00:00 <Schism> Also, I don't have anywhere NEAR enough fire res, yet.
00:00 <Schism> Hmm. Pukei-Pukei gives the 'Survival Expert' skill. Does that also apply to vigorwasps?
00:01 <Cepheid> Bazel requires more than just fire resist. And what does survival expert do again?
00:02 <Schism> Interactables give more HP.
00:03 <Cepheid> Honestly I don't know. I'd say go test it. Go stand in the rotten vale's acid, pull out the wasp and compare?
00:04 <Schism> Eh. I'm not that desperate to know.
00:05 <Schism> I am, admittedly, curious to know if Capcom could have pulled a worse inventory system out of their tailpipes.
00:06 <Schism> Great, says I. When confronted with the possibility of dozens upon dozens of charms, let's provide the player with several pages of poorly-labeled, visually identical items.
00:07 <Cepheid> Given it isn't the worst system, they could.
00:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: KDA - POPSTARS - Pony Edition! [ http://tinyurl.com/wecfmfx ]
00:07 <Schism> I can -think- of worse. We've both seen worse. But this is still...
00:08 <Cepheid> Given the large number of weapons, armour and generic items, it is the best they can do.
00:08 * Schism gives Cepheid a look.
00:09 <Cepheid> That said I do wish they would allow sorting "Craft Charms" by skill. Or even alphabetically.
00:09 <Schism> Craft, they don't have. Inventory, at least, they do...
00:10 <Cepheid> I won't lie though, Capcom messed up really badly with the inventory in one way I cannot grasp.
00:10 <Schism> Swapping item locations in the inventory?
00:10 <Cepheid> Used to be the grid view was much, much larger.
00:11 <Schism> Oh. Yeah. What's with the 25 items per?
00:11 <Cepheid> 25? Try 64.
00:11 <Schism> Oh, sorry, I'm still stuck on the armour screen.
00:12 <Cepheid> Or was it 100? Point is, the size was drastically reduced for no discernable reason.
00:12 *** Joins: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net)
00:12 <Schism> ... wait. Why does the Item Pouch in town show 'Materials'? That immediately goes straight to the box.
00:12 <PinkieShy> hihi
00:13 <Schism> Are we limited to 24 types of materials per hunt?
00:14 <Cepheid> No idea.
00:14 <Cepheid> Never really ran into carving materials limits.
00:14 <Schism> I guess it just never comes up. Also, hiyas.
00:14 <Cepheid> Now items? That's I have run into a limit with.
00:15 <Schism> As have we all.
00:16 <Schism> Lessee. Clutch claw tutorial.
00:16 <Cepheid> As for showing the materials box in town... No reason to not show it. Why add code for something that isn't needed?
00:16 <Schism> The materials box isn't shown anywhere -else-, tho. In the field, it's invisible.
00:17 <Cepheid> Nah.
00:17 <Cepheid> It's shown in the field too.
00:18 <Schism> Huh.
00:19 <Finwe> o3o
00:19 <Finwe> Good evening, my perissodactyls of minute stature.
00:19 * Cepheid involuntari
00:19 <Cepheid> Ermm..
00:19 <Finwe> Mlles Ali, DashedRainbows and Sleeping_Nightmares; Messrs Cepheid and Schism.
00:19 * Finwe doffs his hat.
00:20 * Cepheid involuntarily makes a purring-like noise as he breathes.
00:20 <Finwe> Have you got a cat in your nasal cavity?
00:21 * DashedRainbows wags her tail in the air and pounces on Finwe
00:21 <DashedRainbows> Fancy horse!
00:21 * Finwe pets a DashedRainbows.
00:24 <Cepheid> More my lungs are filled with gunk.
00:26 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
00:30 <Schism> Oh. So THAT's the button I push to unload all my slinger ammo.
00:31 <Schism> Also, ugh.
00:32 <Schism> Hmm. Poison charm 2. I do have the materials. It's verra, verra tempting.
00:33 <PinkieShy> haha..
00:33 <PinkieShy> I corrupted undertale and reset everything and I just met sans
00:33 <PinkieShy> the first thing SAns tells me is "Go back to bed, dear."
00:34 <Schism> The game does like to play with the player.
00:35 <Schism> On the one hand, dragonvein crystals are really rare at the point I'm at. On the other... all my high-value targets use either fire or poison. So, a purchase it is.
00:39 <PinkieShy> Welp glad the new car has bluetooth built in..
00:40 <PinkieShy> Supposedly I've heard everybody talking about how South Carolina now put it into place if you get caught talking on the phone without bluetooth and such.. You'll get a ticket with a very bad fine
00:40 *** Quits: coppertiger (coppertiger@Pony-u7oomq.md.comcast.net) (Connection closed)
00:40 <PinkieShy> Good that they made it that way so people will be focusing on the road more.. a few years ago they made it a law to make it possible to get a ticket if you are texting while driving.
00:41 <Schism> 'Distracted Driving' has long been a thing, and they're making sure that they cover all the instances. Including using Bluetooth and pairing your car to your phone.
00:42 <Schism> If you get in an accident because of it, then you're liable.
00:43 * DashedRainbows chews on Finwe's hat
00:44 <DashedRainbows> and imo those people should be charged for intent to murder
00:44 <PinkieShy> My family usual refuses to accept phone calls while driving
00:44 <DashedRainbows> all the sane members in mine too. so everyone but my dad
00:44 <Schism> DashedRainbows, gross criminal negligence.
00:44 <PinkieShy> Called a drivers school today to get pricing on a class to take to get my license..
00:45 <PinkieShy> I was nervous and still am scared..
00:45 <PinkieShy> They told me though its $50/hr which isn't that bad.
00:45 <PinkieShy> Hopefully by end of 2020.. I'll finally have my Drivers License adn the Driver's Permit will be no more :P
00:46 <PinkieShy> Drivers permit/beginners license/learners license.. Whatever you want to call it :P
00:57 <ADragonDreaming> nice
01:00 <ADragonDreaming> I will Monhan for a bit
01:10 * ADragonDreaming heads off to cap a Lavasioth
01:13 <Schism> Bleeeehhh. Need Aquacore Ores.
01:16 *** Quits: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net) (Connection closed)
01:18 <Schism> Oh. Of course. There are no gathering points in area 15 of the Coral Highlands unless there's a boss there.
01:27 <ADragonDreaming> hm.
01:27 <ADragonDreaming> not sure if they patched it or if something changed on my end, but I'm not getting any stuttering or anything.
01:27 <Schism> Likely the patch. It is nice, tho!
01:28 <Schism> Hmmm. Lotta points for just random material expedition.
01:28 <Schism> Oh, the Argosy dropped in.
01:29 <ADragonDreaming> ...can we go back to Astera though, that would be nice.
01:29 <ADragonDreaming> huh. somehow I must have hit r.
01:29 <Schism> Still in Astera... >>;
01:29 <ADragonDreaming> no, I was finishing a quest
01:29 <ADragonDreaming> it was still on the end-slate for the quest and not moving
01:30 <ADragonDreaming> but I must have hit wrong key
01:31 * Schism gets another 38k from trade-in items.
01:33 <Schism> Uergh, might need to sleep soon.
01:34 <Schism> Afore I do, though...
01:34 <Schism> Some chicken balls tossed in a lime ginger chili sauce.
01:36 <Schism> Adra, are Aquacore Ores really as rare as all that? It seems like they should be a lot more frequent.
01:37 <Schism> (They're kinda sorta important for a few charms. Some charms. A couple charms.)
01:49 *** Quits: Taoki (MirceaKitsu@Pony-7ul.gjo.113.93.IP) (Quit: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mircea/)
01:52 *** Joins: Taoki (MirceaKitsu@Pony-7ul.gjo.113.93.IP)
02:17 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Discussion #2054 [ http://tinyurl.com/yxxj23wl ]
02:19 <ADragonDreaming> hmm... I don't remember them being super rare
02:21 <Schism> Maybe not, but I've only gotten enough for a couple charms. Oh well, I can pull down a few more now that I know where to find them.
02:21 <ADragonDreaming> there's a few quests that give it out, too
02:21 <ADragonDreaming> but, yeah, just mine in coral highlands
02:21 <Schism> Aye. High-rank will make it easier.
02:22 <Schism> For now, I'm not playing, I'm just making my dinner.
02:32 *** Joins: coppertiger (coppertiger@Pony-u7oomq.md.comcast.net)
03:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Comic Dub Compilation #57 [ http://tinyurl.com/ubrlddr ]
03:15 *** Joins: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net)
03:46 <Schism> Adra: Next time I get a Zorah ping, I'll save it for you.
