00:03 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (Mibbit@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net)
00:15 <Schism> TIL that Tiny Desk(tm) has been around for a very long time, and is meant to emphasize the comparatively smol impact of the signatory when surrounded by those to whom the bill is actually important. Sitting at it with nobody around, a blank folder and a lack of pen is quite a Kodak moment.
00:27 <Schism> ... this is a story. https://twitter.com/melgillman/status/1332479463934791682
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00:57 <Schism> Wow, um. Urban decay creeps me out greatly, and especially abandoned malls, but _wow._ https://twitter.com/abandonedameric/status/1332440291471659009
01:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Fanfiction Updates - November 27th [ https://tinyurl.com/y5kej42o ]
02:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Discussion #2356 [ https://tinyurl.com/y23tmntc ]
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02:32 * Filly_Nightmares gnaw on Schism tummy
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03:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: MEGA COLLAB (34 Musicians) Song: Sound Bandit & Friends (My Band) - The Song [Indie Pop/Alternative Electronic] [ https://tinyurl.com/y3nwavqr ]
03:44 * Angeline pat Ali.
03:44 * Ali curls up into Angeline
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05:10 *** Parts: Pony_47 (Pony_47@Pony-agtjmp.mobile.att.net) ("")
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06:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Silver Quill: Comic: Pinkie Pie Says Goodnight – Sugar-Embellished [ https://tinyurl.com/y2vbeqbp ]
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07:03 *** NitroTheFurry2 is now known as NitroTheFurry
07:12 *** Joins: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-g9d.ofe.132.45.IP)
07:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ConfusionRift
07:12 <ConfusionRift> Hello everypony.
07:19 <NitroTheFurry> Hiya
07:20 <NitroTheFurry> !log
07:20 <Unixkitty> https://unixkitty.com/logs/EquestriaDaily/latest.log.html
07:20 <NitroTheFurry> Thats still so cool
07:20 <NitroTheFurry> I wonder how they do that
07:21 * Ali splats over ConfusionRift and sighs.
07:21 <ConfusionRift> Aah, I remember the days when we had active chat ranks and stats.
07:22 * ConfusionRift feels old.
07:22 <Ali> Active...those were the days..
07:22 * ConfusionRift sighs. "Yeah..."
07:22 * NitroTheFurry dosent know of these but thinks they sound interesting
07:23 <ConfusionRift> We had a stats page that kept records of who was most active, shorthand usage, long word usage, repeats, etc.
07:23 * ConfusionRift huggles Ali.
07:23 <NitroTheFurry> Oh, cool, why does that not exist anymore
07:24 <Ali> Cause the fandom collapsed..
07:24 <ConfusionRift> ^
07:24 <NitroTheFurry> Oh :>
07:24 <ConfusionRift> That and we became... less active.
07:25 <NitroTheFurry> Well what's stopping you from doing it again
07:25 <ConfusionRift> But mostly due to the fandom meltdown.
07:27 <Ali> That and discord being invented
07:27 <Ali> They went there to flood with no mods and memecentrals
07:27 <ConfusionRift> Oh, right, the Discordpocalypse.
07:28 <Ali> Lost basically all support so well... this is it, what's left.
07:28 <NitroTheFurry> Oh, but the chatroom seems so nice :/
07:28 * ConfusionRift shrugs. "Such is life."
07:29 <NitroTheFurry> What kind of support does it need?
07:30 <ConfusionRift> I think it's the case of mods jumping ships.
07:30 <ConfusionRift> It became such a mess when it was implemented.
07:32 <Ali> It needs people here, that and mods. But since pony has moved on and Pony Life being what everyone feared, its just not looking good right now
07:33 <Ali> And honestly I don't think mods were an issue at all. Mostly the numbers dropped first and then mods poofed as well.
07:33 <Ali> I just...thought more would've stuck around for other things beyond pony but...looks like I was wrong.
07:34 <NitroTheFurry> Well, I know I am
07:35 <ConfusionRift> Yeah, we were on triple digits, and mods on double.
07:35 * ConfusionRift huggles Ali tightly.
07:35 <NitroTheFurry> Dang
07:36 <Ali> Everything just fell apart...
07:36 * Ali finds the corner to curl up into.
07:36 <NitroTheFurry> So, hopefully not sounding like an idiot... why did it fall apart?
