPoni> Happy New Years all
08:01 * PrincessRainbows sniffs ConfusionRift who also smells like horse
08:02 * Filly_Nightmares bounces at new year!
08:06 * ConfusionRift pets PrincessRainbows. :P
08:07 * ConfusionRift also pets Filly_Nightmares. :P
08:10 * PrincessRainbows looks at ConfusionRift and raises her front hooves. Uppy?
08:10 * ConfusionRift grabs PrincessRainbows and continues petting.
08:11 <PrincessRainbows> Yay!
08:19 * PrincessRainbows flap flaps. Whee!
08:56 *** Quits: Golden (uid250033@Pony-360sli.charlton.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
09:40 *** Quits: Ali (Ali@Pony-cvibue.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving)
10:44 *** Quits: Filly_Nightmares (Surreal@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone) (Connection closed)
11:15 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #1799 [ http://tinyurl.com/txayp3a ]
11:36 *** Quits: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-147.irn.56.193.IP) (Quit: Recharging the batteries. Laters! *shutdown*)
12:05 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Comics: New Decade / Dazzlings Christmas / ANL #51 / TWD #47 / Pharaoh #1 / Sapphic #13 [ http://tinyurl.com/s7abq5n ]
12:58 <Nedemai> https://www.deviantart.com/nedemai/art/Nede-2020-825376194
12:58 <Nedemai> :3
13:08 <Nedemai> Happy new year
13:16 *** Joins: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-drh.lm3.9.61.IP)
13:16 * Jackie cuddles Nedemai
13:17 <Nedemai> hi Jackie
13:17 * Nedemai cuddles
13:17 * Jackie purrs
13:24 <Nedemai> AVGN is running out of bad NES games. Hes reviewing majoras mask
13:24 <Nedemai> but to be fair, that game Peeved me off badly
13:30 <Jackie> I'm making an F major song
13:31 <Nedemai> cool
13:31 <Nedemai> im trying to wake up
13:39 <RazorSharpFang> I found Majora's mask to be too difficult for me to get into.
13:54 <Jackie> Turns out composing midi in piano is easy
14:20 <Jackie> Let me get this straight: triplets are like non-division crap that fits in between 2 notes
14:20 <Jackie> Let me get this straight: triplets are like non-division crap that fits in between 2 notes
14:20 <Jackie> So if you're telling me, does a triplet of half notes fit into a whole note?
14:21 <Jackie> Because triplets are the most alien thing I've seen in sheet music.
14:23 <Nedemai> bbl
14:23 *** Quits: Nedemai (Nedemai@Pony-f3d.g65.158.104.IP) (Quit: Leaving)
14:32 <Jackie> First Wednesday my dudes
15:14 <Crystal_Shards> First day my dudes
15:18 <Jackie> Crystal_Shards, ever listen to Final Fantasy music?
15:18 <Crystal_Shards> no
15:18 <Crystal_Shards> Final Fantasy is not my jam
15:20 <Jackie> Fina
15:20 <Jackie> Final Fantasy V has a lot of sad music.
15:21 <Crystal_Shards> I don't need more sadness in my life
15:21 <Jackie> Why?
15:25 <Crystal_Shards> Why doe anyone need more sadness in their life
15:28 <RazorSharpFang> Jackie, I think of triplets like saying "Pretend we're in 3/4 time for these notes specifically"
15:28 <Jackie> RazorSharpFang, that makes it more confusing
15:29 <RazorSharpFang> Triplet meaning in thirds.
15:34 <Jackie> RazorSharpFang, what makes a triplet of 1/8ths?
15:35 <Jackie> I can't believe Für Elise commonly uses triplets
15:36 <RazorSharpFang> I don't know the specifics, but a triplet takes a defined segment of time and says "play three notes evenly over this"
15:44 <Schism> Jackie, Final Fantasy V also had Battle on the Big Bridge.
15:46 <Jackie> Schism, I like the Nostalgia song
15:46 <ADragonDreaming> computer, y u do dis
15:47 <ADragonDreaming> you are connected to network no problem, suddenly you connect to network but no internet access via previously working network.
15:52 *** Quits: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-drh.lm3.9.61.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
15:52 <RazorSharpFang> It's Russian interference.