04:02 * DashedRainbows licks PinkieShy a bit
04:18 *** Quits: PurePurple (Bat@Squeaky.Cuddly.Batpony) (Connection closed)
04:20 *** Joins: PurePurple (Bat@Squeaky.Cuddly.Batpony)
04:24 * PinkieShy taste like poptarts
04:30 *** Sleeping_Nightmares is now known as Surreal_Nightmares
04:41 * DashedRainbows licks him like a lolipop
04:58 * DashedRainbows also neighs and flops on Ali. This horse is very tired
04:58 * Ali tucks DashedRainbows to bed then
05:00 * DashedRainbows grabs her favorite plushie and pacifier then curls up like a good filly
05:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Roundup #1505 [ http://tinyurl.com/qpxdaaq ]
05:47 <ADragonDreaming> Schism: I think I already have all the Zorah gear
05:47 <ADragonDreaming> But I can certainly help you roll through it
06:27 * DashedRainbows borrows another pony to use as a plushie
07:25 *** Joins: Jackie (Jarva@demon.maid.pone.offers.cookies)
07:26 <Jackie> Any genres I could start with?
07:27 *** Joins: Changeling_Nightmares (Surreal@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone)
07:27 *** Changeling_Nightmares is now known as Filly_Nightmares
07:27 * Jackie pets
07:32 * Ali boops Filly_Nightmares
07:47 *** Joins: Dranae (kacyr@I.Will.Fly.Higher)
08:05 *** Quits: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
08:06 *** Joins: Golden (uid250033@Pony-sd90bk.tooting.irccloud.com)
08:07 * Golden flops.
08:14 * Filly_Nightmares nomsm on Ali hoof
08:14 * Filly_Nightmares eeeees at Golden!
08:14 * Ali boops Filly_Nightmares snoot, that took her awhile
08:15 * Golden eeeees right back
08:16 * Filly_Nightmares giggles and nomfs Ali nosie and wigglewaggles happily!
08:20 * Ali boops Filly_Nightmares nosie wiff mango
08:28 *** Quits: Heartbreak (Heartbreak@Pony-gja4ce.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
09:54 *** Joins: Changeling_Nightmares (Surreal@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone)
09:57 *** Quits: Filly_Nightmares (Surreal@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
09:59 *** Quits: Jackie (Jarva@demon.maid.pone.offers.cookies) (Quit: Quit)
10:04 *** Joins: Cyan_Spark (Cyan_Spark@sparks.only.last.so.long)
10:24 *** Joins: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-1cd.irn.56.193.IP)
10:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ConfusionRift
10:24 <ConfusionRift> Hello everypony.
10:26 * Ali flops over ConfusionRift
10:26 * ConfusionRift patpats Ali, then flops as well.
10:30 * Ali snuggles on the ConfusionRift, is pondering bed but half of the unicorn isn't tired yet.
10:35 * ConfusionRift sighs
10:36 * Ali pat pats ConfusionRift
10:36 <ConfusionRift> Always something simple that diminishes the whole day. Have to return an item I ordered.
10:51 *** Quits: Changeling_Nightmares (Surreal@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone) (Connection closed)
11:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #1827 [ http://tinyurl.com/slhj48d ]
11:15 <Cepheid> Morning.
11:15 * Lumindia /me licks ALi
11:16 <ConfusionRift> Hallooo.
11:17 <Cepheid> How goes it?
11:19 *** Quits: Ali (Ali@Pony-cvibue.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving)
11:21 <ConfusionRift> Doing alright, a bit upset, Got the monitor, but the cable I ordered was the wrong one. (sighs)
11:22 <ConfusionRift> They were not wrong. It's not impressive, but it works as it should. Can't test if it's 144hz, especially since they sent an HDMI cable instead of the friggin' DisplayPort. -_-
11:28 <ConfusionRift> It's a bit older tech, so it's wider than a newer IPS monitor, and it's way brighter. I had to tune it down hard. It looked a bit grainy at first, but maybe it was its first run in a while, since it's no longer an issue.
11:29 <Lumindia> I licked Ali out of existance! D:
11:30 <ConfusionRift> She'll respawn soon. :P
11:30 <Lumindia> D:
11:33 <ConfusionRift> Oh, and the tilt is not great. And the mount went from hulkonian strength, to lazy sloth too easily. Still no biggie.
11:40 <Cepheid> ...
11:40 <Cepheid> Cats, what are you doing?
11:41 <Cepheid> http://i.imgur.com/yNzQrWD.gifv
11:43 <Cepheid> https://www.reddit.com/r/cats/comments/ev5zfy/my_cat_blackberry_has_done_this_before_but_my/ *Struggles to climb up a bit* *Stops* "What's up here?" *Looks* "Oh, nothing." *Finishes climbing.*
11:47 <ConfusionRift> Good thing the wooden beam is too high for them. | "Hmmm." (jumps, grabs, and climbs) | Oh gods no...
11:52 <Cepheid> Cats claws are sharp, they can dig into stuff.
11:53 <Cepheid> Laptop, what do you mean the battery is dis- ... *Notices power adapter isn't fully in* ... Oh.
11:54 <ConfusionRift> They know they can jump up there, so that's gonna be a routine thing.
11:56 *** Quits: Golden (uid250033@Pony-sd90bk.tooting.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
12:00 *** Joins: Jackie (Jarva@demon.maid.pone.offers.cookies)
12:00 <Jackie> Is there a place where you discuss programming?
12:01 <Jackie> Like nowadays
12:02 * Lumindia licks Jackie
12:02 <Lumindia> nno idewa
12:03 <Finwe> Good afternoon, my paltry pastel-coloured ungulates.
12:03 <Finwe> Lt Cdr ConfusionRift, Capt Koopz; Messrs Cepheid, Lumindia and Schism; Mlles DashedRainbows, Jackie and Surreal_Nightmares.
12:03 <Finwe> o7
12:04 <Jackie> I want to discuss about unicode in general, specifically utf-8
12:04 <ConfusionRift> RAdm. Finwe. (salutes)
12:04 <Jackie> I've been studying the encoding part of utf-8 which is interestingly complex
12:06 <Jackie> Like if the code unit's value exceeds 127, Some sophisticated method of multibyte happens
12:07 <Jackie> Like 110000010 10000000 is codepoint 128
12:07 <Cepheid> freenode tends to be the usual network for all programming stuff.
12:08 <Cepheid> And yeah, UTF-8 is a good introduction to extension bytes.
12:09 <Cepheid> Do you want me to help you understand it?
12:09 <Jackie> Cepheid, do you have an understanding of the specification itself?
12:11 <Jackie> I've been playing with binary numbers by cat'ing /dev/random and fix utf-8 errors
12:13 <Cepheid> The full specification, no, but the multi-byte part, yes.
12:14 <Jackie> Cepheid, the problem with Freenode is that there's no channel that is for programming in general; agnostic programming etc
12:14 <Cepheid> Ah, yeah, that issue.
12:15 <Jackie> Like Unicode is very programming agnostic
12:15 <Jackie> It's not a good idea to clutter up tabs of multiple channels
12:15 <Cepheid> Anyhow, multi-byte spec. It looks complicated, but it's not as bad as it sounds.
12:16 <Jackie> There used to be a stupid rule here before that talking about tech should be in #techponies
12:16 <Cepheid> Ah, don't worry about that.
12:16 <Cepheid> I constantly break that rule, no one gives a *****.
12:16 <Cepheid> Might have been more important in the past, but not so much these days.
12:16 <Jackie> #techponies is really dead at that point
12:17 * ConfusionRift clears his throat.
12:17 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Fanfiction: Untwisting the Knot [ http://tinyurl.com/ugzz5z5 ]
12:17 <Cepheid> Rifty, no one's said a dang thing about it for over a year, why start now? :P
12:17 <Jackie> I tend to talk tech stuff here sometimes because it has actual people to respond
12:17 <Cepheid> Yep.
12:17 <Cepheid> But anyhoo..
12:18 <Cepheid> UTF-8. If the codepoint is U+0000 to U+007F, it's encoded in a single byte. This much I assume you know.
12:18 <ConfusionRift> This stupid rule was instated because it's a pony chat, not a tech chat. (pokes Cepheid) ALAS! Since the chat's been dead for some time, it's not as heavily enforced anymore.
12:18 <ConfusionRift> So go for it.
12:19 <Jackie> Cepheid, that explains the ASCII compatibility
12:19 <Cepheid> Yes.
12:19 <Cepheid> I'm just ensuring you're aware of that, is all.
12:19 <Jackie> I was a bit confused about the ISO-8859-1 fallback
12:19 * ConfusionRift nods... then flops.
12:19 <Cepheid> Now then, when we exceed that range, that is, U+0080 and above, we start to use more than one byte.
12:20 <Jackie> The 110xxxxx 10xxxxxx right?
12:20 <Cepheid> Yes.
12:20 <Cepheid> The first byte indicates how many bytes follow.
12:20 <Jackie> 11 is 2 bytes
12:20 <Jackie> Including the first one
12:20 <Cepheid> 110 indicates 1 byte follows, 1110 indicates 2 bytes, 11110 indicates 3 bytes, for a maximum of four bytes.
12:20 <Jackie> Oh
12:21 <Jackie> Unicode in theory reaches 6 bytes
12:21 <Cepheid> There's no reason to right now, though. But yeah.
12:21 <Jackie> Which takes a very long time to reach that
12:21 <Jackie> I don't really think unicode will be able to reach that in a century
12:21 <Cepheid> Current specification is limited to U+10FFFF. You only need 24 bits for that.