07:37 <Ali> There were several fandom divides, fandom issues, discord, and the end of the show.
07:38 <NitroTheFurry> Divides over what?
07:38 <NitroTheFurry> And what issues?
07:38 <ConfusionRift> That! The whole series drama, the move to Discord and its collapse, people just leaving because of the series changes, others leaving because of just leaving, chat slowly getting silent, and the series ending.
07:38 <Ali> THere were several divides in the fandom thruout the run
07:38 <ConfusionRift> Yep,
07:38 <Ali> The Derpyscandel, Twi getting wings
07:39 <Ali> Then Starlight Glimmer
07:39 <ConfusionRift> Twilight super sayan fighting ultra max.
07:39 <NitroTheFurry> Sorry for asking so many questions, im a very curious person
07:39 <Ali> Pft, that was funny and I liked that fight
07:39 <ConfusionRift> I did too. :P
07:39 <NitroTheFurry> Derpyscandel?
07:39 <ConfusionRift> They changes Derpy originally.
07:40 <Ali> Derpy was a fan favorite
07:40 <NitroTheFurry> I havemt heard of derpy
07:40 <Ali> But in season two they decided to canonly name her Derpy and give her a voice
07:40 <Ali> This massivley backfired as a few whiners didn't like it due to the voice they choose
07:41 <Ali> So for about a year Derpy stopped showing up entirely
07:41 <ConfusionRift> they changed her as well.
07:41 * Cyan_Spark neighs softly
07:41 <Ali> And it wasn't until season four that she returned, but the name Derpy was no longer allowed to be used, going by Muffins as well
07:41 <Cyan_Spark> Hello Ali c:
07:41 <Ali> In that episode ConfusionRift yes, but she kept her wall eyed look
07:41 * Ali flops over Cyan_Spark and sads
07:42 * Cyan_Spark patpats Ali gently
07:42 <NitroTheFurry> Ohhhhh, that pony
07:42 *** Quits: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-aj9mbi.dynamic.sonic.net) (Connection closed)
07:42 <Ali> Then in episode 100 they gave her a new voice, this one fitting in much better
07:43 <ConfusionRift> With her silliness intact.
07:43 <Ali> But the damage was done, they didn't ever say her name again in the show, and that one episode it was in, was edited and removed.
07:43 *** Quits: Angeline (Scootaloo@I.Will.Fly.Higher) (Connection closed)
07:43 <Ali> So the fandom got really pissy over that
07:43 <Ali> And then Twilight's Alicornation at the end of season three really ticked people off
07:44 <ConfusionRift> That one was one of the bigger ones.
07:44 <Ali> That and at this time Equestria Girls started and that divided people harder
07:45 <ConfusionRift> Yeeeep.
07:45 <ConfusionRift> Oh no... that... that fan animation as well.
07:45 <Ali> Oh come now, it had Sunset Shimmer in it, that and Rainbow Rocks was its high point
07:47 <Ali> But the divisions cept on coming, that and the leaks and spoilers and so many other dumb things.
07:47 <ConfusionRift> I wasn't big into that series; I mostly found it harmless. The fan animation I refer to is... you know... the big one... that ended up breaking to pieces.
07:47 * NitroTheFurry does not know
07:48 <Ali> The one that shall not be named ConfusionRift?
07:48 <ConfusionRift> Thaaat one.
07:48 <ConfusionRift> I'm sorry, NitroTheFurry. For the sake of our sanity, we cannot mention its name.
07:48 <Ali> That was relitively early in the fandom if I remember correctly
07:48 <NitroTheFurry> Could it be... linked?
07:48 <Ali> Not even that
07:49 <Ali> It is so bad
07:49 <Ali> So terrible
07:49 <NitroTheFurry> That makes me even more curious
07:49 <Ali> That even mentioning it used to get you an instant ban
07:50 <NitroTheFurry> Dang
07:50 <ConfusionRift> If you look hard enough, you'll find it. (sighs) You'll find it.
07:50 <NitroTheFurry> Is there some sort of direction you could point me in?
07:51 <Ali> And then regret that you dug up the old moster
07:51 <Ali> We're mods, there's no way in heck we'll direct you to that awful thing
07:51 <ConfusionRift> YouTube. That's all I got.