15:56 *** Quits: RazorSharpFang (RazorSharpF@Pony-b2khqf.tpgi.com.au) (Connection closed)
17:05 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: S01E09 "Bridle Gossip" Music: Cynifree - Mumbo Jumbo [Electro/Tribal House] [ http://tinyurl.com/wofhcdt ]
17:07 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
17:08 *** Quits: Taoki (MirceaKitsu@Pony-7ul.gjo.113.93.IP) (Quit: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mircea/)
17:12 *** Joins: Taoki (MirceaKitsu@Pony-7ul.gjo.113.93.IP)
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17:48 *** Joins: Nedemai (I@Pony-4p591n.dsl.bell.ca)
17:54 *** Joins: Ali (Ali@Pony-cvibue.iplsin.sbcglobal.net)
17:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Ali Ali
17:55 <Nedemai> ALI
17:55 *** Joins: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-8q0glj.dynamic.sonic.net)
17:55 * Ali squeaks
17:55 * Nedemai hugs
17:55 * Ali leans into hugs
17:55 <Nedemai> without facebook, all I got to lurk on now are discord and irc channels
17:55 <Nedemai> this honestly feels like a massive improvement
17:56 * Ali ponyshrugs, never used facebook
17:58 *** Joins: RyuImperator (RyuImperato@Pony-trb5lu.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
17:58 <Nedemai> its the lowest form of social media
17:59 <Ali> Again wouldn't know Nedi
17:59 <Starlight_Glimmer> I'm so glad I didn't touch anything related to Facebook
18:00 <Starlight_Glimmer> Comes with the upside of receiving a whole lot less useless spam from relatives too
18:00 <Starlight_Glimmer> Since I don't have WhatsApp
18:00 *** Joins: Golden (uid250033@Pony-360sli.charlton.irccloud.com)
18:01 <Ali> I never understood the NEED for a place to post everything you're doing
18:01 <Golden> Hmm
18:02 *** Quits: Lumindia (quassel@Pony-45lvcs.pbg.ptd.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
18:02 <Nedemai> I've read some studies that show that facebook actually causes a lot of emotional issues
18:03 <Nedemai> or can at the very least aggravate them
18:04 <Starlight_Glimmer> Ali: It's called self portrayal and narcissism
18:05 <Starlight_Glimmer> Don't get me wrong: Keeping in touch with people and reconnecting with old friends is a great idea in theory
18:05 <Ali> But hearing every little *yay* post they put up would be annoying
18:05 <Starlight_Glimmer> Facebook or worse Instagram just do a poor job of doing that
18:05 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Pony Plushie Compilation #371 [ http://tinyurl.com/wwf8mcl ]
18:06 <Nedemai> Facebook is kinda like "hey look im living an awesome life" meanwhile its not like that at all
18:06 <Crystal_Shards> comparing highlights to your life
18:07 <Nedemai> people actually got mad at me for being way too real
18:07 <Ali> Of course they would
18:07 <Starlight_Glimmer> Ironically these social networks show the issue with democracy best: It's a popularity contest
18:07 <Ali> Cause stupid social network
18:07 <Ali> Its all about who has the largest e *removed*
18:07 <Nedemai> hahahah
18:08 <Nedemai> Ali, this reminds me of Vegeta turning left
18:08 * Ali headtilts
18:08 <Nedemai> its an obscure reference I dont expect you to get it
18:08 * Ali doesn't get it, thus the confused look.
18:09 <Starlight_Glimmer> Even Twitter - which I do use, but primarily reading and reaching out to support because that somehiw yields better results - is hugely flawed
18:10 <Starlight_Glimmer> There was a faked DM from Crocs and it got a lot of traction. The fact it's faked is only a marginal point of discussion though
18:11 <Ali> All social media is bad for many reasons
18:11 <Starlight_Glimmer> Even people who really should know better shared it without even considering it could be a fake
18:11 <ADragonDreaming> Baby, you know I compare you to a kiss from a rose on the grey
18:11 <Crystal_Shards> technically IRC is social media
18:12 <ADragonDreaming> given the broad definition, yes.
18:12 <ADragonDreaming> "websites and applications that enable users to create and share content or to participate in social networking."
18:13 <ADragonDreaming> the problems with social media are often a reflection of and amplification of the problems with people in general.
18:13 <Starlight_Glimmer> Crystal_Shards: How is IRC social media?
18:13 <Starlight_Glimmer> It doesn't even have a permanent record
18:13 <ADragonDreaming> It's an application that enables users to create and share content or to participate in social networking.
18:13 <Starlight_Glimmer> It's as much social media as having a chat on the streets
18:14 <Starlight_Glimmer> It's certainly social, but apart from being driven by technology I don't see the media part
18:14 <Crystal_Shards> it's an application for sharing discourse....like all other social media
18:14 <ADragonDreaming> books are a form of media.
