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00:03 * Cepheid punches Schism in the shoulder to show affection.
00:04 <Ali> Classic
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00:09 * Ali starts to find the alerts in Factorio annoying, its been at 700 demanded concrete for hours, she is making that but the thing never goes down.
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00:15 <Cepheid> It'll max out to whatever number of construction bots you have, and stay there until the number of jobs is less than the number of construction bots.
00:15 <Cepheid> But yes, placing concrete is a slow, painful process.
00:17 <Cepheid> Parts of the problem being that bots generally don't carry more than one peice at a time from what I can tell, and their low battery capacity tends to result in needing to recharge frequently, especially if the area they're working on is large.
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00:19 <Ali> Also you hear about my crazy over the top circuit factory?
00:19 <Ali> I made a dedicated place for the three circuit types. I....kinda overdid it at the loading stations.
00:20 <Cepheid> Again, Factorio. You can't overdo it.
00:20 <Ali> Well for the current demand then
00:20 <Ali> I made a 4 car green, 3 car red, and 2 car blue circuit train
00:20 <Cepheid> Not bad.
00:20 <Ali> And with the buffer chests, that like a crazy amount of them all
00:21 <Ali> Blue is not yet to 100%, due to the ungodly demand of speed module 3s
00:21 * Schism returns from break with an aching shoulder. "Ow?"
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00:21 <Schism> Er, returns on break*. Either way.
00:21 <ADragonDreaming> rabblefrotz, IRC.
00:22 <Cepheid> Because of the Speed Module 3's, I'd actually do blue circuits in a separate factory. Have requisite materials be delivered to it.
00:22 <Ali> The factory is doing ok
00:22 <Cepheid> Schism: Azul's latest non-Cheryl comic.
00:22 <Ali> I have six green facilties, 2 red, and 2 blue
00:22 <Ali> The green is at max productions almost, running at 45/s
00:22 * Schism passes ADragonDreaming a year 2000 PS2-era Square-Enix action game.
00:23 <Ali> But again, due to heavy demand on speed 3's, I can't power the rest of it up yet. Just too much demand.
00:23 <Schism> Er, not Square-Enix back then.
00:24 <Schism> Cepheid: Heh, Cheryl's probably feeling just a tad weirded out by a cute guy having a crush on her.
00:24 <Ali> I thought it was that at the time of FF7?
00:24 <Schism> The Bouncer was one of Squaresoft's last games before the merger.
00:25 <Schism> Well. Maybe not that late in the set. Square merged with Enix in... 2003. Furrfu.
00:26 * Ali thinks Schism is trying to sound like a bad villian in a game.
00:26 <ADragonDreaming> I was trying to unlock Lunastra the other day, but it's not happening... and I think it's possible that the Witcher quest is blocking other special assignments.
00:26 <Cepheid> It's not the Witcher quest.
00:27 <Cepheid> Let me see..
00:27 <ADragonDreaming> Then I dunno what it is because all my research suggests I should be able to do it. It's based on HR.
00:27 <Schism> Ali: No, 'furrfu' is a term I picked up on USENET years ago. Also, 'phreeow', but that was from the Hitchhiker's Guide.
00:27 <ADragonDreaming> and I'm well past the req for that.
00:27 <ADragonDreaming> I have to do a Teostra hunt before the Lunastra special one happens but that's also not available.
00:28 <Cepheid> The chain is...
00:28 <ADragonDreaming> So either I've done it or something is blocking.
00:28 <Cepheid> The Food Chain Dominator(Deviljho), The Blazing Sun(Teostra), then Pandora's Arena.
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00:29 <Schism> Who knew pickles were so high on the food chain?
00:29 <Cepheid> Also, apparently...
00:29 * Schism might do a bit of MHW tonight. Maybe. But she's still got three hours of work to go.
00:29 <Cepheid> The relevant quests may not appear if the Serious Handler is your current handler.
00:29 <Schism> Though on consideration, I'm nearly done with my initial playthrough of Bloodstained...
00:30 <Ali> Should it be a Rash Handler?
00:30 <Ali> Or maybe a Brave?
00:30 * Ali slapped
00:31 <Cepheid> Interestingly, while she doesn't have an official name as far as I know, outside of "Handler", "Rash Handler" would best describe the default handler.
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00:32 <ADragonDreaming> blasted IRC nonsense.
00:32 <ADragonDreaming> I saw nothing after "The chain is..."
00:32 <ADragonDreaming> !log
00:32 <Unixkitty> https://unixkitty.com/logs/EquestriaDaily/latest.log.html
00:32 <Cepheid> The Food Chain Dominator(Deviljho), The Blazing Sun(Teostra), then Pandora's Arena.
00:32 <ADragonDreaming> Ah. So I need to go look up the Food Chain Dominator
00:32 <Cepheid> And apparently, having the serious handler can potentially temporarily block the quests.
00:33 <ADragonDreaming> ooooh
00:33 <ADragonDreaming> Well then.
00:33 <Cepheid> Also, the latter two involve a special investigation, that is, seeking it's tracks before the quest unlocks.
00:34 <Schism> Nintendo, why is Mario 35 only there until March 2021? You jerks. FOMO, I guess.
00:34 <ADragonDreaming> Which means high-rank expeditions?
00:34 <Cepheid> High rank expeditions.
00:34 <ADragonDreaming> Gotcha.
00:34 <ADragonDreaming> Care to hunt hunt?
00:34 <Cepheid> Alas, I cannot. I was just about to head off to sleep.
00:34 <ADragonDreaming> Hokay.
00:34 * Schism flops back off to work. "It is a day of endless escalations."
00:34 <Cepheid> I'm available tomorrow, though.