12:22 <Cepheid> Well, 21.
12:22 <Cepheid> Hard to say.
12:22 <Cepheid> The Asian countries are... introducing problems.
12:22 <Cepheid> Some of them want distinct regions to themselves.
12:22 <Cepheid> But that's not a technical problem, so it's moot.
12:22 <Jackie> You mean dialects?
12:23 * Lumindia becomes small and crawls onto Jackie's back
12:23 * Lumindia nibbles ear
12:23 <Cepheid> No, not dialects.
12:23 <Cepheid> Entire language character sets.
12:23 <Jackie> How could dying languages play a role in Unicode?
12:23 <Jackie> If that's a problem
12:23 <Cepheid> There are some that take offense to having their language's character sets mixed in with others.
12:23 <Cepheid> Like say, Chinese and Japanese.
12:24 <Jackie> Something similar in Greek and Math
12:24 <Cepheid> Dying languages... The biggest problem there isn't the character set, it's literally the grammar, syntax and dictionary that's a concern.
12:24 <Cepheid> Again, outside the realm of Unicode. Unicode is intended for encoding text.
12:24 <Cepheid> Such that every language can be encoded in it.
12:25 <Jackie> I'd be shocked if people still use the flawed sets
12:25 <Jackie> Like the DBCS
12:25 <Jackie> DBCS is actually a mess for Kanji
12:25 <Cepheid> Japan still uses Shift-JIS, for example.
12:26 <Cepheid> I know this, because I decoded text from a DS game from back in 2009, which encoded all text, including English text, in Shift-JIS.
12:27 <Cepheid> The problem with adoption of Unicode is, again, controversies, and because adoption is troublesome in some cases.
12:27 <Cepheid> A majority of Japanese websites are currently encoded in Shift-JIS.
12:30 <Cepheid> Basically, the gist of the controversy is that Unicode doesn't want duplicate entries.
12:31 <Cepheid> Which means, for languages like Japanese and Chinese, there's something called "unification."
12:31 <Cepheid> That said, if you know anything about relations between China and Japan, this causes a problem.
12:32 <Cepheid> Chinese and Japanese share a lot of similar characters, thanks to history. Japanese kanji are essentially culturally-appropriated characters.
12:32 <Cepheid> The end-result is that, if both languages had their own regions in Unicode, there'd be several thousand duplicate entries. Thus, unification.
12:33 <Cepheid> Where the Japanese kanji characters match the Chinese characters, a mapping is created. Unfortunately, people in China and Japan do NOT like this.
12:33 <Cepheid> Despite experts saying that it is completely sane.
12:33 <Cepheid> There's also issues with Japanese directly, in that older forms of Japanese kanji are not encoded, because again, duplicates.
12:34 <Cepheid> Long story short, it's a mess.
12:35 <Cepheid> I plan to use Unicode for my game, myself.
12:36 <Cepheid> By the by, ConfusionRift. You'd know this about your native language more than I would, are there any special characters used in your dialect of Spanish that aren't part of the well-known Alphabet?
12:37 <ConfusionRift> Like the ñ?
12:37 <ConfusionRift> It used to be part of the alphabet.
12:37 <Cepheid> Yeah.
12:37 <Cepheid> Let me rephrase.
12:37 <Cepheid> English Alphabet.
12:38 <Cepheid> That is A-Z, a-z.
12:38 <Cepheid> WIthout accents.
12:39 <ConfusionRift> Again, it used to be part of the alphabet, same as the Ll, Rr. They were later removed because the prevailing English alphabet declared it more like accents. Aside from those, that's it.
12:40 <Cepheid> Ah.
12:40 <Cepheid> I can't comment on this, because English is my native language, but I do want to know. Does it ever bother you that stuff like that happens because the English language/alphabet is so prevalent?
12:41 <ConfusionRift> Oh, and there was the ü, but it's now gone.
12:41 <Jackie> There are still accents in English
12:41 <ConfusionRift> It was declared a very occasional accent, so it just got removed.
12:42 <ConfusionRift> We also got the upside down exclamation and question marks.
12:43 <ConfusionRift> Like the ¡ and ¿.
12:43 <Jackie> Many English words borrowed from French have accents
12:44 <ConfusionRift> Which worked like parenthesis within a question or exclamation, as opening symbols.
12:44 <Jackie> Cepheid, if you're Canadian like ConfusionRift, do you speak French?
12:44 <ConfusionRift> ...I'm not Canadian. :P
12:45 <Cepheid> I do not speak French. I never got a chance to learn as a child.
12:46 <Cepheid> I was born with a chronic inner-ear infection which caused profound hearing loss for the first 16 years of my life. My school's were told by doctors to pull me out of any French language classes.
12:47 <Cepheid> The most complete language I know is English
12:47 <Cepheid> Second most complete is Japanese.
12:47 <ConfusionRift> Cepheid: It really doesn't bother me. We just adapt to this changes, just how English (especially here) gets butchered due to changes in dialect. Funny enough, many of these changes, very few remember them.
12:47 <Cepheid> Yeah I did consider that. English no longer uses thou, thee and such.
12:48 <Cepheid> So arguably a language will evolve regardless of influences.
12:48 <ConfusionRift> You know those long kindergarden banners that have the alphabet?
12:49 <Cepheid> It's just that outside of Chinese and its dialects, English is one of the more prevalent languages, and thus may influence other languages, possibly for the worst.
12:49 <Jackie> I hope English doesn't get dumb
12:49 <Cepheid> Yeah?
12:49 <Jackie> Is English getting dumber while it's evolving?
12:49 <Cepheid> Arguably English has always been dumb. It is the result of a lot of butchering and adaptation from other languages.
12:50 <Jackie> I don't feel like meme words should be formal
12:50 <Jackie> Why can't English be beautiful like Spanish or French?
12:51 <Cepheid> French may be beautiful, but that doesn't make it a good language.
12:52 <Cepheid> My experiences in dealing with French has suggested that, while the language is "beautiful" and "the language of love", or so they say..
12:52 <ConfusionRift> I remember they used to have the older letters on those. The ñ, Ll, Rr, and another I don't remember were on it. There were also banners for the ö and ü rules. Those are now gone.
12:52 <Cepheid> The people who use it as their native tongue tend to be... Troublesome.
12:52 <ConfusionRift> Why the hell do I remember that?
12:53 <Cepheid> Childhood memories tend to be particularly strong because they're created when the brain is most malleable.
12:53 * ConfusionRift stares into nothing.
12:53 <Cepheid> Anyways..
12:53 <Cepheid> The problem with French here in Canada, is that there's a disparity.
12:53 <Cepheid> Despite the official languages of Canada being English and French, in much of Canada, French is not taught.
12:54 <Cepheid> And in Quebec, English is treated as a second-class language.
12:54 <Cepheid> To the point that you can be fined for not displaying French at least a certain multiple size of the English, or not at all.
12:54 <Cepheid> Or if you don't speak French, you can be refused service at stores and restaurants.
12:55 <Cepheid> Long story short, the French language might be "the language of love", the people who use it are known for not being very loving.
12:56 * ConfusionRift steps out for a second, rather thoughtful and sad. "Gonna... gonna get some water. Be back in a bit."
12:57 <Cepheid> Er, sorry about that Rifty.
12:57 <Jackie> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-synchronizing_code
12:57 <Cepheid> I didn't mean to invoke nostalgia like that.
12:57 <Jackie> This is probably hard to understand
12:58 <Cepheid> Wikipedia is not a good resource for technical info, to be honest.
12:58 <Cepheid> Many of the concepts explained on it are written either by mathematicians, or people who have PhDs, but no real job doing anything.
12:58 <Cepheid> Because they're either too wordy, or too picky.
12:58 <Jackie> Cepheid, I don't want to read the whole Unicode book
12:58 <Cepheid> You really don't need to.
12:59 <Cepheid> What are you trying to do?
12:59 <Jackie> I assume the specification is used for implementators
12:59 <Cepheid> Some of it is.
12:59 <Jackie> Because it's very technical rather than general
12:59 <Cepheid> Some of it's just technical details, and information for those who want to contribute to the whole thing.
13:00 <Jackie> Couldn't the org make a short guide on how it works
13:00 <Jackie> In general
13:00 <Cepheid> Which encoding are you trying to use? UTF-8?
13:00 <Cepheid> And are you trying to encode, or decode?
13:00 <Jackie> https://docs.python.org/3/howto/unicode.html
13:01 <Jackie> I'm trying to use Unicode for a neat thing
13:01 <Cepheid> Using it in programming languages is dependent on the language, but most have settled on a straightforward way for specifying unicode codepoints.
13:01 <Jackie> And the howto kinda requires me to know...the standard?!
13:01 <Cepheid> Usually the escape sequence \uXXXX
13:01 <Cepheid> All you need to know is how the encodings are done, and that's about it.
13:02 <Cepheid> After that, the only real thing of note you might need is in regards to translating the input/output to different encodings that are NOT unicode.
13:02 <Cepheid> And those, those cases are tricky
13:02 <Cepheid> But yeah, that's a little wordy for people who want to use unicode.