18:15 <Starlight_Glimmer> Sure
18:15 <Starlight_Glimmer> It's published
18:15 <ADragonDreaming> IRC is also a form of media.
18:15 <Starlight_Glimmer> That's why I say I don't agree IRC is media
18:15 <ADragonDreaming> is broadcast TV media?
18:16 <ADragonDreaming> prior to home video recorders, those were one and done events.
18:16 <Starlight_Glimmer> Yes. It's published and made to last. Decisions are made by editorial staff
18:17 <ADragonDreaming> this is published - by me typing.
18:17 <ADragonDreaming> as far as made to last, although that's not a requirement...
18:17 <ADragonDreaming> !log
18:17 <Unixkitty> https://unixkitty.com/logs/EquestriaDaily/latest.log.html
18:17 <ADragonDreaming> Behold.
18:17 <ADragonDreaming> and most clients have local logging, either.
18:17 <Starlight_Glimmer> Even if you have no way to record it (yay DRM) it's basically always archived, rebroadcasted all the time and made for a wife audience
18:18 <Starlight_Glimmer> That's not inherit to IRC though
18:18 <ADragonDreaming> How about local pirate radio broadcasts? One-time interviews that aren't recorded, just broadcast live? Are those media?
18:19 <Starlight_Glimmer> There is still editorial decisions likely some sort of program
18:19 <Starlight_Glimmer> If IRC is social media so is a conference call
18:19 <ADragonDreaming> where are the editorial decisions in twitter?
18:20 <Starlight_Glimmer> That's the difference between social media and traditional media. Also there are certainly a lot of people behind a couple of Twitter accounts
18:21 <ADragonDreaming> but what about your account?
18:21 <Starlight_Glimmer> IRC in its more traditional form is stateless
18:21 <Starlight_Glimmer> There are no accounts
18:21 <Crystal_Shards> >.> there are accounts on irc
18:21 <ADragonDreaming> that's not what I asked
18:22 <ADragonDreaming> it's also irrelevant - accounts are not necessary for something to be media, or social media
18:22 <Starlight_Glimmer> Crystal_Shards: Accounts are provided by third party network services
18:23 <Crystal_Shards> Regardless, ADragonDreaming has a point about accounts
18:23 <Crystal_Shards> They're irrelevant for defining media
18:24 <Starlight_Glimmer> Crystal_Shards: This network is running in InspIRCd, accounts are setup using Atheme - a different piece if software
18:24 <ADragonDreaming> The editorial decisions in a twitter post, whether by a large team or by a single person, are made in determining what to post.
18:24 <ADragonDreaming> Those same editorial decisions going into writing on IRC.
18:24 <ADragonDreaming> The large-scale editorial decisions are what's called "moderation" - and we do that here, too.
18:24 <Starlight_Glimmer> In a private conversation, maybe
18:24 <ADragonDreaming> IRC simply distributes it.
18:25 <ADragonDreaming> Each channel self-moderates.
18:25 <Starlight_Glimmer> Yeah but not to the same extent a radio station does
18:25 <ADragonDreaming> It's a medium of communication - the root meaning from which the Media came to be as a term, and from which "media" in "social media" takes it meaning
18:25 <Starlight_Glimmer> A radio station closely controls what is being said
18:26 <ADragonDreaming> social media is simply a medium of social communication on a wider, long-distance scale.
18:26 <Starlight_Glimmer> Again if that's true so is a phone conversation or a conference call at the very least
18:26 <ADragonDreaming> Probably.
18:26 <Starlight_Glimmer> That definition wouldn't be false, just not very useful
18:26 <ADragonDreaming> conference call, certainly.
18:26 <ADragonDreaming> the unstated but usually understood difference is "on the internet"
18:27 <ADragonDreaming> and also, open to the public.
18:27 <Starlight_Glimmer> IRC certainly transports some sort of information, so in that sense it's media
18:27 <ADragonDreaming> IRC is both.
18:27 <Starlight_Glimmer> And you connect with like-minded people, so it's social
18:27 <ADragonDreaming> Yep.
18:27 <Starlight_Glimmer> But putting it in the same bin as Facebook isn't a useful classification
18:28 <ADragonDreaming> that's why you get more specific about the types of social media you're talking about.
18:28 <Crystal_Shards> more like social media isn't a useful classification
18:28 <Starlight_Glimmer> We can argue about thaz
18:28 <Starlight_Glimmer> t*
18:29 <Starlight_Glimmer> To me anyway to count as social media you must have some sort of mechanism that promotes information based on some sort of social interaction
18:29 <Starlight_Glimmer> That's just not the case with IRC
18:29 <ADragonDreaming> I don't consider that a requirement.