00:35 <Cepheid> But yeah, seek out the blue tracks and such, and you should be good. Might have to do a few expeditions, though.
00:37 <ADragonDreaming> Oh, I've 100% done food chain dominator.
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00:42 <Cepheid> Right bed time for me. See ye all tomorrow at some point.
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01:06 * Ali starts to really think ADragonDreaming's connection is pretty craps
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01:16 <ADragonDreaming> today, yes it is.
01:16 <ADragonDreaming> I shall spare you all of oit.
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02:03 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Discussion #2312 [ https://tinyurl.com/y4mllcae ]
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03:03 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: BGM Remixes Medley: Toby Macarony - MLP:FiM BGM Orchestral Medley [Soundtrack/Orchestral] [ https://tinyurl.com/y43v5w9k ]
03:21 <Schism> aaaaaaaa. aaaaAAAaaaa.
03:22 <Schism> Also aaaa: https://gfycat.com/emotionaltintedleafbird
03:40 * Ali boops Schism nosie
03:43 * Schism noms upon Ali's motorsports teams.
03:43 * Ali pushes Schism onto another team to drag them down.
03:43 <Ali> I'm finally 23 points above the religation line with 3 races left
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04:49 * Schism amplifies Resist Fire. And is now out of dosh. "Hum." Well, she can get other jewels. Easy! ...ish. Just kill a lot of Shovel Knights.
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04:57 * Ali tries to feed Schism wall chicken again.
04:59 * Schism doesn't have any wall chicken. But does now have Augment Gold, which...
05:08 * Ali drags Schism into snugs, unicorn sads.
05:29 * Schism snugs the Ali, provides 12,000 gold acquired from a single room.
05:30 <Ali> That's a lot of money unless everything costs 25,000 or more
05:31 <Schism> It's a bit complicated. I have a gold booster active as both a passive skill and an active one.
05:34 <Schism> This _sort of_ equates to finding a red rupee in every pot.
05:41 <Ali> So yeah worthless
05:41 * Ali makes sure Schism can only hold 99 rupees, then gives him a gold rupee, she picks up the dropped 101 and runs off.
05:45 <Schism> Oh no. No, no no. Not worthless.
05:45 <Schism> I need lots of gold to break down enemy drops to craft the really GOOD materials for shards. Like that +LUK one.
05:46 * Schism is also not a him.
05:48 <Schism> Hmm. Aqua Stream... _might_ be alright to grind? Eh.
05:48 <Schism> Hmm. HP max up again. Useful, but... +20 HP is not all that and a bag of chips when I already have 1,200. Ohwell!
05:53 * Ali flails at Schism, unicorn sorries for mistake...
05:57 * Schism hugs the Ali. "Ish alright!"
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06:19 <Schism> Gah. Inferno cavern. No matter what game it is.
06:20 <Schism> Oh boy, a warp point AND a save point! I bet this next room is going to be completely safe!
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06:37 <Schism> Invert... :3
06:42 * Ali has Schism fight Freeza and all of his forms as the boss!
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07:02 * Schism levels various Resist X skills. "Should get these to the point where I have them as passives..."
07:11 * Ali yawnsies at Schism, unicorn is getting tireds.
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07:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ConfusionRift
07:46 <ConfusionRift> Hello everypony.
07:55 <Schism> On the one hoof, Zangetsu was not that difficult! On the other, I did use a few Berry Spaghetti to restore HP. <.<
07:55 <Schism> And hiyas.
07:56 <ConfusionRift> He's not difficult, but he hits hard.
07:57 <Schism> Yah. That ice attack -- the crafted one -- helps a lot.
08:29 <Schism> Huh. Hidden area. [2 seconds later] What is this nonsense.
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08:57 * Cepheid grogs awaken.
09:00 <Schism> Short nap.
09:00 <Schism> Oh wait, maybe not.
09:01 * Schism hums. And grumbles at this area. "Developers, an area filled with giant monsters is fine, but... the final level?"
09:03 <Cepheid> That tends to be common even in the later CV games.
09:03 <ConfusionRift> What? It's just a bunch of large monster by stupid quantities, with an attack boost.
09:03 * ConfusionRift shutters at the Nest of Evil.
09:04 <Cepheid> Not really a nap, by the way either. Slept from approximately 8:30 PM until 4, so... 7 and a half hours or so of sleep.
09:04 <Cepheid> I'd have slept longer, but I've been having a problem as of late wherein I wake up extremely hungry.
09:05 <Cepheid> I blame the new medication I was put on for my diabetes.
09:14 <Schism> Boss, you jerk. I don't care if you steal my gold, it's not going to save you.
09:17 <ConfusionRift> Oh? Ooooh. That thing. :P
09:19 * Cepheid cracks fingers. Then cracks wrists. Though it sounds more like a couple of backhoes crushing one another.
09:20 <Schism> Den of Behemoths doesn't have a warp point. I am annoyed.
09:20 <Cepheid> I can't wait to see how bad the arthritis in my hands will be in a decade or so.
09:22 <Cepheid> Cat, why are you staring at me?
09:24 <Cepheid> Man, he must not be able to scratch that spot very well. Really, really likes getting the left side of his head and neck scratched.
09:24 <Schism> Self: "Wait, why is my gold so low?" And then I remember that I swapped out the darned gold booster for more reasonable shard.
09:25 <Cepheid> Pushes himself into it, and even twists his head around to give me better access.
09:25 * Cepheid needs to finish Bloodstained.
09:28 * Schism pauses for now, because she needs to sleep. "96% map completion. Need to clear that last zone, and... also there are a few missing rooms. But not so bad."
09:29 * Cepheid recruits Schism for the skeleton war.
09:36 * Schism will pass for now. Though she blinks... "Ectoplasm? That's all I need for these?"