13:02 <ConfusionRift> Cepheid: Not your fault. That just came out of nowhere.
13:02 <Jackie> I probably don't use other encodings
13:02 <Cepheid> From...
13:03 <Jackie> UTF-8 is always been a primary use
13:03 <Cepheid> "Introduction to Unicode" to "Python's Unicode Support" is mostly just a quick overview of Unicode.
13:03 <Cepheid> If you read Python's Unicode Support section, you would know that UTF-8 is already in use.
13:03 <ConfusionRift> But I'm good. So all's good. Gonna run this monitor through its paces. That should help.
13:04 <Cepheid> To specify a single character in UTF-8, you just use the escape sequence \uXXXX
13:04 <Cepheid> Replace XXXX with the hexadecimal codepoint for the character you want.
13:04 <Cepheid> Of course, it's not limited to just 4 characters. Again, Unicode goes up to 10FFFF.
13:05 <Jackie> Then they necessarily say that Unicodedata is necessary
13:05 <Cepheid> Usually, anyways.
13:05 <Cepheid> Unicodedata?
13:05 <Jackie> Isn't this too much for the developer
13:05 <Cepheid> Oh, that.
13:05 <Jackie> All they want is to know simple Unicode
13:05 * Cepheid checks something.
13:06 <Cepheid> ConfusionRift: Sorry, I'm reading your comments, just helping Jackie. :P Anyways, yeah, you might want to run the monitor through this: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
13:06 <Cepheid> Make sure you're using the right icc color profile for it first, though.
13:06 <Cepheid> Otherwise you might have trouble getting everything right.
13:07 <Jackie> Couldn't they rewrite it in a simpler approach and put the ambiguous jargon somewhere
13:07 <Cepheid> You will notice a "grainy" appearance to the display, that is unfortunately, a problem common with all TN displays.
13:07 <Cepheid> It's Python, Jackie.
13:07 <Cepheid> The language isn't exactly sane.
13:07 <Cepheid> Okay.
13:07 <Cepheid> The unicodedata import is actually a set of functions for dealing with UTF-8.
13:07 <Cepheid> It isn't *REQUIRED* for using unicode, though.
13:07 <Jackie> Cepheid i mean what's "normalization"
13:07 <Cepheid> That I can't explain. Give me about 10 minutes to figure it out.
13:07 <ConfusionRift> Aaaahhhh! (goes into fetal position)
13:08 <Jackie> It's awful that the wiki doesn't have a mini glossary
13:08 <Jackie> It's kinda a bit flawish
13:09 <Cepheid> Normalization is... Hmm, quick cursory glance suggests it's a way to translate input strings into a standard, defined form, due to the way Unicode can work.
13:09 <Cepheid> For example, ConfusionRift's special 'n' character with the tilde over it, can be expressed as one, or two characters in Unicode.
13:10 <Cepheid> That is, ñ can be expressed as two characters if I wanted to. Let me see..
13:10 <Cepheid> "̃ " and n
13:11 <Cepheid> The first is a special case.
13:11 <Cepheid> Each diacritic character, or accents, as we like to call them, is it's own special character, which doesn't "advance" the cursor in any way.
13:11 <Cepheid> Thus, the next character typed will have that character above it.
13:11 <Cepheid> ̃.
13:12 <Jackie> But still, do you need to know that
13:12 <Cepheid> The problem is, can you tell the difference between ̃n and ñ?
13:12 <Jackie> If you just want to support UTF-8 in your applications
13:12 <Cepheid> Such is the nature of Unicode.
13:12 <Cepheid> It encodes every single detail.
13:12 <Cepheid> In the case of accented characters, those diacritic marks can be treated as separate characters. Why?
13:12 <Jackie> It's still a very technical thing
13:13 <Cepheid> Because someone might want to use it in a document to express something by itself.
13:13 <Cepheid> Plus, it's re-usable in many fields.
13:13 <Cepheid> And languages.
13:13 <Jackie> Tbh, I would just ignore the majority of the specification
13:13 <Cepheid> The ones that are by themselves are called combining characters. They "combine" with another character to create a new character.
13:13 <Cepheid> Problem is, it takes 2 bytes to do that.
13:13 <Cepheid> Well, 3 in the case of the above.
13:13 <Cepheid> Because the diacritic mark is a 2-byte unicode value.
13:13 <Cepheid> Now, why does this matter?
13:14 <Cepheid> Because 3 bytes != 1 byte.
13:14 <Cepheid> The combined version is three bytes, while the version ConfusionRift types out is a single byte.
13:14 <Cepheid> Or, rather, to put it in unicode terminology..
13:14 <Jackie> ...yeah
13:14 <Cepheid> The combined version is 3 bytes, UTF-8, while the single-version is 2 bytes UTF-8.
13:15 <Jackie> This is too deep tbh
13:15 <Cepheid> Okay, I'll put this in the simplest words I can.
13:15 <Cepheid> Normalization combines these multi-character combinations into a single-character combination.
13:15 <Cepheid> That is, the two-character version of ñ becomes a single character version of ñ
13:16 <Cepheid> WHy do this?
13:16 <Cepheid> Because if you want to sort strings, you want the simplest representation possible.
13:16 <Cepheid> "mañana"(combination characters) is not the same as "mañana"(single character).
13:17 <Cepheid> It may come out as greater or less than the other.
13:17 <Cepheid> Which might break some programs.
13:17 <Cepheid> So when you receive UTF-8 text, you apply normalization to it, and then compare it to the normalized string to get proper behaviour.
13:18 <Cepheid> Welcome to the wonders of language.
13:18 <Cepheid> This isn't specific to Spanish by the way.
13:18 <Cepheid> Or any language with accents for that matter.
13:18 <Cepheid> Japanese has a similar thing going for it, and I think Chinese and Korean do too.
13:18 <Cepheid> So it's actually a required trait of Unicode for it to work right.
13:19 <Cepheid> Getting back to Python, you don't need the unidodedata import to use UTF-8, but it allows you to do some extra stuff.
13:19 <Jackie> Is there a literal "All you need to know about Unicode"
13:19 <Cepheid> Not that I am aware of. It might be worth it for someone to write one out.
13:20 <Cepheid> Again, I can help you as far as telling you what you'd need if you told me what you were trying to do with it. :P
13:20 * DashedRainbows boops ConfusionRift with her plushie and makes grabby hooves at him
13:21 <Jackie> Cepheid, like, excuse my language, but wtf. The site itself is confusing as the standard
13:21 <Cepheid> Yep.
13:21 * ConfusionRift pets DashedRainbows a bit, then lifts. :P
13:21 <Cepheid> Welcome to CS.
13:22 <Cepheid> Where everything is confusing.
13:22 <Jackie> UAX... Character Database...!
13:23 * DashedRainbows flaps her wings madly
13:25 <Cepheid> Yep.
13:26 * ConfusionRift was reminded of something, and starts laughing.
13:27 <Jackie> This is literally for unicode implementators
13:27 <Jackie> Not something the developer usually knows about
13:28 <Jackie> It's like saying that you need to know the ELF file format to in order to program in C
13:30 <ConfusionRift> We got the Spanish language from Spain, and with time, we slowly butchered and introduced our own dialect. The education system tried to do what they could to correct that, so there were a bunch of lessons on how to speak and write proper Spanish. It was hilarious, because we learned the proper way, but butchered it anyways due to our own parents and other people.
13:30 <Koopz> that very much sounds like Switzerland in general
13:31 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
13:31 <Koopz> at least the german part
13:31 <Cepheid> And Canadian English, too.
13:32 <Koopz> They learn to write and speak proper german but they constantly speak Schwitzerduetsch
13:32 <Cepheid> Jackie: The spec is more for implementations, yes. Using Unicode, meanwhile, requires less knowledge.
13:32 <Cepheid> I'm starting to suspect you're like me. You want to know how things work down to the core, indirectly.
13:33 <Cepheid> All YOU need to know, overall, is how to use language support to encode to UTF-8/16/32, and decode from UTF-8/16/32, or how to write strings in the language that use unicode characters. Also, how to properly compare strings.
13:33 <ConfusionRift> Oh, another thing. Due to the Americanization, we also introduced English words, or words that derive from it.
13:33 <Cepheid> For the most part, the only other thing you might end up needing to do is converting between Unicode and non-Unicode encodings.
13:33 <Cepheid> Like Shift-JIS.
13:33 <Koopz> most of the germans think a swiss person talking to them is doing it in "schwitzerduetsch" which they think is only a dialect. You'll find out you're wrong when they actually talk it and they've done their best to communicate with you in proper german before
13:34 <Cepheid> Honestly, of all the languages I've dealt with, Japanese handles foreign words the "best" way, to me.
13:35 <Cepheid> Japanese, when foreign words are introduced(Because the concept in question originated in another country, rather than Japan), they use the original word from the originating language, but just transliterate it as best they can.
13:35 <Koopz> i met a pair of siblings while i was in New Zealand. Swell fellas
13:35 <Cepheid> That's why the Japanese language has no native word for "Computer." They don't need one. They just took the word, transliterated it into Katakana, and went with that.