18:29 <Crystal_Shards> so you've redefined social media to fit your definition
18:30 <Starlight_Glimmer> No. I define it in a way that isn't entirely useless, that's all
18:30 <Crystal_Shards> So you're arguing with your own private definition
18:30 <ADragonDreaming> your criteria is not the widely agreed upon one, though
18:30 <Starlight_Glimmer> Imagine you'd want to regulate Facebook
18:31 <Starlight_Glimmer> You don't write a law singling out Facebook
18:31 <ADragonDreaming> I don't want to regulate facebook, that leads to all sorts of thorny first amendment issues.
18:32 <ADragonDreaming> I'd rather push moderation responsibility away from a centralized system and give people tools to determine what they do and don't want to see
18:32 *** Quits: RyuImperator (RyuImperato@Pony-trb5lu.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
18:32 <Nedemai> ADragonDreaming, that would be amazing
18:32 <Nedemai> but advertisers think otherwise
18:32 <ADragonDreaming> also, allow for reverse-engineering for interoperability purposes, institute frameworks to allow people to take their data and move somewhere else but still communicate with their previous friends network...
18:32 <Crystal_Shards> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
18:33 <Crystal_Shards> we kinda had that with the xmpp protocol
18:33 <ADragonDreaming> and regulate telecom.
18:33 <Starlight_Glimmer> ADragonDreaming: So put everyone in their own filter bubble?
18:33 <Crystal_Shards> which already happens with everything
18:34 <Crystal_Shards> google search, facebook, instagram, even irc are all their own personal bubbles
18:34 <Starlight_Glimmer> You have to sometimes be confronted with stuff you don't likr
18:34 <Crystal_Shards> nope
18:34 <Crystal_Shards> and social media currently does not promote that
18:34 <Starlight_Glimmer> Otherwise society can't move forward
18:34 <ADragonDreaming> Except, well, people already ignore what they don't want
18:35 *** Joins: Stormspark (stormspark@Pony-25m.dcd.98.172.IP)
18:35 <Starlight_Glimmer> The best (technical) solutions I've come up with in my job all were a result of intense discussion
18:35 *** Quits: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-8q0glj.dynamic.sonic.net) (Connection closed)
18:35 <Crystal_Shards> that's nice
18:35 <Starlight_Glimmer> People just forgot how to listen and change their point if view.
18:35 <ADragonDreaming> okay.
18:36 <ADragonDreaming> How does the current centralized system of moderation, with a focus of government regulation, address thsi problem?
18:36 <Starlight_Glimmer> Where does government regulation come in for you?
18:36 <ADragonDreaming> "say you wanted to regulate facebook"
18:36 <ADragonDreaming> if necessary, ingore the "government regulation" aspect
18:37 <Starlight_Glimmer> For all intents and purposes social media right now is largely unregulated
18:37 <ADragonDreaming> correct.
18:37 <ADragonDreaming> But how does the current centralized system of moderation address the problem of people forgetting how to listen and change their point of view?
18:37 <Starlight_Glimmer> Ahh. Misunderstanding: That was supposed to be an example of where you need a social media definition that applies to Facebook, but doesn't to IRC
18:38 <Starlight_Glimmer> That depends on how moderation is achieved.
18:38 <ADragonDreaming> Correct. Now, consider the scale of the stuff that needs moderation.
18:39 <ADragonDreaming> how many millions of posts does facebook receive?
18:39 <ADragonDreaming> in, say, a day.
18:39 <Starlight_Glimmer> If the network providers do the moderation themselves often they'll primarily act in their own interests which often does not reflect the community needs
18:39 <ADragonDreaming> I agree.
18:39 <Crystal_Shards> so the community should start their own then
18:40 <Starlight_Glimmer> Regulations from a government body might enforce removal of misinformation though which can help healthy discussion
18:40 <Starlight_Glimmer> I'm aware this is a Pandora's box
18:41 <ADragonDreaming> define misinformation
18:41 <ADragonDreaming> in a way that is useful for moderation
18:42 <ADragonDreaming> Then, apply this to the 2.75 billion users who are making on average 4 comments per day each in a way that doesn't also suppress valid content
18:42 <Crystal_Shards> or violates free speech
18:42 <Starlight_Glimmer> Self-regulation is a great idea, but does lead to radicalization
18:42 <ADragonDreaming> We've got radicalization now.
18:42 <ADragonDreaming> moderation at these large scales is impossible to do well.