09:37 <ConfusionRift> Yep, just thaaaat,
09:37 <Cepheid> https://i.imgur.com/SDxLulr.mp4
09:37 <Schism> Oh, yes. STR and CON are now intrinsics.
09:38 <Schism> INT, MND and LUK will take a bit more grinding. Which, for now, I shall not do.
09:44 <Schism> How I know that I'm not playing things entirely right: my item collection rate is still 66%. Oh well. Things for tomorrow...day.
09:45 <Cepheid> Across all humans, the average number of skeletons is greater than 1.0
09:46 <ConfusionRift> Because the number of humans decrease while the number of skeletons increase?
09:48 <Cepheid> Let me rephrase: Across all living humans, the average number of skeletons is greater than 1.0. And this is because pregnant people are a thing.
09:48 <Cepheid> Thus, some people have more than one skeleton inside of them.
09:50 <ConfusionRift> ...right.
09:51 * ConfusionRift scratches his head. Sounds a bit hollow.
09:51 * Cepheid puts a skeleton inside ConfusionRift.
09:53 <Cepheid> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1dSY6ZuXEY
09:53 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about Spooky Scary Skeletons Original Song Video
10:06 <ConfusionRift> Something something skeletons... something about a spine... something shiver of something... that and something else spooky and skeleton... :P
10:06 <Cepheid> Heh.
10:09 <Cepheid> I wonder if there's a mod for Skyrim to play as a skeleton. o3o
10:09 <Cepheid> https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/23165/ Apparently there is.
10:13 <ConfusionRift> Niiice.
10:15 <Dappled> https://prokopetz.tumblr.com/post/190550861407/contrary-to-popular-belief-the-envy-and-spite-of On the subject of skeletons
10:15 * Dappled flops off to bed now.
10:16 <Cepheid> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ViCPbgWYHA Hum, that's... impressive.
10:16 <DerpyBot> I need to ask Twilight about that one.
10:16 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about BeatSaber - Spooky Scary Skeletons (Remix) - The Living Tombstone
10:21 <Cepheid> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k6Q91N1z6Q
10:21 <DerpyBot> I need to ask Twilight about that one.
10:21 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about BeatSaber - Diggy Diggy Hole - The Yogscast [FullBodyTracking]
10:22 <ConfusionRift> Gonna have to restart. be back in a minute.
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10:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ConfusionRift
10:29 <Cepheid> Welcome back.
10:29 <ConfusionRift> There we go.
10:32 <ConfusionRift> It bothers me that the pickaxes don't follow and shift directions facing back, so it looks like they're always behind the avatar.
10:32 <ConfusionRift> Otherwise... someone's played this often. :P
10:33 <Cepheid> That, and is a dancer.
10:33 <Cepheid> Probably even choreographer.
10:33 <Cepheid> That kind of stuff takes planning.
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10:37 <ConfusionRift> One can associate a certain beat and pattern with moves, so... maybe, maybe not. This is especially the case if you're a dancer.
10:43 <ConfusionRift> Aaaw, no Train Rush or Outer Solution. :P
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11:02 <Cepheid> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjpOzsQ9YI And then there's Lindsey Stirling, who WOULD have to choreograph this.
11:02 <DerpyBot> Twilight told me this video is about Dubstep Violin- Lindsey Stirling- Crystallize
11:03 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #2085 [ https://tinyurl.com/yxcyw9a8 ]
11:05 <Cepheid> Ow.
11:05 <Cepheid> I took my asthma meds, because they've been working better as of late, inexplicably.
11:05 <Cepheid> But in doing so, I had a sneezing fit. Four sneezes in a row.
11:06 * Lumindia was about to boop, but refrains
11:07 <Cepheid> I'm not contagious.
11:07 <Cepheid> I was literally two weeks ago for C19, and it came back negative.
11:08 <Cepheid> Mind, my mother's annoyed/worried about it still. One of her co-workers, over the weekend, went to Niagara Falls to do some gambling among other things.
11:15 * ConfusionRift surprise boops Lumindia! :P
11:22 <Cepheid> ... I somehow feel like that's abuse of the "Recently Updated" section on Steam.
11:22 <Cepheid> Team 17 Digital applied "Updates" to all Worms games to advertise their newest game coming out December.
11:22 <Cepheid> Their "Update" for each game is nothing more than an advertisement. Nothing else.
11:23 <Cepheid> As a result, the entire "Recently updated" section gets replaced with the advertisement.
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11:25 <ConfusionRift> Everyone's been doing it, and it's kinda meh. Expecting an update for a game that hasn't had updates in a long time, or maybe a potential dev log or change announcement? Nope! The game is part of a special bundle is all.
11:26 <Cepheid> https://twitter.com/LuminousOcean/status/1316701821474353158
11:26 <Cepheid> Seriously, every single Worms game.
11:26 <Cepheid> Even the spinoffs.
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11:29 <ConfusionRift> That is... wow.
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11:31 <Cepheid> Yeah. It's... a bit much.
11:32 <Cepheid> I'm pretty sure it falls under "abuse"
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11:32 <Lumindia> like, if it was the most recent game and it was updated anyway, I could see an arguement for plugging a new game
11:32 <Lumindia> like "Hey, since we've updated anyway, go check out our upcoming game"
11:33 <Cepheid> Except it's not.
11:33 <Cepheid> It's not even a legitimate update. They all basically read "Yeah, we got a game coming out in December."
11:33 <Cepheid> And it fills both pages of my "Recently Updated" list.
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11:36 <ConfusionRift> That's why i ignore the Recently Updated. Half the time, this happens... just not to this extent.
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11:40 <Cepheid> Oh, I agree, it does happen now and then where a game was "updated" to advertise another game.