13:36 <Cepheid> Well, no. They have a native word for it, but it's just not used all that much, if at all.
13:36 <Koopz> コンプ多?
13:36 <Cepheid> Instead, it's "konpyuuta"
13:36 <Cepheid> Yep.
13:36 * Cepheid doesn't have his input tool running at the moment. Should really add that to the autostart.
13:36 <Koopz> not using Windows' IMS?
13:37 <Cepheid> コンピュータ
13:37 <Cepheid> Linux. I use ibus.
13:37 <Koopz> ah
13:37 <Cepheid> Also, IME doesn't work on my PC for some reason.
13:37 <Cepheid> Windows insists the input is installed, but it won't let me switch to it.
13:37 <Koopz> oh yeah IME... it's a weird thing
13:37 <Cepheid> And uninstalling it and re-installing it isn't fixing it, so... *Shrugs*
13:37 <Koopz> some apps also just disable it
13:38 <Cepheid> It's not working with any application, though.
13:38 <Koopz> wish i had a typeahead for every language :D
13:38 <Jackie> Cepheid, Unicode even supports Japanese
13:38 <Cepheid> Yep.
13:38 <Cepheid> It supports pretty much every language out there that's being used.
13:38 <Koopz> it would surprise me if it couldn't
13:39 <Cepheid> That said, it's not in wide-spread use in certain places because of controversies.
13:39 <Cepheid> Again, the Japanese and Chinese unification controversy.
13:39 <Cepheid> That's why Shift-JIS is still used over in Japan a lot.
13:39 <Jackie> I don't see the point of using Shift-JIS, knowing that it's a proprietary encoder
13:39 <Cepheid> I just stated one of the reasons.
13:39 <Cepheid> Japan and China don't like having their respective character sets "unified"
13:40 <Cepheid> Even though the point of Unicode is to avoid duplicate characters as much as possible, and that experts in both countries agree that it is a GOOD IDEA.
13:40 <Jackie> And I doubt I'd use it because the standard is proprietary
13:40 <Cepheid> Plus, Japan also has concerns about old characters that are no longer used in modern-day Japanese not being in Unicode, because again, duplicates.
13:40 <Cepheid> I've used it. It's as painful as it looks.
13:40 <Cepheid> It makes Unicode look simple.
13:41 <Koopz> you can't get around ISO-88591 here in Europe, there's still a ton of systems running on "latin1"
13:41 <Jackie> I don't think I'll ever support Japanese language
13:42 <Jackie> Because I don't have any access to the unknown of Shift-JIS
13:42 <Jackie> Let alone Unicode being good enough
13:44 <Cepheid> Jackie.
13:44 <Cepheid> Shift-JIS isn't unknown.
13:44 <Cepheid> It's an encoding of JIS X 0208.
13:44 <Jackie> I'd have to reverse engineer it
13:44 <Cepheid> And the algorithm for it is simple.
13:44 <Jackie> Is there actually a chart for it?
13:44 <Cepheid> Because it's in such wide-spread use, it's not something that needs reverse-engineering.
13:45 <Cepheid> There's charts for it, yes.
13:46 <Cepheid> https://uic.win/charset/show/shift_jis/
13:46 <Cepheid> Here's one.
13:46 <Cepheid> There's even websites that have plaintext files that can be used to map shift_jis codepoints to unicode codepoints.
13:47 <Cepheid> You probably don't even need to use the mappings yourself.
13:48 <Jackie> ISO support is kinda harder
13:48 <Cepheid> What you want for handling different encodings is the codecs import.
13:48 <Cepheid> https://docs.python.org/3.8/library/codecs.html
13:49 <Cepheid> It allows you to encode and decode data by specifying which encodings to use.
13:49 <Jackie> Tbh
13:49 <Jackie> I can't buy every encoding book
13:50 <Cepheid> To go from Shift-JIS, you'd probably do like, codecs.decode(shiftJISStringHere, encoding='shift_jis')
13:50 <Cepheid> And get back a utf-8 string.
13:50 <Cepheid> Meanwhile, going from UTF-8 to Shift-JIS, it's probably codecs.encode(utf8StringHere, encoding='shift_jis')
13:50 <Cepheid> I don't know. I don't use python.
13:51 <Cepheid> Though, give me a few minutes and I can probably tell you.
13:51 <Cepheid> I have plenty of Shift-JIS text.
13:55 <Cepheid> Yep.
13:55 <Cepheid> You import codecs, then do codecs.decode(shiftJISBytesHere, 'shift_jis') to convert from Shift-JIS.
13:55 <Cepheid> It expects a bytearray() object.
13:55 <Cepheid> It'll return a UTF-8 string of the decoded data.
13:56 <Cepheid> Meanwhile, the opposite is true. codecs.encode(UTF8StringHere, 'shift_jis')
13:56 <Jackie> Idk anymore. I'll just assume that I'll use Unicode
13:56 <Cepheid> Will encode it into Shift-JIS.
13:56 <Cepheid> Yep.
13:56 <Cepheid> Just default to Unicode.
13:56 <Jackie> *I'll just use
13:56 <Cepheid> Japanese computers can handle it just fine, anyways.
13:57 <Cepheid> They just prefer to use Shift-JIS due to personal reasons. But their systems support Unicode just fine anyways.
13:57 <Jackie> It's really unnecessary to support the flawed encodings
13:57 <Cepheid> If anything, you're encouraged to use UTF-8 or UTF-16, anyways.
13:57 <Cepheid> As most user interface APIs use it.
13:57 <Cepheid> Windows uses UTF-16, as does Java.
13:57 <Jackie> UTF-8's more common than 16
13:58 <Cepheid> UNIX-likes, it depends. I think it's all UTF-8.
13:58 <Jackie> Windows 10 should really support UTF-8
13:58 <Cepheid> Honestly though, converting between UTF-8 and UTF-16 though is straightforward.
13:58 <Cepheid> They should, but they didn't. Why, I'm not sure. I'd have to investigate, and really, I don't care enough to do so.
13:58 <Cepheid> Just know that UTF-16 is used on Windows and Java.
13:59 <ConfusionRift> Oh, so that is what happened. Freakin' idiots. Their inventory label says DisplayPort, but the box CLEARLY states HDMI. They likely scanned, grabbed, and tossed in the order.
13:59 <Cepheid> However, Microsoft *IS* going towards UTF-8.
13:59 <Cepheid> From a quick review of Wikipedia, it seems that Windows supported UCS-2 back when it was defined. That evolved into UTF-16.
14:00 <Cepheid> That's why Windows uses UTF-16. They had implemented a wide-character implementation that evolved into what we now know as UTF-16.
14:00 <Jackie> UTF-16 is okay but the endianess was called off
14:00 <Cepheid> They're working to bring it to UTF-8.
14:00 <Jackie> Can't applications support UTF-8
14:00 <Jackie> But the OS can't
14:00 <Cepheid> The problem is that the conversion is taking it's time because all of their code was designed with UTF-16 in mind.
14:01 <Cepheid> Yeah, that's possible.
14:01 <Cepheid> There's libraries for it, like iconv.
14:01 <Jackie> It makes it easier
14:01 <Jackie> I'm just glad Linux largely uses UTF8
14:01 <Jackie> And mac too i guess
14:01 <Cepheid> And .NET has the System.Text namespace for handling encodings of all types.
14:02 <Cepheid> Allowing for switching between UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32, the different endiannesses of them, and also other encodings like the various codepages for languages around the world, and Shift-JIS too.
14:02 * DashedRainbows flops on Jackie and returns to sleep
14:02 <Cepheid> And with C# and .NET taking over for their preferred application development language, it basically resolves the issues.
14:02 <Jackie> Do you really have to know the endianess of your audience
14:02 <Cepheid> Not really, most of the time.
14:03 <Jackie> Can't UTF-16 just properly detect endua
14:03 <Jackie> *endianess
14:03 <Cepheid> Actually, it can.
14:03 <Cepheid> For UTF-16 and UTF-32, there's a character called the Byte Order Mark.
14:03 <Jackie> I find the code to be boilerplate
14:04 <Jackie> If you can't automatically detect it
14:04 <Cepheid> You can use it to specify that the following data is little-endian or big-endian, or possibly, heavens forbid, middle-endian.
14:04 <Cepheid> If you want to automatically detect it, you can look for invalid characters.
14:04 <Cepheid> If you find invalid characters, it's possible the endianness is wrong.
14:04 <Cepheid> Otherwise, it's a data transmission error.
14:04 <Jackie> Yeah good luck on that
14:04 <Jackie> The algorithm is so complex
14:05 <Cepheid> You want my advice?
14:05 <Jackie> Like byte-wise, because Unicode has tons of valid characters
14:05 <Cepheid> Default to UTF-8, and allow for the option to change the encoding that's being used when importing or exporting.
14:06 <Cepheid> UTF-8 is pretty much "universal" at this point, with software manufacturers moving towards it.
14:06 <Jackie> I just complain that I don't want to support other encodings aside UTF-8
14:06 <Cepheid> And in the cases where that assumption is wrong, you just either run the input through a decoding/encoding tool, or you directly specify, during import, what type of data it is.