18:43 <ADragonDreaming> you can't catch everything, and if you try, you will catch stuff that wasn't supposed to be caught
18:43 <Starlight_Glimmer> As far as misinformation is concerned I'd start with outright lies and fakes
18:43 <ADragonDreaming> how do you determine it's a lie?
18:43 <ADragonDreaming> or a fake?
18:43 <Starlight_Glimmer> Like the Twitter post I've mentioned earlier
18:43 <ADragonDreaming> What happened to that original post/
18:43 <Starlight_Glimmer> Well there is no hard barrier. It's a case by case decision
18:44 <ADragonDreaming> Yes. Now make a case-by-case decision on 4 billlion posts per day.
18:44 <Starlight_Glimmer> Haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure it's still around
18:44 <Starlight_Glimmer> Well at first you don't have to
18:44 <Starlight_Glimmer> Not every post contains disputed information
18:44 <Starlight_Glimmer> And yeah you can't automate that
18:44 <Crystal_Shards> but you don't know which ones
18:44 <ADragonDreaming> but what if it's a lie that isn't being disputed?
18:45 <Starlight_Glimmer> Who cares then?
18:45 <Crystal_Shards> because it's lies and misinformation
18:45 <ADragonDreaming> you can't automate that: but there is literally no way to deal with the scale of the job without automating it.
18:45 <ADragonDreaming> and the cost of human moderation is beyond just the money payout.
18:46 <Starlight_Glimmer> You asses risk based on algorithms, but make the decision individually
18:46 <ADragonDreaming> Moderators for facebook and other large social media organizations wade through a lot of disturbing stuff
18:46 <Starlight_Glimmer> Factors might include number of reports, who reported, history of the user etc.
18:46 <ADragonDreaming> they have to review all the radicalizing nonsense... and often get radicalized themselves
18:46 <Starlight_Glimmer> We do the same for cheating players in multiplayer games already
18:47 <ADragonDreaming> glimmer: correct! how long does all that take?
18:47 <ADragonDreaming> an hour? three hours? two days?
18:47 <Starlight_Glimmer> For what?
18:47 <ADragonDreaming> the review process
18:47 <Starlight_Glimmer> It depends if course
18:47 <ADragonDreaming> can it be done in 10 minutes/
18:48 <Starlight_Glimmer> But yes a case might take you an hour others fractions of a second
18:48 <ADragonDreaming> because remember if there are 4 billion posts per day and 1% of those get reported, that's 40 million posts to review.
18:49 <Starlight_Glimmer> Well the number is likely way less than that
18:49 <ADragonDreaming> not really.
18:49 <Starlight_Glimmer> But even then: You don't need to catch all of thrm
18:49 <ADragonDreaming> Society sure seems to think otherwise.
18:49 <Starlight_Glimmer> A lie that nobody listens to isn't all that important
18:50 <Crystal_Shards> who says nobody is listening to it
18:50 <Starlight_Glimmer> I'm personally against deletion too
18:50 <Crystal_Shards> >personally against deletion
18:50 <Crystal_Shards> >all for removing lies and misinformation
18:50 <ADragonDreaming> the point here is that the centralized system is doomed to not work well.
18:50 <Starlight_Glimmer> A correction is a better solution
18:50 <ADragonDreaming> there's too much to review.
18:51 <ADragonDreaming> you can't do it fast or you make mistakes, but there's so much of it that you can't not do it fast or it never gets done.
18:51 <Nedemai> you know I read that facebook employees develop mental health issues sorting through some of the content they do
18:51 <ADragonDreaming> you have to automate. you have to set hard rules that people follow...
18:51 <Starlight_Glimmer> On a centralized platform: It will certainly never catch everything
18:51 <Nedemai> but yea, doesnt mean its from a reliable source or anything
18:51 <ADragonDreaming> and then when those catch something that shouldn't have been hammered they get lambasted for it, but that's an inevitability.
18:53 <ADragonDreaming> this is why I'd prefer to push the tools out to the users, to set up what they do and don't want to see
18:53 <Starlight_Glimmer> Well the point of removing or correcting misinformation isn't only to remove it from visibility, but to increase critical thinking
18:53 <ADragonDreaming> "filter bubbles" is something that happens already and isn't so big a problem compared to the rest of it.
18:54 <Starlight_Glimmer> Ever posted on StackExchange?
18:54 <ADragonDreaming> making people make their own choices rather than just complain at the big org at least provides some practice in decision making.