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11:40 <Cepheid> But this is just outright abuse.
11:41 <Cepheid> Which, given how it's already hard enough as is to advertise on steam..
11:42 <Cepheid> Hum. Tokoyo: Tower of Perpetuity is due to be released soon. I wonder how many reviews are going to complain of "traps"
11:44 <ConfusionRift> This looks intere- (sees the Roguelike tag) Never mind.
11:44 <Cepheid> I'm... not 100% sure how bad the roguelike nature is.
11:45 <Cepheid> Because according to the game's description, the layout changes every 24 hours.
11:45 <Cepheid> Rather than after dying.
11:45 <Cepheid> It's more akin to playing Dead Cells or 20XX in their Daily Challenge mode.
11:46 <Cepheid> ... You know, that is a feature that many roguelikes should have. Setting a seed, and allowing players to play the same seed over and over.
11:47 <Cepheid> Basically turns the game from a heavy roguelike to a "Okay, you die, but you start over at the beginning in the same map." type thing.
11:47 <Cepheid> Which is a bit less infuriating, because you can then make progress.
11:48 <ConfusionRift> Oooh, it's procedurally generated every day (24 hours). The problem I see if what happens with Rogue Legacy, in which you aren't expected to go through certain areas, unless you had a specific character or item. And the whole starting over can be problematic if you're expected to clear a ridiculous amount of floors.
11:48 <Cepheid> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ef3eF3CUYAU4btY?format=jpg&name=medium In any case, this is likely the character some people will whine about. I'd link the exact tweet, but despite being in Japanese, the translation is...
11:50 <ConfusionRift> "Ah, she's cute." | He. | "...excuse me?" | That's a dude. | "Oh..." (deletes game and removes from the game list)
11:50 <Cepheid> Meanwhile, if you want something less roguelike, check out Gensokyo Night Festival. Early Access yes, but the developer seems dedicated, as I watched them make the game from the ground up on Twitter.
11:50 <ConfusionRift> I honestly don't care, but yeah. There are some who do... who really REALLY do.
11:50 <Cepheid> So it will get completed.
11:50 <Cepheid> Yep.
11:50 <ConfusionRift> I gots it. :P
11:51 <Cepheid> Heh.
11:51 <ConfusionRift> It was a nightmare to play, because it was having a fit with my previous controller driver.
11:51 <Cepheid> Ah.
11:51 <Cepheid> Personally I just prefer to stick with the 360 controller I have.
11:52 <ConfusionRift> Some moves were awkward to pull off, due to so really tight timing. Then again, that was on the really early version. That likely changed.
11:52 <Cepheid> Mmm.
11:52 <Cepheid> I haven't really played it yet myself. Got that, and a few other metroidvanias to play.
11:53 <Cepheid> I also need to do a run of Rabi-Ribi on the next difficulty level up from Hard.
11:53 <Cepheid> ... With self-imposed "No consumables" "No badges" rules.
11:54 <Cepheid> May do that over Reading Week, in fact.
11:54 <ConfusionRift> Actually, no. It was too loose of a timing. For some reason, you couldn't rapidly combo or do complex moves. The game would struggle and just do one or the other, or both in succession.
11:55 <Cepheid> Ah, Hell Difficulty is the next one.
11:55 <Cepheid> Then Bunny Extinction. Followed by Unknown, then Impossible.
11:56 <Cepheid> I still cannot believe that I managed to pull off defeating Irisu on Hard without using items.
11:56 <Cepheid> Or badges.
11:56 <ConfusionRift> So you had to press the direction, and do the action. If you did it too fast, it would do the direction-less action or just inch in that direction. Wasn't sure why that was the issue, but it happened. It probably got fixed, or it was a driver issue I was having still.
11:59 <Cepheid> Given you use tend to use non-standard controllers, and DirectX annoyingly expects a 360 or One controller, it's likely drivers.
11:59 <Cepheid> As they're basically emulating the presence of a 360 or One controller.
12:00 <Cepheid> Well, not exactly, but..
12:00 <Cepheid> It may as well be that way.
12:01 <ConfusionRift> It kinda is, yeah. The program is telling my PC that the PS4 inputs correspond to those of an XBox controller. Which is why the PC still viewed it as two controllers. The actual controller, and the emulated one.
12:02 <Cepheid> Oh, you're using DS4, then yeahl.
12:02 <Cepheid> It's definitely emulating a 360 or One controller.
12:02 * ConfusionRift nods.
12:02 <Cepheid> That said..
12:02 <Cepheid> It's starting to get easier to get around that issue, sort of.
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12:03 <ConfusionRift> It's the only piece of software I have seen allows almost all controllers, as long as they have the similar inputs.
12:03 <Cepheid> I don't know what these developers are doing, but some games advertise "native PS4 controller support"
12:03 <Cepheid> I'm not sure if they just mean that they support the button set icons, or..
12:03 <Cepheid> If the PS4 has gained native driver support for Windows.
12:03 <Cepheid> I'm pretty sure it has native support under Linux.
12:03 <ConfusionRift> For the most part, that's all that it is
12:04 <Cepheid> Well, the thing is..
12:04 <Cepheid> With the ability to do PS4 remote play on the PC now, natively, there SHOULD be a native driver for the PS4 controller.
12:04 <ConfusionRift> Although, I have played some games that can see the PS4 controller, but the mapping is such a mess that it might as well not be supported.
12:05 <Cepheid> Ah.
12:05 <Cepheid> There's a USB wireless adapter for the PS4 controllers, now.
12:05 <Cepheid> And you can also use a wired connection.
12:06 <Cepheid> And, honestly?
12:06 <Cepheid> Wireless connections are nice, I won't lie.