07:52 * ConfusionRift sees the laser point at his head. "Chill! It's a big place to look anyways. It's my one and only hint!"
07:52 * Ali sits on ConfusionRift and grumps
07:53 <NitroTheFurry> Is it a series or like a one off episode?
07:54 <ConfusionRift> Fan animation. It's just one. That's all it took.
07:55 * NitroTheFurry finds alot of potential culprits but has no idea which is the correct one...
07:55 * ConfusionRift sighs. "What have I done..."
07:55 <NitroTheFurry> Its not cupcakes though, right?
07:56 <ConfusionRift> Nope, and please don't mention it. It's... not discussion friendly.
07:57 <NitroTheFurry> Cupcakes or the other thing?
07:57 <ConfusionRift> Technically, both.
07:58 <ConfusionRift> Especially Cupcakes. (shutters) Let's not.
07:58 <NitroTheFurry> Okay
08:00 * NitroTheFurry cant stop laughing at this one
08:03 * Ali smacks both ConfusionRift and NitroTheFurry
08:03 <NitroTheFurry> Wha
08:03 <NitroTheFurry> For what
08:03 <ConfusionRift> Aaiieeee!
08:03 <Ali> For bringing up that god awful thing
08:04 <ConfusionRift> I'm so sorry. ._.
08:05 <NitroTheFurry> How am I suppose to know if I found it, I could just think its funny lol
08:05 <Ali> I would just suggest not trying to find it
08:05 <Ali> Cause just talking about those things upset me
08:06 <NitroTheFurry> Curiousity overwhelms me
08:06 <Ali> And curiousity can get the kitty banned. Which I'm not as fond of swinging nowadays.
08:07 <Ali> I doubt I will, but please just stop trying to find the forbidden thing
08:07 * ConfusionRift nods.
08:07 <NitroTheFurry> What if I just keep quiet about it
08:09 <ConfusionRift> Yeah, let's just talk about something else.
08:09 <NitroTheFurry> Hm, how about corndogs
08:09 <ConfusionRift> Corndogs are good. Haven't had one in some time though. And the ones at work are always old.
08:11 <NitroTheFurry> Your work has corndogs?
08:11 <ConfusionRift> Walmart. They sell corndogs, already cooked. It's just they sit there. For hours.
08:13 <NitroTheFurry> Ohh
08:13 <NitroTheFurry> Yeah :/
08:14 <ConfusionRift> You know what I miss? Cream cheese donuts. It's been yeeeaaaaars.
08:17 <NitroTheFurry> Dang, those sound reaaaly good right now
08:19 <ConfusionRift> Aaaah, they really doooo. But no one makes them.
08:20 <NitroTheFurry> Yeah.. lightly toasted, evenly spread
08:22 <ConfusionRift> Well... they ones I had were more like jelly-filled donuts, but it's cream cheese instead.
08:25 <NitroTheFurry> Hm, never had those
08:27 <ConfusionRift> Haven't had them in years. And have not seen any other donut shops make them.
08:32 <NitroTheFurry> I feel weird looking at Cepheid's twitter, its like reading a diary
08:32 * ConfusionRift whispers. "It technically is. Not criticizing, just saying. She said it kinda was."
08:33 <NitroTheFurry> Oh
08:37 <ConfusionRift> Huh. This guy did a Bloodstained run with just boots. Hmmm.
08:38 *** Quits: Lumindia (quassel@Pony-45lvcs.pbg.ptd.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
08:58 <Dappled> 1
08:59 * Dappled phases into existence once more.
08:59 <ConfusionRift> 2?
08:59 <Dappled> Pressing keys as I move the keyboardc.
08:59 <Dappled> keyboard.
09:00 <ConfusionRift> :P
09:01 * Dappled o7. Wanders back to the bloodborne while the small human is sleeping.
09:10 <NitroTheFurry> Yesssss
09:10 <NitroTheFurry> Which part are you on
09:10 <NitroTheFurry> Your first playthrough?
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09:53 <Dappled> Sorry about that NitroTheFurry. PS4/PC are using the same HDMI cord. Not my first playthrough, no, I just defeated Ebreiatas.
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09:54 <NitroTheFurry> Ah, I love the gerhman bossfight
09:55 <NitroTheFurry> I love the whole thing
09:55 * NitroTheFurry fangirls
09:55 * Dappled is going to Gerhman bossfight this run, but if I make it through my NG+/other run after that, I'm going to submit. Got to get all the trophies, yo.