14:06 <Cepheid> Then don't.
14:07 <Cepheid> When it comes time to write the documentation, explicitly state that it only supports UTF-8.
14:07 <Cepheid> Don't needlessly complicate your life.
14:07 <Jackie> Because UTF-8 just does the job for me: Not learning other obscure encodings from the 80s
14:07 <Cepheid> I learned this the hard way, and I'd prefer you learn it from me before you get overwhelmed.
14:07 <Cepheid> So for the love of everything, just use UTF-8. And specify in your documentation that you only support UTF-8. If someone has a problem with that, they can resolve it on their own.
14:08 <Cepheid> There are tools that can change text from one encoding to another, and they can just use those.
14:08 <Jackie> Why would they have a problem if there is really no difference
14:08 <Cepheid> If you need to give a rationale, just state that you believe that the software world is, or should be, converging towards UTF-8.
14:08 <Cepheid> Jackie, you'd be surprised what people complain about.
14:09 <Jackie> Unicode really doesn't change the appearance of text
14:09 <Jackie> heck
14:09 <Cepheid> It doesn't, no. It just changes how it's stored, compared to other encodings.
14:09 <Jackie> Unicode is more updated than other encodings
14:09 <Cepheid> But like I said, some countries are anal about the fact that Unicode wants to do controversial things for the sake of reducing complexity and duplication.
14:10 <Cepheid> You have no control over that.
14:10 <Cepheid> That's just the way the world is. Everyone is free to choose whatever encoding they want to use.
14:10 <Cepheid> Some continue to use ISO-8859-1 because it's either the most compatible with much of the software they use, or it's just the simplest solution for much of their needs.
14:11 <Cepheid> Or it's just plain the default and people don't know.
14:11 <Jackie> Those countries are either not into modern life or stuck into old times
14:11 <Cepheid> You get used to it.
14:12 <Jackie> Cepheid, I'm preferring to the end user
14:12 <Cepheid> Though these days, again, the move is towards UTF-8 on the grounds that it's straightforward.
14:12 <Jackie> I don't think they'll even notice that UTF-8 is used
14:12 <Cepheid> The complexity of switching is either software wasn't designed with it in mind, and thus requires extensive modifications, or the developers don't want to implement it due to some programming issues, because they don't understand it.
14:12 <Cepheid> For example, the whole normalization thing.
14:13 <Cepheid> So part of it is the countries, part of it is the end-users, and part of it is the developers.
14:13 <Jackie> I'm just okay if the end users don't complain about encoding
14:14 <Cepheid> The best thing you can do right now as a developer?
14:14 <Cepheid> Just use UTF-8, and encourage it's use.
14:14 <Cepheid> The biggest issues where this will occur is primarily in languages that were not designed with UTF-8 in mind. For example, C and C++.
14:14 <Jackie> Python's strings are UTF-8 by default
14:14 <Cepheid> For C, I'm not sure what's needed. I assume an internationalization library like i18l.
14:15 <Cepheid> For C++, internationalization was standardized with C++11 and improved upon after that.
14:15 <Jackie> C is kinda old for that matter
14:16 <Jackie> Being a 70's language, Unicode wasn't a thing
14:16 <Cepheid> In C++, UTF-8 was "properly" implemented in C++14.
14:17 <Cepheid> Prior to that, multibyte character strings were supported, but you had to set the program's locale first.
14:18 <Cepheid> So for UTF-8, you had to do "std::setlocale(LC_ALL, "<InsertUTF8EncodingHere>")" first.
14:19 <Jackie> I assume you program with C/C++
14:19 <Cepheid> C, C++, C#, whatever I feel like.
14:19 <Cepheid> Kinda regretting not using C# for my game, to be honest.
14:20 <Cepheid> Even if the GC would be a pain in the rear.
14:20 <Jackie> Clang's kinda good but gcc has a lot of stuff for Linux
14:20 <Cepheid> Granted, I'm not far along as is. I could arguably still do a C# version.
14:20 <Cepheid> clang's getting better, yeah.
14:21 <Jackie> Shame clang doesn't like GNU C++ libs
14:21 <Cepheid> In fact..
14:21 <Jackie> Because that's actually an important thing
14:21 <Cepheid> Yeah, clang works differently, that's why.
14:22 <Jackie> Most C++ programs in linux rely in that
14:22 * ConfusionRift flops over. "Sleepy time."
14:22 <Cepheid> Unlike GCC, which compiles to machine code, clang relies on LLVM, which compiles to an intermediate form that's then interpreted by a runtime.
14:22 *** Quits: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-1cd.irn.56.193.IP) (Quit: Recharging the batteries. Laters! *shutdown*)
14:22 <Jackie> Makes Clang's C++ library pointless either way
14:23 <Jackie> I mean they could just use the libraries that Linux already has
14:23 <Jackie> Like glibc
14:23 <Cepheid> .. Oh, huh.
14:23 <Cepheid> Monogame works with .NET Core now.
14:27 <Cepheid> ... Eff it, I'm gonna implement this all in C#, then.
14:29 <Cepheid> I don't have a lot done anyways, so it should be quick.
14:37 <Cepheid> ...
14:37 * Cepheid gets pressure in his head, really bad. Ow.
14:37 <Jackie> Cepheid, just translate the game
14:37 <Jackie> Like find an equivalent statement
14:49 * Finwe middlingly noms on Jackie'
14:49 * Jackie pets Finwe
14:49 <Finwe> ...s tail.
14:49 <Finwe> o3o
14:55 <Cepheid> Hum.
14:55 <Cepheid> VSCode debug doesn't work with monogame for some reason.
14:58 <Cepheid> Makes me wonder if mono is interfering, perhaps.
15:00 <Cepheid> ... Ah.
15:00 <Cepheid> It expects mono.
15:03 <Cepheid> Ah, there we go.
15:03 <Cepheid> Wasn't using the latest version. The templates used an older version of MonoGame.Framework.DesktopGL.Core
15:03 * Cepheid sighs, goes to take some tylenol.
15:11 <Schism> Furrfu. That was a long sleep, but I needed that. And it's my weekend.
15:13 <Jackie> Goodnight
15:13 <Cepheid> I'm not going to bed, just taking medication for a headache.
15:17 *** Quits: Jackie (Jarva@demon.maid.pone.offers.cookies) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
15:25 <Cepheid> Tizzy, please piss off.
15:25 <Cepheid> I am busy, I don't want your attention, I don't even want you *NEAR* me because I know if I try to work in your presence you'll just ****ing bite me.
15:25 <Cepheid> I'd be more amicable to your damned presence if it wasn't for the biting.
15:27 <Schism> At least she's fuzzy.
15:29 <Cepheid> Yeah, that doesn't much redeem her.
15:30 <Schism> Hm. At this rate, the only country without a spread of coronavirus will be Madagascar.
15:30 <Schism> And mm.
15:30 <Cepheid> When she bites, she bites hard enough to pierce skin, and usually it stings for hours afterwards to boot, if it doesn't bleed much.
15:30 <Cepheid> One of the few cats I'm not infatuated with because of that.
15:30 * Schism nods. :< "I'm half tempted to suggest a muzzle."
15:30 <Cepheid> I don't know what her damned problem is with me, but I don't like her as much as any other cat.
15:31 <Cepheid> At least, I don't like her when I'm on a strong dose of vyvanse.
15:31 <Cepheid> Because she is persistent and it annoys the **** out of me.
15:31 <Cepheid> Just... leave me alone. I'm trying to work. I need an office where I can go where neither of the cats can be a bother.
15:31 * Cepheid is irritable now. =.=
15:31 <Schism> Constant distractions, at least, and need for bandages at worst.
15:31 <Cepheid> Everything is bloody out to piss me off today.
15:32 * Cepheid is seething with barely contained rage, in fact.
15:33 * Cepheid goes to take one of his Ativan.
15:33 <Schism> Good idea.
15:33 <Cepheid> Why can't I ever get a good in-between with all these drugs?
15:34 <Cepheid> I'm either not focused enough, that I spend my days wasting away time playing games all day long, or I become so focused that minor distractions irritate me.
15:37 <Cepheid> The reason I am so focused on wanting to get something done in the first place is because my confidence needs it. Secondly, I've wasted five years of my life doing ****-all after I graduated from college that I need to recover, because I couldn't be bothered to cope with my headaches and just work through them.
15:39 <Schism> I do understand. And... yeah. I need to find something to do myself. Even writing...
15:41 <Cepheid> I mean geezus christ. Every day my mother is home and awake, it's non-stop talking downstairs. Always asking me irrelevant questions, always talking to me about irrelevant crap. What part of "shut up and leave me the hell alone, because I am trying to do my ****ing job." do you not grasp?
15:41 <Cepheid> Gods, I try to do work, I try to work towards getting a job, but all I get is constant frustrations, annoyances.
15:42 <Cepheid> All because people fail to understand what it is I do, what it is I am trying to do, why I am trying to do it, and just..
15:42 <Cepheid> They talk and talk and talk.
15:42 <Cepheid> Shut. Up.