12:06 <Cepheid> But I prefer wired.
12:06 <Cepheid> For controls, that is.
12:06 * ConfusionRift points at La Mulana 2. "The control positions are inverted, and sometimes they didn't register at all." Points at Far Cry: New Dawn. "The icons were there, but crucial controls were missing."
12:06 <ConfusionRift> Thank you!!!
12:06 <Cepheid> Only downside to wired is my cats chew through them.
12:08 <Cepheid> A lot of the problem with using controllers other than a 360 controller is the API tends to be a pain in the ass.
12:08 <ConfusionRift> My only dilemma is that I haven't found good wired controllers. They either break too fast, the wires are too short, they have some strange input lag, or they downright don't work for some reason or another.
12:08 <Cepheid> It utilizes enumerants and such specific to the 360 or One controller.
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12:09 <Cepheid> So the "simple" controller API won't work with anything *OTHER* than a 360 or One controller, unless the controller has a layout *IDENTICAL* to the 360 or One controller.
12:09 <Cepheid> To get around it, you can use the Joystick API instead.
12:09 <Cepheid> But then you're not dealing with simple enumerants such as "Button::A" "Button::Y" and so on.
12:09 <Cepheid> You're dealing with numbers.
12:10 <ConfusionRift> Or emulate keystrokes, but it doesn't go well at some points.
12:10 <Cepheid> As for wired controllers?
12:10 <Cepheid> Get a wireless controller, get a long USB cable that's compatible with charging it, and just plug it in.
12:10 <Cepheid> PS4 controller works this way, I believe.
12:11 <Cepheid> You can just plug it in with any USB-A to Micro-B USB cable.
12:11 <Cepheid> 360 Controller's a bit trickier. Especially the Wireless model, as it won't work even if it's just straight plugged in. You need to connect the dongle. The One controller, no idea.
12:12 <Cepheid> I don't own one, and until both my 360 controllers give up the ghost, I won't own one anytime soon.
12:12 <Cepheid> Plus, I also own like, two PS3 controllers and 2 PS4 controllers.
12:12 * ConfusionRift points at his PS4 controller. "It does work like that." Same with the PS3 controller.
12:13 * Cepheid goes to grab PS4 controller, to investigate what the button configuration and numbers are under Linux.
12:13 <ConfusionRift> The problem with the PS3 controller is that the mini-USB cable doesn't have hooks, so it fall off much easier. And with time, it will looks connectivity.
12:14 <ConfusionRift> *lose
12:14 <Cepheid> Right.
12:14 <Cepheid> ... Huh.
12:14 <Cepheid> Under Linux, the PS4 controller is registered as three separate devices.
12:14 <Cepheid> First device enumerated is the touchpad. It's registered as a mouse touchpad.
12:15 <ConfusionRift> Gaming controller, bluetooth device, and probably standard wireless device.
12:15 <Cepheid> Second device is the motion sensors. Not sure what those are registered as in terms of input.
12:15 <Cepheid> Third device is the rest of the controller.
12:15 <ConfusionRift> Huh, interesting.
12:16 <Cepheid> Oh, nice. You get some pretty awesome control over the LED.
12:16 <Cepheid> ... Or not.
12:16 <ConfusionRift> Actually, that's way better. You don't need the other two, so it can be used as is.
12:16 <Cepheid> Brightness is just on/off..
12:16 <Cepheid> Colors meanwhile range from 0 to 255.
12:17 <Cepheid> Ah.
12:18 <Cepheid> Basic controller is registered as a joystick.
12:18 <Cepheid> Touchpad is, again, registered as a basic touchpad.
12:18 <Cepheid> Motion sensors don't seem bound to anything,
12:19 * ConfusionRift connects the PS4 controller real quick to see something.
12:19 <Cepheid> But yeah, in Linux it's just straight plug-and-play.
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12:20 <ConfusionRift> Is it? Have you tried a gaaaame? :P
12:21 <ConfusionRift> I forgot the LED has full range RGB.
12:21 <Cepheid> Not a game, but I am testing the thing with tools.
12:22 <Cepheid> It registers inputs just fine.
12:23 <ConfusionRift> See, the PS4 controller works fine on that end, even on Windows. The issue happens when it's in use.
12:23 <Cepheid> Buttons and their number assignment(Could you check under Windows for me to compare?): X - 0, Circle - 1, Triangle - 2, Square - 3, L bumper - 4, R bumper - 5, L Trigger - 6, R Trigger - 7, Share - 8, Options - 9, PS - 10, L Stick Button - 11, R Stick Button - 12.
12:23 <Cepheid> Axes are...
12:25 <Cepheid> Left Horizontal - 0, Left Vertical - 1, L Trigger - 2, R Horizontal - 3, R Vertical - 4, R Trigger - 5, Digital Horizontal - 6(?), Digital Vertical - 7(?)
12:25 <Cepheid> Ideally, they should all be mapped to the same numbers and axes numbers under Windows.
12:26 <ConfusionRift> Let me check...
12:28 <Cepheid> Apparently, bluetooth pairing is also out-of-the-box.
12:31 <Cepheid> Apparently, the XBox One/XBox One S controllers are a royal pain in the ass to use wirelessly with Linux.
12:32 <Cepheid> Depending on the variety used, a proprietary firmware blob is actually required to use them.
12:33 <ConfusionRift> Square = 1, X = 2, Circle = 3, Triangle = 4, L1 = 5, R1 = 6, L2 = 7 with positive X Rotation, 2 = 8 with positive Y Rotation, Share = 9, Options = 10, L3 = 11, R3 = 12, PS = 13, pad press = 14.
12:34 <Cepheid> Geezus cripes, they don't match.