09:56 <Dappled> First time I beat the game, I took down the Moon Presence.
09:56 <NitroTheFurry> Saaame
09:56 <NitroTheFurry> Pure luck though that I got all 3 cords
09:56 <NitroTheFurry> Had no idea what they did
09:57 <Dappled> Not me, I followed a guide shamelessly cause this game is a 3d Metroidvania. "What's that? You killed this boss, well that just opened up 3 other routes in other parts of the map.
09:58 <NitroTheFurry> Ah, I did my whole first run blins
09:58 <NitroTheFurry> Blind
09:58 <NitroTheFurry> Then after that I searched stuff up
09:59 * ConfusionRift is not fond of them games. (shrugs)
09:59 * Dappled likes most Souls games. The only one I didn't beat is DS2 SotFS. Beat regular DS2, but the reworked enemy placements became too hard for me at the time.
10:00 <Dappled> Honestly though, outside of learning to properly dodge, the community way overhypes the difficulty of most of the Souls games. Take your time, pay attention, and you'll largely be okay.
10:00 <NitroTheFurry> Yeah
10:00 <NitroTheFurry> Although one little slip up and you die sometimes lol
10:00 <NitroTheFurry> Or greed
10:02 * ConfusionRift super shrugs.
10:02 * Dappled totes digs the story telling. That's the best part.
10:02 <ConfusionRift> I didn't have fun. That's all I can say.
10:03 <NitroTheFurry> Oh definitely
10:03 * Dappled goes to stare at item descriptions and placements. No narrator/explicit story teller for me.
10:03 <Dappled> Also I should go check the steam sale.
10:03 <NitroTheFurry> And haha, I didnt have fun with bloodbkrne for 3 weeks
10:03 <NitroTheFurry> Till I got good
10:04 <Dappled> Also games need to stop being "The next dark Souls" It's a popular franchise, but really, just... stop with that line, critics.
10:07 <NitroTheFurry> Yeah I agree
10:07 * Dappled also didn't get into Sekiro, doesn't consider it a real Souls game. Course not every thing From Software does has to be Souls. Gimme a new installment of Armored Core.
10:08 * Dappled blinks and stares at From Softwares list of games... Monster Hunter Diary: Poka Poka Airou Village DX
10:09 * Dappled doesn't know how to feel about this.
10:13 <NitroTheFurry> Why do you not consider it one?
10:14 <Dappled> Explicit story/no real character creation. I suppose from a purely mechanical point it can be considered in the Souls "genre" but it has a completely different type of storytelling that I consider a prerequisite.
10:20 <NitroTheFurry> Well the difficulty is definitely up there
10:22 <Dappled> Right, but the difficulty isn't really that bad in DeS and DS1-3 as long as you are cautious, but Sekiro, is far more just going to punish anything less than perfection.
10:25 <NitroTheFurry> Yep, enjoyable in a masochist way though
10:29 <Dappled> Also where's the multiplayer? That's also an important part of the Souls Formula. Being able to summon help is very important for when you get stuck.
10:33 <NitroTheFurry> True, but I like to beat everything by myself fkr the first time
10:35 <Dappled> While that can be a point of pride the multiplayer functionality allows you to practice an area with minimal risk as well.
10:37 *** Quits: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net) (Connection closed)
10:39 <Dappled> The glory that is notes. I absolutely fell in love with Asynchrynous multiplayer between Souls games and Nier Automata
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10:42 <Dappled> Let me help people with minimal effort on my part.
10:45 <Finwe> o3o
10:46 <Finwe> Messrs Dappled and NitroTheFurry.
10:46 * uni applies three chevrons to Finwe
10:46 * Finwe doffs his hat.
10:46 <Dappled> o7
10:46 <Finwe> Lt Cr ConfusionRift.
10:46 <Finwe> o7
10:46 <Finwe> Cpl uni.
10:46 <Finwe> o7
10:46 <ConfusionRift> RAdm. Finwe. (salutes)
10:46 <uni> woah hey imagine saluting a lowly CPL~
10:46 <uni> good evening, RAdm. Finwe
10:46 <uni> o7
10:47 <NitroTheFurry> Hiya
10:54 <Cepheid> I do not use twitter as a social media platform in the same sense as most people, no.