15:42 <Cepheid> This isn't the same world where I don't have to get certification to get a job, where I don't have to prove myself first to get a job.
15:42 * Schism nods. "It is... intensely frustrating, to say the least. I know headphones aren't ideal, but have you considered blaring white noise?"
15:42 <Cepheid> I need to make a portfolio. Stop bothering me.
15:43 <Cepheid> The problem isn't so much that I blare noise and such.
15:43 <Cepheid> It's about not being cooped up in my bedroom 24/7.
15:43 <Cepheid> I have nowhere else to sit and work.
15:43 <Schism> Ah, I see.
15:43 <Cepheid> Because if I sit and work elsewhere, all I get is non-stop constant frustration from people who don't want to take the time to grasp even the basic concepts of working.
15:43 <Cepheid> If I could move out, I would, in a second.
15:43 <Cepheid> But I can't afford it.
15:44 <Cepheid> And I can't get a job, because I have nothing I can show that proves I know what I'm doing.
15:44 <Schism> Mmm. Is there any chance of going out to the library?
15:44 <Cepheid> At least, nothing complete.
15:44 <Cepheid> I need access to the Internet, Schism. And the only library local to me has much of what I need inexplicably blocked.
15:44 <Cepheid> Plus, it's more a daycare than an actual library.
15:45 <Schism> Egh. Ah, that explains it.
15:45 <Cepheid> Parents bring their kids and just leave them there to run around screeching and laughing.
15:45 <Cepheid> My OCD is effectively at odds with practically everyone around me, especially my mother. I love her, but geezus christ.
15:45 <Cepheid> She can't comprehend being quiet.
15:45 <Cepheid> She has to talk to someone.
15:46 <Cepheid> If she doesn't, then her OCD kicks in and she starts cleaning, and making a *LOT* of noise in the process.
15:46 <Schism> My brother's the same way at nights. When I need to sleep, he's rattling on... and the door is basically plywood.
15:46 <Cepheid> Goddamnit brain.
15:46 <Schism> Hm. Ask at a work placement center if they know of such a facility which -would- be quiet and let you work?
15:46 <Cepheid> I need to work, I can't be having an episode like this.
15:47 <Cepheid> Much of what I said, I don't even actually *MEAN* it, so venting about it is pointless.
15:47 <Cepheid> It's just my rage talking.
15:47 <Cepheid> Something to get pissed off about and vent.
15:47 <Schism> I know, but having an open ear helps. And honestly, you do need to have somewhere that you can simply -work.-
15:49 <Cepheid> The most frustrating part of all of this is that, despite when I say that one of the reasons I work the way I do is to make up for lost time, I'm told that I'm being unreasonable.
15:49 <Cepheid> I lost five years to constant headaches and high-grade fevers affecting me day-in, day-out, usually within the first five hours of waking up.
15:50 <Cepheid> Those five years I'll never get back, but that's also a lot of time I could have spent doing productive stuff.
15:50 * Schism headshakes. "That's not unreasonable."
15:50 <Cepheid> And now that I'm in my thirties, I have to make up for it so I can get a job. I'm nearly 33 years old, and I don't have a job in my field, I don't even have any savings, any money, and a 5-digit debt I have to pay off. I haven't even had my own place.
15:50 <Cepheid> Meanwhile, my sister's doing better than I'll ever be able to do.
15:50 <Cepheid> Because at least she can socialize with others.
15:51 <Cepheid> She can make connections easily
15:51 <Schism> Making connections is straightforward. Keeping them, that's the real trick...
15:52 <Schism> But I know what you mean. In so many situations in the world, what you know < who you know.
15:52 <Cepheid> I am stressed beyond words right now today, as well.
15:52 <Cepheid> I got my results for my bloodwork, and it's bothering me.
15:53 <Schism> What's up there?
15:53 <Cepheid> Basically, everything's high. Blood-glucose, A1C, cholesterol. The general report suggests I'm at extremely high risk for CVD.
15:54 <Schism> Agh. I should go to a LifeLabs too soon...
15:54 <Cepheid> And it's my fault, but my parents try to tell me I'll be fine once I get on the right medications, etc, etc, etc, etc.
15:54 <Schism> Blood glucose, at least, you won't get anything back from the test that a prick on the finger wouldn't give you.
15:54 <Cepheid> I want to blame it partly on them, because despite the diabetes in the family, they keep buying junkfood. Even when I go do groceries with them.
15:55 <Cepheid> Like, last time they did the groceries, you know what they bought specifically for me?
15:55 * Schism mms. "Except that would be pushing your dietary choices specificall--oh."
15:55 <Cepheid> Multiple boxes of cheez-it crackers, a large jar of that cheese salsa, bags of tostitos, loaves of bread, and very little else for me.
15:56 * Schism eyebrows. "That... would pay for a very large number of vegetables."
15:56 <Cepheid> My dad regularly buys pastries and muffins, but leaves half of them specifically for me. And then complains when they become stale or go bad because I don't eat them, so..
15:57 <Cepheid> The other half of the problem for me, is that my tastes change rapidly, so buying a weeks worth of groceries doesn't work with me.
15:57 <Schism> Just checking: you have a monthly bus pass, aye?
15:57 <Cepheid> I could be hungry for plain rice one Friday afternoon, buy food assuming that's what I want for the next week. Then the next day, I'm in the mood for miso soup instead.
15:57 <Cepheid> And don't even want to think about rice from that point on.
15:58 <Cepheid> No. I don't have a monthly bus pass. Normally I would, but the school revoked it on the grounds that I'm not attending classes.
15:58 <Cepheid> That said, for basic groceries a bus is a bit excessive.
15:58 <Schism> Mmm. Any local stores, at least, within walking distance? I know, that's almost a sick joke, but I mean it legitimately.
15:58 <Cepheid> There's a grocery store in walking distance.
15:58 <Cepheid> The remaining problem is money.
15:59 <Cepheid> Of course, my parents have no problems with me spending their coin for groceries, so I guess it's not THAT bad of a problem.
15:59 <Cepheid> I'd just need to convince them to stop buying food for me. Buy only for themselves, and I'll take care of myself.
15:59 <Schism> Mm, just let your folks know that instead of buying you stuff in particular, they can just toss you a few bucks now and then.
16:00 <Schism> That way, you can head out and assuage your mercurial dietary concerns.
16:00 <Cepheid> The problem is, they start complaining if I don't give them a list of groceries to buy for me.
16:00 <Cepheid> Argue that I'm not eating well, or at all, etc, etc.
16:01 <Schism> But... you clearly are. Your metabolism's just not where it was 10 years ago.
16:02 <Cepheid> Basically, the gist of my problem is that, like I said, my desire for food changes rapidly. Too rapidly. And in many cases, I won't eat a certain food for several days, ending in food spoiling and going bad.
16:02 <Cepheid> Most commonly this is seen with fruits.
16:02 <Schism> I have the same issue. Hm. Do you have space in the freezer?
16:03 <Cepheid> Usually, when I want apples, I only want like, one or two apples. But the parents buy like, entire bags of 6+ at a time. And I'll only eat 2, and the rest go bad.
16:03 <Schism> Heh. That's why we don't buy apples in bulk. They turn to mush in the (ironically-named) crisper.
16:03 <Cepheid> It's like my body is telling me "I need X right now, so better grab a couple and eat them ASAP."
16:04 <Schism> Sounds like pica.
16:04 <Cepheid> pica?
16:04 <Schism> Not quite the same thing, but it's when the body craves stuff it's deficient in.
16:05 <Schism> I know multivitamin supplements are generally a scam intended to prey on otherwise healthy people, but consider those?
16:05 <Cepheid> I'm already taking one, yeah.
16:05 * Cepheid is calming down now. Ativan's kicking in.
16:05 <Cepheid> Pain's still all over the head, though.
16:08 <Cepheid> I don't get these headaches. It's sinuses, that much I know. But I've been taking my usual treatment, and it's no longer working anymore. To the point that to help my body, I just stopped taking it, because 440mg of naproxen daily isn't healthy anyways.
16:37 * Cepheid gets back to coding, now that he's calmed down.
16:37 <Cepheid> Also, tylenol is finally kicking in.
17:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: 1 Second of Spike and Starlight From All Episodes of Pony [ http://tinyurl.com/r6vjvaz ]
17:13 *** Quits: Cyan_Spark (Cyan_Spark@sparks.only.last.so.long) (Quit: sparks only last so long)
17:16 <Cepheid> Blaaah, MonoGame, your documentation is incomplete.
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17:26 * Surreal_Nightmares yawnskrees and pushes into Schism warms
17:30 * Schism provides the Surry wif a tuna fish sammich! And wuv.
17:35 <Cepheid> Spitfire has come.
17:36 <Schism> Huzzah!
17:36 * Schism press-gangs Spitfire into supporting him on a Rathalos takedown.
17:46 <Cepheid> Heh.
17:49 <Cepheid> Hum. This new phone is pretty nice. Galaxy S9.
17:50 <Cepheid> Still don't see the need for such a high resolution though.