12:34 <ConfusionRift> D-Pad = Hat Axis, Left Stick = Axis rotation, Right Stick = X/Y Rotation.
12:34 <Cepheid> At least the D-Pad matches.
12:34 <Cepheid> D-Pad is treated as a hat.
12:36 <ConfusionRift> Also, Windows does see the headphone jack (headphone/mic), the wireless component, and USB inputs.
12:36 <Cepheid> Seems, in terms of support and compatibility with Linux, the following configurations seems to be the best: PS3/PS4 bluetooth or wired. Nintendo Joycon(Requires out-of-tree driver at the moment, but it's intended to be mainlined soon from what I hear, if it hasn't already been.) 360/One wired. Any wired controller or joystick.
12:37 <Cepheid> Makes me wonder if the PS4 controller output is supported here.
12:37 <Cepheid> Hum. I don't see it listed under PulseAudio.
12:37 <Cepheid> Might need to use Bluetooth mode for it.
12:37 <ConfusionRift> Actually... wanna check soemthing else.
12:39 <Cepheid> Even in Bluetooth mode, no audio.
12:39 <Cepheid> Still seen as 3 devices in bluetooth mode. Hum, does it report the battery though?
12:39 <ConfusionRift> Actually... the wireless Xbox One controller works via wire as well.
12:40 <Cepheid> Yeah.
12:40 <Cepheid> Of the XBox controllers, the only model that doesn't work is the 360 wireless version.
12:40 <Cepheid> Because the connector is used for charging only.
12:41 <ConfusionRift> Then again, it also uses micro-USB. The 360 wireless controller also should work with the wire. I'm sure I remember doing that back in the day. Can't test it, since the only charging wire I got is fired.
12:42 <Cepheid> Hum.
12:42 <Cepheid> The one I have only charges, and doesn't do data.
12:42 <Cepheid> And it's not a micro-USB connector.
12:42 <ConfusionRift> Yeah, it's that proprietary charger, right?
12:42 <Cepheid> Yeah.
12:43 <Cepheid> As for the PS4 controller audio, I assume it is supported, the problem is along the lines of "It's probably a separate Bluetooth device."
12:43 <Cepheid> Problem is, my bluetooth dongle picks up a lot of devices in the area, and some of them refuse to be identified.
12:44 * ConfusionRift laughs.
12:45 <ConfusionRift> I connected the headphones to the PS4 controller, told the PC to use it as main, and boom, got audio.
12:46 <Cepheid> Yeah, all I can see are the MAC addresses.
12:46 <Cepheid> Let's see what the ArchWiki has to say.
12:47 <Cepheid> According to what I'm reading, I need to plug in headphones first.
12:48 <Cepheid> Hum, still nope.
12:50 <Cepheid> Mm. Let's take a look at PA, then.
12:51 <Cepheid> Nothing there. Hmm.
12:52 * Cepheid checks kernel sources documentation.
12:52 <Cepheid> To this day it still distresses me that I'm getting more than ~150mbps over wireless now.
12:53 <Cyan_Spark> distress?
12:56 <Cepheid> This house has never been very good for wireless.
12:57 <Cepheid> I had a pretty high quality router prior to the current setup, and it barely got 2Mbps where I am currently sitting.
12:57 <Cepheid> Hum. Doesn't look like there's any indication of audio support for the PS4 controller in the kernel anywhere.
12:58 <Cepheid> Ah well. Not really critical.
12:59 <Cepheid> In any case, games *SHOULD* be able to support the PS4 controller more or less out of the box, if it's connected via USB or Bluetooth without using DS4.
12:59 <ConfusionRift> I don't really see the advantage of using it. Maybe as an emergency audio port, if the PC one has issue. Oh, and one doesn't need a TRS splitter if one is using a headphone/mic combo.
13:00 <ConfusionRift> That would be the theory, yep.
13:00 <Cepheid> You can identify the controller via various methods in the different APIs, so switching to the button set should be relatively straightforward.
13:00 <Cepheid> Mapping the buttons, not so much.
13:01 <Cepheid> You'd need to map the buttons and axes differently depending on whether you're in Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, etc.
13:02 <Cepheid> As is, I already try to be controller agnostic.
13:02 <Cepheid> I choose to look at the controllers as a joystick, rather than a gamepad.
13:03 <Cepheid> And thus, all references to specific buttons are specified via number. As are axes.
13:07 <ConfusionRift> Well, technically, the gamepad is just a more ornate joystick.
13:07 <Cepheid> Mmm.
13:08 <Cepheid> The APIs though treat gamepads as something else, though.
13:08 <Cepheid> For example, Windows XInput is exclusive to gamepads, and only gamepads. Especially 360/One controllers.
13:08 * ConfusionRift nods.
13:08 <ConfusionRift> Hence the controller issues I was having.
13:08 <Cepheid> But, you *CAN* access a gamepad as a joystick device.
13:10 <Cepheid> But it appears to be a bit more complicated.
13:11 <ConfusionRift> To Windows, the Xbox specific controllers register as XInput. But ANYTHING else that isn't, it normally registers as DInput, which very few games look at.
13:11 <Cepheid> Mm.
13:11 <Cepheid> Which is annoying.
13:11 <Cepheid> Since the XInput API is very limited.
13:12 <Cepheid> It assumes that the controller has the same basic button and axis layout as a 360/One controller.
13:12 <RazorSharpFang> That does seem very standard these days.
13:12 <Cepheid> So if the gamepad has more analog sticks or analog inputs than a typical 360/One controller, you can't access them through XInput.
13:13 <Cepheid> I'm not sure how well it handles having more buttons than a 360/One controller.
13:15 <Cepheid> Initial observations indicate it'd probably be fine.