10:55 <Dappled> But you could.
10:55 <Finwe> One does o
10:55 <Finwe> ...
10:55 <Finwe> One does not simply use Twitter.
10:55 <Cepheid> That would involve getting involved in what's being discussed on Twitter, which as we all know is a bad idea.
10:55 <Dappled> That's all social media. There are no exceptions.
10:56 * ConfusionRift also kinda uses it like a journal.
10:56 <Cepheid> While true, some versions are worse about it than others.
10:56 <ConfusionRift> Twitter discussions always die in a couple of hours after conception.
10:57 * Dappled mainly uses twitter to follow Serebii for updates on pokemon, most of which he ignores cause mobile games.
10:57 <ConfusionRift> So there's no point in doing the such. So... journal!
10:57 <Cepheid> I've seen some go on for days.
10:57 <Cepheid> I use Twitter as a journal and a means to follow artists.
10:57 <ConfusionRift> Oh, that as well.
10:58 * Dappled flops off to bed. Later pones.
10:58 <ConfusionRift> Laters!
11:01 <Cepheid> Also, Schism, those doors are sealed, not surrounded by C4. WHat's on the other side, you don't want to know.
11:01 * Cepheid spots an e-mail.
11:01 * Cepheid reads.
11:01 <Cepheid> Teacher evaluation day.
11:02 <ConfusionRift> Oh ho HOOOO!
11:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #2128 [ https://tinyurl.com/yxj62qcn ]
11:15 * ConfusionRift laughs hysterically.
11:16 <ConfusionRift> $300... for an image... of an RTX 3080. THAT! That's just funny.
11:18 <ConfusionRift> No. No! No freakin' way!
11:19 <Schism> Hah -- remember the "Powerbook" scam?
11:19 * ConfusionRift sees one for $1000.
11:19 <ConfusionRift> Yep, I'm out.
11:21 <Schism> This is a classic, ConfusionRift. http://pdf.textfiles.com/books/thepowerbook.pdf
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11:27 <Cepheid> Alas, only the decent professors are available for evaluation.
11:27 <Cepheid> So no fun rampaging.
11:27 <ConfusionRift> Of course.
11:28 <Cepheid> ... Why are my parents getting ready like they have work this morning?
11:28 <Cepheid> It's Saturday.
11:28 <Cepheid> On, Rifty. Schism's been playing Control.
11:29 <ConfusionRift> Niiice. :P
11:29 <Schism> Haven't gotten very far yet in it, but so far so interesting.
11:29 * Cepheid also shows ConfusionRift her 27 pictures of various things in MHWorld.
11:29 <Cepheid> Only got 3 more to go.
11:30 <Cepheid> Also, I found an interesting thing for you to check out.
11:30 <ConfusionRift> Doing the old man's research?
11:30 <Cepheid> Yep.
11:30 <Cepheid> Interesting thing can be found in Hoarfrost Reach, it's a bit hard to get to, because it requires, of all things, some platforming to reach.
11:31 <Cepheid> ... actually, can you even reach it right now? It requires access to the upper areas of Hoarfrost Reach.
11:32 <Cepheid> Requires access to Area 13 and 14.
11:32 <ConfusionRift> Not sure. I can check in a sec.
11:34 <Cepheid> The worst of the pictures for the old man are the Big Bang attack from the Gajalaka, and the Harpoon Trap from the Boa Boa.
11:34 <Cepheid> Good gods.
11:35 <Cepheid> The former requires you be in combat with a monster, and capture a small target throwing a bomb, with both the target and the explosion from the bomb in view.
11:35 <Cepheid> Which is about as easy as it sounds because of how the camera controls are on the PC. F8 to take out the camera, F8 to snap, meanwhile your hands are all on movement and camera controls.
11:35 <Cepheid> The latter was more just a lesson in patience.
11:36 <Cepheid> Had to check the Reach multiple times until a Harpoon Trap was available, and then wait for a monster to approach it.
11:36 <Cepheid> Problem is, getting a set of monsters that will walk into the area that the trap happens to spawn in, is low.
11:37 <Cepheid> It took me nearly an hour and a half of attempts to get it. I eventually got it in Area 14, with both a Barioth and a Shreiking Legiana.