17:54 <Cepheid> After Spitfire is done with me I think I'll go give Tizzy some attention. Even though I didn't do anything to her, I feel bad about my outburst and comments.
18:02 <Cepheid> I'm gonna ask my dad to pester me today to help keep me awake. That's the other thing getting to me lately. Last week and a half I have had to conserve energy to try and fix my sleep cycle.
18:02 <Cepheid> Which means just laying around doing nothing.
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18:11 <Cepheid> Battery life is certainly better on this phone. Especially with IRC.
18:12 <Cepheid> Meanwhile my old phone is gonna become a glorified MP3 player.
18:16 <Schism> Mine is that, and an ebook reader.
18:17 <Cepheid> Heh. Hum. Can also expand life by turning on battery saver. Not like I need full power for what I do.
18:17 <Schism> Setting the screen down to its lowest brightness setting also helps, to some degree.
18:17 <Cepheid> Need to look into XDA for my old phone. Root it, so I can install whatever on it.
18:18 <Cepheid> It's a galaxy A5. To give you an idea of how drastic a change this new phone is.
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18:43 <Cepheid> Cat has been on me for an hour now
18:44 <Cepheid> And just as I say that he gets up and wanders off.
18:48 <Schism> That is a cat for you.
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18:58 <Cepheid> Hum, MonoGame, is there a way for me to load textures without using your content system?
19:00 <ADragonDreaming> porlyably not
19:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff (Pony Art Gallery) #3235 [ http://tinyurl.com/ww6aonf ]
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19:11 <Cepheid> I can create a texture directly and set the data. All that remains prior to that is *GETTING* the data to put into it.
19:21 <Cepheid> Current implementation is to add System.Drawing.Common, then use the methods and classes there to load the image, and then get the byte data directly.
19:29 *** Quits: RyuImperator (RyuImperato@Pony-trb5lu.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
19:41 <Cepheid> In any case, this implementation works.
19:44 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-g10.4be.58.172.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
19:57 * Schism offers Cepheid a sushifish scale or twelve.
20:03 * Cepheid noms.
20:05 <Schism> Instant megapotions.
20:06 <Schism> And then there's GREAT Sushifish Scales, which are insane.
20:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend - Equestria Girls / Anthro MLP Art Gallery #166 [ http://tinyurl.com/qwzkr7c ]
20:08 <Schism> Instant 100 HP, Natural Recovery+, and cures bleeding.
20:14 <Schism> Hmm. Noice. https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterWorld/comments/evruy8/by_popular_demand/
20:24 <Schism> Capcom, can we has tailrider? https://twitter.com/onigirioisii/status/970973025758670848
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21:07 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: Trixie Music Remix: Vylet Pony - Queen of Misfits (feat. Cabi & Namii) (Zizkil Remix) [Complextro] [ http://tinyurl.com/rnna8ul ]
21:14 <Cepheid> Heh.
21:17 *** Joins: RyuImperator (RyuImperato@Pony-trb5lu.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
21:18 * Cepheid is feeling loopy from the ativan now. o3o;
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21:37 <Cepheid> Tizzy is throwing a fit and going insane.
21:38 *** Quits: Bubs (crap@Pony-uh4.o2r.127.80.IP) (Connection closed)
21:39 <Cepheid> Right, so I am pretty much back up to speed with the C++ version of my game.
21:55 <Cepheid> ... Wait.
21:55 <Cepheid> What time is it?
21:55 <Schism> It's muffin time!
21:55 <Schism> Oh, wait, no, it's 4:56.
21:55 <Cepheid> I've been working since 6 AM.
21:55 <Cepheid> I'm gonna take a shower, then I'm gonna go hunt for a bit.
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22:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Ali Ali
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22:15 <Cepheid> Much better.
22:15 <Cepheid> Also, I don't know why, but Spitfire likes that laptop cover I got.
22:20 <Cepheid> Schism, I'm going onna HR Great Girros hunt. You want to tag along?
22:20 <Schism> Perhaps soonish. Making some tea to try and help me wake up.
22:22 <Cepheid> I've got 'til about 10 to 7. After that, my dad's dragging me out of the house to make sure I stay awake.
22:22 <Cepheid> Then I won't be back until about 8:30 PM or so.
22:23 <Cepheid> That's... sad. My Great Girros research is so low I can't even track it from the get-go.
22:25 <Schism> Ouch.
22:27 <Cepheid> Ah well.
22:27 <Cepheid> Death by a thousand needle cuts.
22:27 <Schism> Whoof.
22:27 <Schism> Ran into a cactuar?
22:27 <Cepheid> No.
22:27 <Cepheid> Just I meant I cut the damned thing to death with an SnS.
22:28 <Cepheid> Thing's slower than the dual blades, but it's still got a lot of hits in it.
22:28 <Schism> Oh, yeah. o3o
22:29 <Cepheid> ... Wait, this can't be right.
22:29 <Cepheid> ...
22:29 <Cepheid> The hell, MHWorld?
22:30 *** Joins: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net)
22:30 * Schism eyebrows?
22:30 <PinkieShy> hihi :D
22:30 <Cepheid> It's asking rarity 9 parts to craft a rarity 5 weapon.
22:31 <Cepheid> Datura Blossom I, requires a Pukei-Pukei Shard. That's a MR-level item.
22:31 <Cepheid> Datura Blossom I is rarity 5.
22:31 <Cepheid> This is to direct-craft it, but still.
22:32 <Cepheid> While upgrading to it, correctly requires HR materials.
22:34 <Cepheid> https://monsterhunterworld.wiki.fextralife.com/Datura+Blossom+I Definitely a bug. The weapons show crafting requires HR materials.
22:37 <Schism> Hmmm.
22:37 <Schism> I am annoyed at Capcom, by the way.
22:38 <Schism> The next MH is a gacha game.
22:39 <Cepheid> Not a gacha game. Tie-in to one.
22:40 <Schism> Hm. Potatoes?
22:40 <Cepheid> Hmm?
22:41 <Schism> That's odd. Everything I'm seeing here is that MH Riders will be a free-to-play gacha.
22:41 <Schism> And not just a tie-in to a different game.
22:41 <Cepheid> Oh, that one's new.
22:44 <Cepheid> ... 2 minutes, 50 seconds to murder a Great Girros.
22:44 <Cepheid> I may have overdone it a tad.
22:44 <Schism> Sounds about right.
22:46 <Cepheid> Hum, outside of Girros Fang+, I have all the parts I need to get straight up to the Malady's Tabar II.
22:46 <Cepheid> Er, the Malady's Tabar III.
22:48 <Cepheid> How are my LR/HR Optionals doing anyway? What do I need to finish clearing them all..?
22:48 <Cepheid> 5 + 4 arena quests in 6*..
22:48 <Cepheid> 5 + 6 arena quests in 7*.
22:52 <Cepheid> Ever notice how in the first cavernous area of the Rotten Vale, there's a waterfall nearby, with corpses and meat chunks flowing down along with the water?
22:55 <Cepheid> ... @3@
22:55 * Schism takes one of those meat chunks, and brings it back to camp.
22:55 * Cepheid killed and harvested 10 Girros, and got quest rewards involving them.
22:55 * Schism repeats a few times, for thousands of points.
22:55 <Schism> Oh, nice. o3o
22:55 <Schism> Girros Fang+?
22:55 * Cepheid still needs 1 Girros Scale+.
22:56 * Cepheid flops on down to the Rotten Vale in an investigation.
22:57 * Cepheid returns from expedition.
22:59 <Schism> That was quick.
22:59 <Schism> Bleh, I should head down to the store briefly.
23:00 <Finwe> Good evening, my perissodactyls of minute stature.
23:01 <Finwe> Mlles Ali, DashedRainbows and Surreal_Nightmares; Messrs Cepheid and Schism.
23:01 * Finwe doffs his hat.
23:01 * Surreal_Nightmares meows
23:01 * Ali doffs over Finwe
23:01 * Finwe noms on Ali's tail.
23:11 * Cepheid tosses a Jyuratodus on the table.
23:11 * Schism hits it with a zappybomb.
23:12 * Schism then tosses tranq bombs.
23:12 * Schism then runs off to the store, because it's best to do that before it becomes a bit too late.
23:12 <Cepheid> It's already dead.
23:13 <Cepheid> What, you think I'd throw a live monster on the table?
23:13 <Schism> Sure. We've done weirder.
23:19 <Cepheid> ... I can find no fault with that argument.
23:20 <PinkieShy> Yay..... more trees going down in minecraft to build a garden.. the 3rd one :P
23:21 <PinkieShy> I built my village in a forest when i started so lots of cutting down trees is expected.
23:26 * Cepheid watches Legiana try to limp away. "Oioioi! Who said you could run!?" Flashbombs it. Starts beating on it's head again. It dies.
23:30 <PinkieShy> Carrot garden is done :D
23:34 * Cepheid brings a Corona blade, with Fire Attack +6, Attack +6, Affinity Up skills, and...
23:36 <Cepheid> This is gonna hurt the Legiana. A lot.
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23:42 <Cepheid> Right, time for me to get ready to head out. Back in an hour or two.
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