13:16 <Cepheid> While it reports VK_*** results specific to the 360/One controllers, there's no indication that it can't return non-360/One results.
13:17 <Cepheid> Though the remarks on the relevant structure suggests that you should ignore anything outside of the 360/One configuration.
13:18 <Cepheid> Hilariously, the game device panel in Windows?
13:18 <Cepheid> It uses DirectInput.
13:18 <ConfusionRift> Yep-uh.
13:19 <Cepheid> Heh.
13:19 <Cepheid> They deprecated DirectInput, but that's what's used for Joysticks. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a replacement for joysticks yet.
13:20 <Cepheid> Strange, though.
13:22 <Cepheid> According to what I'm reading, any device compatible with XInput should, in theory, be compatible with DirectInput, and vice versa.
13:23 <Cepheid> But, that may be a driver thing.
13:28 <Cepheid> For proper support of various devices, it looks like the basic process is: Check for XInput devices, if they exist, and they are being used, then use the XInput interface.
13:28 <Cepheid> Otherwise, fallback to DirectInput, then raw HID input.
13:29 <Cepheid> That, or because of the problem with XInput being a specific layout, have the user choose which API to use for a given device.
13:34 <Cepheid> But yeah, general-purpose mapping is... tricky, to say the least.
13:36 <Cepheid> For each action that can have an input bound to it, I have to specify what type of device(Keyboard, Mouse, Joystick, possibly Gamepad if I want to make binding easier for gamepads), then an index to specify which of that device to check, followed by whether it's a button or axis, then an index for the button or axis to check. Axis takes a further step in that I have to specify positive or negative axis.
13:37 *** Quits: Dappled (IceChat9@Shady.The.Pet.Pony) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
13:37 <Cepheid> If I support "Gamepad", it's a bit easier.
13:38 <Cepheid> There's complexities with keyboard and mouse as well.
13:39 <Cepheid> Because usually, internally, the engine won't check individual keys, buttons, joysticks for input logic.
13:39 *** Joins: Dappled (IceChat9@Pony-1fk8mo.ok.cox.net)
13:39 <Cepheid> Instead, it'll do something like "Okay, check this particular action state, and use it's value to do X."
13:40 <Cepheid> But if the movement inputs are not strict button up/down, then keyboard and mouse buttons have to be mapped from digital, binary inputs, to values within the range 0.0 to 1.0.
13:41 <Cepheid> The input layer usually handles this though, so the game's logic doesn't see anything unusual, as far as input is concerned.
13:48 <Cepheid> Long story short, input handling is a pain in the arse. Probably moreso than graphics programming.
13:49 <Cepheid> While extension and version stuff make graphics programming a pain, everything generally conforms to various standards and implementation specifications. So where something is supported across platforms, it's straightforward, standard, and to the point.
13:49 <Cepheid> Input? Nooooot so much.
13:49 * ConfusionRift flops. "Should go to sleep. Lateeeersszzzz..."
13:49 *** Quits: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-i04.irn.56.193.IP) (Quit: Recharging the batteries. Laters! *shutdown*)
13:50 <Cepheid> That joystick you see may have one axis. Or two. Or two axes and a hat axis. And it may have one button, two buttons, ten buttons, or somehow, zero buttons.
13:50 *** Quits: Dappled (IceChat9@Shady.The.Pet.Pony) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
13:51 <Cepheid> Keyboards have different layouts, so that 'Q' key's position you bound on your keyboard may not correspond to the 'Q' key's position on another keyboard
13:52 <Cepheid> Then there's mice, which have varying numbers of buttons.
13:52 <Cepheid> And a mouse wheel.
13:52 <Cepheid> All of these different devices have various interfaces, some of which were bodged together, to support the various different configurations.
13:55 <Cepheid> Hilariously, the only API designed such that could, in practice, handle all of these devices without any special quirks and such, are joystick APIs. Joysticks are assumed to have a variable number of axes and buttons, so the APIs are designed to query things like number of axes, number of buttons, state of a specific axis or button, etc.
13:56 <Cepheid> A conventional mouse could be seen as a joystick with two axes and three or more buttons. Axis 1 would be the X/Y delta reported by the laser or ball, as the mouse is moved. Axis 2 is the mouse wheel. Then three buttons.
13:56 <Cepheid> A keyboard is just a joystick with a large, variable number of buttons.
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13:57 <AnnaRuss> hi
13:58 <Cepheid> Hoi.
13:58 <Cepheid> Anyways, I'll stop boring you all with my talking and go off to take a shower. ("Oh gods, finally" some people whisper.)
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14:18 <Cepheid> Hey, Colgate, we got a spambot here. Spamming via PM.
14:19 <Cepheid> Advertising games of a certain variety through links, etc.
14:19 * Cepheid points to Anna.
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14:30 <AnnaRuss> https://chl.li/xxxgames
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14:32 <Cepheid> Do not click that link.
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14:42 <RazorSharpFang> I dunno, the more Xs the better, right? :3
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14:47 <Cepheid> ... Cat.
14:47 <Cepheid> Why?
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15:06 <Finwe> o3o
15:06 * Finwe hats on Dappled.
15:38 <Cepheid> https://mods.factorio.com/mod/ToxicForest ... This looks like a fun(read: annoying) mod.
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16:03 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: Scootaloo Music: SpinScissor - Scooter Tricks [Electronic] [ https://tinyurl.com/y6872prt ]
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17:03 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Comic: Adapting to Nature / AoS 6:19-20 / New Beginnings 78 / Shadows 71 [ https://tinyurl.com/y6yd3a34 ]
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18:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Ali Ali
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18:10 <TwilightSparkle> I really wish I knew what was causing this single solitary disconnect every gosh darn day.