18:54 <Starlight_Glimmer> There's user moderation for you
18:54 <Starlight_Glimmer> Hint: it doesn't work
18:54 <Nedemai> makes me think of a channel like this with 100 users and no mods
18:54 <Starlight_Glimmer> Good post regularly get closed as off topic despite not being off topic
18:54 <Nedemai> but all the options to ignore whoever you want
18:55 <ADragonDreaming> I'm not advocating to let me stop someone else from posting
18:55 <ADragonDreaming> I'm advocating to let me remove them from what I see.
18:55 <Ali> Kinda like EqD's discord channel RIGHT *shot*
18:55 * Nedemai laughs
18:56 <Starlight_Glimmer> ADragonDreaming: Seen the Black Mirror episode that dived into that idea?
18:56 <ADragonDreaming> I don't watch Black Mirror.
18:56 <ADragonDreaming> Additionally, that's a what if scenario.
18:57 <Starlight_Glimmer> I personally think filter bubbles are among the greatest challenges democracy is going to face going forward. Strengthening them seems like a dangerous idea
18:57 <ADragonDreaming> I'll take real world studies and experiments with the idea over Black Mirror.
18:57 <Starlight_Glimmer> Radical content doesn't disappear because you don't watch it
18:58 <Ali> No the biggest thing ahead are those *yay* scam calls
18:58 <Ali> Get like 20 a DAY
18:58 <Ali> And I'm on the DO NOT CALL list
18:58 <Starlight_Glimmer> If there's no opposition these ideas will go unchallenged
18:58 <ADragonDreaming> This is true, but I can choose whether to be aware of that radical content by listening to the source of it, or by listening to the people who are calling it out.
18:58 <Ali> That effectively is doing nada
18:58 <ADragonDreaming> I don't watch Fox News.
18:58 <ADragonDreaming> But I know what Fox news says.
18:58 <Ali> That all pony fans are pedos
18:58 <Starlight_Glimmer> Ali: Scam calls are like not a problem over here ;)
18:58 <ADragonDreaming> Among other nonsense.
18:58 * Ali still will not forgive them for that false story.
18:59 <Ali> Shush you EU pony
18:59 * Ali boops Starlight_Glimmer on her nosie
18:59 <ADragonDreaming> I don't think the filter bubbles will be any worse than they already are, personally.
18:59 <ADragonDreaming> The current system also has too high a rate of suppressing content that calls out the problematic content
19:00 <ADragonDreaming> reporting of war crimes and human rights violations tend to get caught up in filters designed to suppress promiting of the exact type of thing that they are calling out as being bad.
19:00 <Starlight_Glimmer> I think I've listened to more like 2 on a phone. You do of course have like lottery calls, but if you're not listed in a phonebook you don't get these either.
19:00 <ADragonDreaming> *promoting
19:00 <ADragonDreaming> I also don't want to entrench Facebook et al. as the arbiters of truth.
19:00 <Starlight_Glimmer> Anyhoof: I have to go to dinner. See you later.
19:00 <Ali> And I have oceanfront property in Iwoa I'd love to sell you.
19:00 <ADragonDreaming> Peace.
19:01 <Ali> Yes Iwoa, I came up with that place myself
19:01 * Starlight_Glimmer constructs a pony pile out of ADragonDreaming, Ali and Crystal_Shards
19:01 * Ali squeaks
19:01 * ADragonDreaming is a dragon.
19:03 <Nedemai> hahah oceanfront in iowa?
19:03 <Nedemai> well with how the world is going, yea it could happen
19:05 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Silver Quill: Let's Look Back: IDW Comics 2019 [ http://tinyurl.com/qv79abg ]
19:41 <Starlight_Glimmer> ADragonDreaming: It's O.K., ponies are very inclusive. ;)
19:42 * Nedemai flops
19:46 * PrincessRainbows ponies a bit and brushies the Ali horse
19:47 * Ali leans into brushies
19:48 <PrincessRainbows> Ali is a good horse
19:58 <WurstPoni> Ali: I am on the do not call list as well, was getting spam calls as well. What I did was have a recording that says "Calls to this number are recorded" and then record the calls. What I found is very quickly the spam callers hang up and dont call again as they dont want to be recorded. If they do not hang up then just send a copy of the call to the FTC :P
19:58 <WurstPoni> Very shortly after doing this I stopped getting spam calls
19:58 <Ali> Huh
20:09 <Hajnal> An interesting idea.
20:10 *** Quits: Golden (uid250033@Pony-360sli.charlton.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
20:20 <Nedemai> seems like people like my watercolors a lot... I need to get them all uploaded
20:20 <Nedemai> ... can't deny I'm craving the attention
20:23 * Starlight_Glimmer sits on Nedemai: "But have you tried greyscale?"