11:39 <Cepheid> https://i.imgur.com/a2sCVB1.png First attempt for Gajalaka doing Big Bang.
11:40 <Cepheid> https://i.imgur.com/mThJj79.png Final attempt.
11:40 <Cepheid> And yes, that's an Uragaan, Blue Rathalos, and Steve's Older Brother, Bagelgoose.
11:43 <ConfusionRift> Haah!
11:44 <Cepheid> I was doing reasonably well on that attempt.
11:44 <Cepheid> Until all three decided to get together.
11:45 <Cepheid> Amazingly, they did more damage to each other than they did me, but because of the chaos, getting a good picture was difficult.
11:46 <Cepheid> So I ditched it, then tried again. Recommendation? Don't use Dodogama as a target.
11:47 <Cepheid> While slow, and easy to work with, the Gajalaka will spend half the time running around covered in slime screaming.
11:47 <ConfusionRift> Alright. The highest area I can get to is 12.
11:47 <Cepheid> Okay, so you're not at the point where you can find the hidden area.
11:48 <ConfusionRift> I know there was that side thing that got me up the mountain to talk to the tribe chief, but that was that.
11:48 <Cepheid> Yeah, that's not what I'm referring to.
11:48 <Cepheid> ALso, that place is a pain to reach after that point.
11:48 <Cyan_Spark> Razor the investor
11:48 <Cepheid> Wing drakes come in all the time, but they're too high up to grab onto.
11:49 <Cepheid> You have to shoot them with a rock, get them to drop to the right height, then latch on, but if you take too long, you'll miss your chance.
11:50 <RazorSharpFang> Hey heys
11:53 <Cepheid> Hey Razor.
11:53 * ConfusionRift sees some wind drakes get spooked by a monster, and immediately grapples one.
11:53 <ConfusionRift> :P
11:53 <Cepheid> Yeah, that doesn't work if no monster is around.
11:53 <Cepheid> :P
11:53 <Cepheid> As for why I needed to get back up there, one of the pictures involves taking a picture of a boaboa skinny dipping.
11:53 <Cepheid> It's not as terrifying as it sounds.
11:54 <Cepheid> They just bath in the hot springs without the mask on.
11:54 <Cepheid> Which came as a bit of surprise to me, as I was not expecting what they looked like without it on. I was expecting something like a gajalaka.
12:00 <Cyan_Spark> A what
12:02 <Cepheid> The world of Monster Hunters has more than just humans as the sentient species. There's a classification of creatures, called Lynians, that are small, intelligent, often bipedal creatures. Currently, of note are...
12:02 <Cepheid> Melynx and Felynes, two distinct tribes of bipedal cats. Gajalaka, small tribal/shamanistic humanoids often seen with masks on.
12:03 <Cepheid> Then Iceborne added the Boa Boa, another small tribal humanoid race. Like the Gajalaka, they wear masks. Unlike the Gajalaka, they're miniature versions of a mythological entity in human society.
12:04 <Cepheid> All of them are smart to varying degrees, and quite brave(read: insane) in regards to facing the gigantic monsters you fight in the Monster Hunter world.
12:04 <Cepheid> Oh, and then there's the Grimalkyne, another cat species also introduced by World. Slightly different from the Melynx and Felynes.
12:05 <Cepheid> Melynx and Felynes are based off of a typical shorthair housecat. Grimalkynes are based more off of an Caracal.
12:06 <Cepheid> In all cases, they're basically crazy.
12:06 <Cepheid> Grimalkynes are small, but a group of them are capable of trapping a monster several times their size with relative ease using giant nets made of ivy.
12:07 <Cepheid> Gajalaka are capable of basically applying the concept of "shock and awe" against monsters, by popping out of hiding spots around a target location, and bombarding it with explosives.
12:07 <Cepheid> Boa Boa meanwhile, pop outta hiding spots and bombard with large, painful spears.
12:10 <Cepheid> Felyne and Melynx meanwhile, are typically found in Student/Partner/Apprentices situations. They are often working under humans or other felynes/melynxes for the goal of learning new skills and tricks to bring back to their tribes, presumably. Others have a much closer connection and partner up with a hunter, presumably for life, and fight alongside them while providing support.
12:11 <Cepheid> Capcom's been surprisingly careful with regards to that connection to the humans as of late. What with the desire to get rid of certain terms among our society, said terms are still used, but in more in terms of politeness/endearment/honor, and Capcom has been more inclined to include them in many important discussions/decisions in the series.