18:10 <Schism> !twilighttime
18:10 * DerpyBot bounces around in front of TwilightSparkle
18:10 <DerpyBot> Twilight time, Twilight time!
18:11 * TwilightSparkle teleboops Schism
18:11 * Schism is booped over to her work.
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18:47 <Cepheid> You know, given it's world's small size and puzzle-like nature, I expected Outer Wilds to be a relatively short game.
18:48 <Cepheid> I've been playing it for 10 hours now, and I'm still not done.
19:09 <Cepheid> !mail ADragonDreaming I thought I was gonna be up for hunting tonight, but because I woke up far earlier than intended, it's currently 3 PM and I am way too tired to stay awake now.
19:09 <DerpyBot> Thank you for using the Derpy Mail Service 6_9
19:13 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff (Pony Art Gallery) #3490 [ https://tinyurl.com/y2tkgpcx ]
19:18 <Cepheid> https://imgur.com/gallery/YLbDkka Sweet merciful ****. This is me 100% to a T.
19:27 <Cepheid> https://imgur.com/gallery/6PBqHhR Finwe, how accurate is this?
19:41 <Starlight_Glimmer> I also need to know whether the bottomless cabinets over the kitchen sink for dishes are still a thing 6_9
19:43 <Cepheid> Hmm?
19:44 <Cepheid> Still a thing, here. We stack all our dishes in a cabinet hanging over the sink and countertop.
19:45 <Starlight_Glimmer> Not like that I think.
19:45 <Starlight_Glimmer> https://finland.fi/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2647-02-final-550px-jpg.jpg
19:45 <Starlight_Glimmer> It has a drain/no bottom.
19:46 <Cepheid> Not like that, no.
19:46 <Cepheid> Though, it's not a bad idea, based on what I've seen.
19:47 <Cepheid> Parents like to empty the dishwasher ASAP, so most dishes aren't dry when they're put away, and as a result, where they sit, there's... spots of blackness just, fading into existence and growing.
19:48 <Starlight_Glimmer> Yeah it's genius. We do have these drying racks you put next to the sink, but an actual cabinet is a great idea.
19:49 <Starlight_Glimmer> So if you install an actual drain it won't even look weird.
19:50 <Starlight_Glimmer> Humidity might be an issue, but you can find solutions for that.
19:50 * Ali glomps Starlight_Glimmer
19:50 * Starlight_Glimmer ruffles Ali
19:51 * Ali leans into ruffles and yawns.
19:55 <Starlight_Glimmer> Also remind me to poke Finwe some day on their relationship to scandinavia ;)
20:30 * Cepheid sinngs a song that consists of the words "Herpa Derpa" repeated over and over. To the sound Super Mario Brothers 2 US Stage 1 music.
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20:39 <ADragonDreaming> !mbox list
20:40 <ADragonDreaming> I forgot DerpyBot did messages.
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20:50 <ADragonDreaming> ...why does IRC be hated? This is annoying.
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21:03 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: More Pony Music! Rarity Song, Anniversary Tributes, and More! [ https://tinyurl.com/yyt65gtz ]
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22:03 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: My Little Pony Speedpaint Compilation #156 [ https://tinyurl.com/yxumenkr ]
22:26 <Lumindia> https://twitter.com/giveitupfor15/status/1316740752395902976?s=20
22:27 * Ali boops the Lumindia. "Twitter links dun't work for me."
22:29 <Lumindia> give it up for day fiftreen
22:32 * Ali headtilts
22:38 <Lumindia> it's October 15th
22:39 <Lumindia> https://imgur.com/a/QR3ee0w
22:42 <Ali> It doesn't need more cowbell Lumindia
22:46 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (ADra@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net)
22:52 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (ADra@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net) (Connection closed)
22:54 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (ADra@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net)
22:58 <ADragonDreaming> Isn't there a ping command?
23:00 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (ADra@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net) (Connection closed)
23:03 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (ADra@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net)
23:03 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Poll Results: Have You Ever Taken a Break from MLP and Come Back Later? [ https://tinyurl.com/yyuwanzm ]
23:09 <ADragonDreaming> !help
23:09 <DerpyBot> Anything I can do to heeeelp?
23:14 <Ali> I thought there was an IRC ping command
23:14 <ADragonDreaming> I'm sure there is, I just can't remember it.
23:15 <ADragonDreaming> I've been connected for a longer period of time now!
23:16 <Ali> Well hope whatever changed fixed the problem
23:17 <ADragonDreaming> The main thing that's changed is that I'm actively doing things.
23:17 <ADragonDreaming> which makes me wonder if there's some kind of agressive idle connection kill going on.
23:20 <Ali> WOuld have to be your side only
23:20 <Ali> Cause everytime you've DC'd today says Connection Closed
23:20 <ADragonDreaming> Aye.
23:20 <Ali> My daily death is Connection reset by peer
23:20 <ADragonDreaming> Probably at the router, but I'm not sure how to check individual connections via the router interface.
23:21 <Ali> But I only have one death per day, and I have no idea why
23:26 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (ADra@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned, say I'm over the hill.)
23:26 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (ADra@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net)
23:26 <ADragonDreaming> Okay, changed port, enabled encryption...
23:27 <Ali> But you quit that time.
23:27 <ADragonDreaming> Yes, I had to in order to alter some server settings.
23:33 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (ADra@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net) (Connection closed)
23:34 <Ali> And we're back to the DCing
23:37 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (ADra@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net)
23:38 <ADragonDreaming> harrumph.
23:43 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (ADra@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net) (Connection closed)
23:45 *** Joins: sailor (Sailor@Pony-72e.tts.235.196.IP)
23:48 *** Parts: sailor (Sailor@Pony-72e.tts.235.196.IP) ("Leaving")
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