20:23 <Nedemai> sure have
20:23 <Nedemai> Ill scan the goauche painting when I get home ;)
20:24 <Nedemai> actually, probably should greyscale for awhile to get my values, contrasts and lighting more sorted
20:24 <Nedemai> im really somewhat directionless and just trying to get motivated
20:26 <Nedemai> Starlight_Glimmer, im torn between wanting to make my own wooden mechanical clock, and improving my art skills
20:27 <Nedemai> I can do both
20:27 <Nedemai> but it will be slower improving both
20:27 <Starlight_Glimmer> I have the perfect solution: You make me a wooden mechanical clock :3
20:28 <Nedemai> ha
20:28 <Nedemai> I need a working model first
20:29 <Starlight_Glimmer> I'd assume improving ones art skill is a thing that happens over time anyway and forcing that outside of practicing is hard
20:29 <Nedemai> I need to focus my practice
20:30 <Nedemai> one thing I keep trying to do is draw humans, or at least anthros
20:30 <Starlight_Glimmer> Then again: I'm not really an artistic person so don't trust my judgement on that matter
20:30 <Nedemai> ive been resistant to drawing humans for a long time
20:31 <Starlight_Glimmer> Yeah they are gross
20:31 * Starlight_Glimmer snickers
20:32 <Nedemai> basically?
20:32 <Nedemai> lol
20:32 <Starlight_Glimmer> I'd probably start with a model and draw that
20:32 <Nedemai> actually, Im using that as inpsiration. the funny stuff anyhow
20:32 <Nedemai> like chocolate milk guy
20:33 <Nedemai> https://www.deviantart.com/nedemai/art/Chocolate-Milk-Guy-825270857
20:33 <Starlight_Glimmer> A figurine or something like that. Doesn't have to be a live model ;)
20:33 <Starlight_Glimmer> From where did you take that?
20:34 <Nedemai> I drew it
20:34 <Nedemai> from real life
20:34 <Nedemai> I looked up some basic references, but barely used them beyond ideas
20:34 <Starlight_Glimmer> Yeah but what inspiration
20:34 <Nedemai> I literally saw a guy walk by me doing this
20:35 <Nedemai> and I laughed about it for a few mins
20:39 <Nedemai> I also got a picture of a squirrel dragging around a slice of pizza
20:40 <Nedemai> that was also hilarious
20:40 <Nedemai> I need to art it up
20:43 <Starlight_Glimmer> Want to upload the original?
20:44 <Nedemai> yea... hrm...
20:44 <Nedemai> where to put it
20:44 <Starlight_Glimmer> Imgur if in doubt
20:45 <Nedemai> completely forgot about that
20:45 <Starlight_Glimmer> I have my thingies, but that's not public
20:45 <Nedemai> imgur will work
20:45 <Nedemai> still a bit of a divide between phone and computer though
20:46 <Nedemai> none of my stuff is integrated or streamlined
20:46 <Starlight_Glimmer> Sea gulls are stealing food here at breakfast. I'm on vacation in Madeira (Portugal) right now
20:46 <Nedemai> I live with a 90s tech mentality that way >.>
20:46 <Starlight_Glimmer> My employer is all "mobile first" and I keep ignoring that
20:47 <Starlight_Glimmer> Phones are useful, but not to get stuff actually done
20:51 <Nedemai> https://imgur.com/gallery/IYO3KNN
20:52 <Starlight_Glimmer> D'aww
20:52 <Starlight_Glimmer> I know they like a pest in the U.S.
20:52 <Starlight_Glimmer> But still
20:53 <Nedemai> They can cause damage sure
20:54 <Nedemai> but to call something a pest? we develop huge tracts of land and expect the wildlife to just relocate
20:54 <Nedemai> so yea, I think we do it to ourselves
20:57 <Nedemai> mind you, I do have a picture of three squirrels huddle in my garbage can from a few weeks ago
20:58 <Nedemai> that was kinda the landlords fault though
20:59 <Nedemai> he left a huge brush pile that they had made a winter home in... then middle of december, when it was really cold and snowy out, he cleared it out
21:03 <Nedemai> im loading it
21:03 <Nedemai> uploading*
21:04 <Nedemai> https://imgur.com/a/ZCHFFV9
21:05 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: Pony New Year Music: DolceTikky - Breaking Dawn [House/Soundtrack] [ http://tinyurl.com/tepkgoe ]
21:17 *** Joins: Pony|23261 (Pony23261@Pony-i454b4.cable.virginm.net)
21:17 <Nedemai> Well, Im going out for a walk
21:17 <Nedemai> bbl
21:45 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
21:48 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
21:54 *** Quits: Nedemai (I@Pony-4p591n.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: Leaving)
22:05 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff (Pony Art Gallery) #3208 [ http://tinyurl.com/utzda55 ]
22:08 *** Joins: Bubbles (EvaSh@Pony-1t0s0g.cable.virginm.net)
22:26 *** Joins: Nedemai (Nedemai@Pony-f3d.g65.158.104.IP)
23:02 <Finwe> Good evening, everypony.
23:03 <Finwe> Messrs Starlight_Glimmer, Nedemai, Schism, Cepheid and Starlight_Glimmer; Mlles Ali, Surreal_Nightmares and PrincessRainbows.
23:03 * Finwe doffs his hat.
23:03 <Finwe> Hmm, double Starlight_Glimmer. 6.9
23:04 <Nedemai> lol
23:04 * Ali squeaks
23:04 * Finwe hats on Ali.
23:05 <Nedemai> hats?
23:05 <Nedemai> lol
23:05 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Comic: Celestia / Filly New Year / Benefits / Random 13-16 / Ponies Must Be Crazy 11 / Pharaoh 2 [ http://tinyurl.com/w9om6hw ]
23:07 *** Joins: Jackie (Jackie@Pony-drh.lm3.9.61.IP)
23:09 <Finwe> Miss Jackie.
23:09 * Finwe doffs his aht.
23:09 * Jackie nuzzles Finwe
23:10 <Finwe> Aht þat is hat.
23:10 <Nedemai> just uploaded... 4 watercolor pieces... and I've got like... maybe 10 more to go
23:11 <Nedemai> but Ill hold off, no point it doing it all at once
23:14 * Cepheid flops.
23:15 <Nedemai> there are two that are absolutely gorgeous, one I put 14 hours into to have it get destroyed
23:15 <Nedemai> but I got a 1200 dpi scan before that thankfully
23:15 <Hajnal> Hello.
23:16 *** Quits: Pony|23261 (Pony23261@Pony-i454b4.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
23:16 *** Joins: Pony|23261 (Pony23261@Pony-i454b4.cable.virginm.net)
23:16 *** Quits: Pony|23261 (Pony23261@Pony-i454b4.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
23:27 <Nedemai> this makes me sad, but I uploaded it anyhow
23:27 <Nedemai> https://www.deviantart.com/nedemai/art/Spring-Time-825492700
23:29 <Jackie> Why sad?
23:29 <Hajnal> It looks nice, though.
23:30 <Nedemai> Jackie, the original was destroyed
23:34 <Nedemai> Ill upload more tomorrow
23:35 <Nedemai> I wanna do it... somewhat slowly to let people digest and get interested
23:35 <Nedemai> I want followers again
23:35 <Finwe> "Archimandrite Ormis says that quitters never win."
23:36 <Jackie> At least you're talking again
23:37 <Nedemai> Jackie, I wish I could say it was all out of the kindness of my heart... but to be fair... I lost everything else I had
23:37 <Nedemai> socially anyhow
23:37 <Nedemai> realized I was happier doing art during the pony days
23:37 <Nedemai> so... I came back to where I remembered... but you know
23:38 <Jackie> Well you're becoming used to this place.
23:38 <Nedemai> Yea but
23:38 <Nedemai> this sentiment
23:38 <Nedemai> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj-WLI_dyCA
23:39 *** Joins: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net)
23:39 <PinkieShy> hihi :D
23:39 <Nedemai> hi
23:39 <Jackie> I think talking to people is the thing. Better than living in a dead channel.
23:40 <Nedemai> Jackie, when you walk away from something and come back to it 4 years later, you can't expect it to be the same
23:40 <Nedemai> even though its stayed right where you remember leaving it.
23:41 <Jackie> I know, but you had to start somewhere
23:42 <Nedemai> I came close to having a family
23:42 <Nedemai> thats... tearing at me
23:42 <Nedemai> im sorry... I think Ill go make some tea
23:43 <Finwe> Hmm, tea.
23:43 * Jackie pats Nedemai's back
23:43 <Finwe> o3o
23:47 <Nedemai> I cant even find my mint tea... baaah
23:48 * Schism has some orange pekoe.
23:48 <Nedemai> I found it
23:51 * Jackie pets Nedemai
23:59 * PinkieShy hands Finwe a cute hat
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