12:12 * Cepheid is just yammering on right now.
12:12 * ConfusionRift is doing a bit of researchin'.
12:14 <Cepheid> I actually find it interesting we're getting MHRise right out the door.
12:15 <Cepheid> The game, unlike previous games, has a particularly strong Fuedal Japan/Feudal China aesthetic to it, thus far.
12:16 * Lumindia boops Ceph
12:16 <Cepheid> What?
12:16 * Lumindia shrug
12:16 <Cepheid> :P
12:17 <Cepheid> In any case, a new species of sentient animal life has possibly cropped up. I think, anyways. They haven't demonstrated anything more than possible domestication, but in MH:Rise, they're adding something called Palamutes, basically dog/wolf companions.
12:27 <Cepheid> In the future classes I take, I'm gonna do my best to get digital copies of the textbooks.
12:27 <Cepheid> I find I fare better if I use digital textbooks rather than actual textbooks, these days.
12:30 *** Quits: Golden (uid250033@Pony-98m470.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
12:31 * Cepheid sneezes.
12:31 <Cepheid> Ow ow OW.
12:31 <Cepheid> ... Oh, and in other news.
12:31 <Cepheid> That exam my prof messed up?
12:31 <Cepheid> Yeah, it's being skipped altogether.
12:37 <Cepheid> It's marks have been merged into the assignments and final exam.
12:37 <ConfusionRift> Nice. Well, could also mean there's something else to take its place- yep, there it iiiis.
12:41 <Cepheid> Hmm?
12:42 <Cepheid> Oh, you combined two sentences into one.
12:50 * Cepheid designs a new input mapping system for a game.
12:51 <Cepheid> I wonder, can I get stuff like vendor ID of a keyboard/mouse/gamepad/joystick from say, SDL2?
12:51 <Cepheid> Well, vendor/device ID.
12:53 <Cepheid> ...
12:53 <Cepheid> SDL's wiki has browsing surge protection, what.
12:54 <ConfusionRift> Yeah, was getting some stuff done real quick,, before crashing to sleep. Will get back to the hunt soon...ish. Work and all isn't helping, especially me coming back later and later. In any case, crashing for now. Laters!
12:55 *** Quits: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-g9d.ofe.132.45.IP) (Quit: Recharging the batteries. Laters! *shutdown*)
12:55 <Cepheid> The only device that can be queried for useful information is the joystick.
13:00 <Cepheid> Bah, I was gonna ask ConfusionRift some questions about gamepads. He's seen/has a lot of them.
13:05 <Cepheid> A gamepad is typically just a specialized case of joystick with an explicit setup, defined by Microsoft and it's XBox 360 controller.
13:06 <Cepheid> That is, it's a joystick with two sticks, a d-pad, 4 buttons, and 3 centrally-located buttons on the front, and two buttons and two analog buttons on the top.
13:06 <Cepheid> Currently, the convention seems to hold. Ever since the PS3 and 360 era, that's been how gamepads for consoles have been designed.
13:07 <Cepheid> So, most APIs allow you to cast a gamepad to a joystick to query details from it.
13:07 <Cepheid> Or, just use the joystick API to access all gamepads and actual joysticks.
13:08 <Cepheid> And usually the joystick/gamepad APIs have some form of GUID or device/vender ID pairing you can get, so..
13:09 <Cepheid> We can get that GUID/vendor/device ID for the gamepad, and associate the various buttons with basic keywords so that internally, to the game, we can use those keywords irrespective of what the label is on the buttons, etc.
13:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Pony Life - Trial Less Trodden / Death of a Salespony / Bighoof Walking / Fluttershy Effect - Stream / Discussion [ https://tinyurl.com/y4e5o9hf ]
13:10 <Cepheid> Like LeftAxisVertical, LeftAxisHorizontal, and RightAxisVertical, RightAxisHorizontal for the joysticks. Unfortunately, this creates difficulties with input setups that lack a left/right analog stick.
13:11 <Cepheid> The relevant solution depends on the input device. For a keyboard, the simplest solution is to assign two, distinct keys, to a given axis. For example, LeftHorizontalAxis would be A and D for the left and right tilt, respectively.
13:12 <Cepheid> For a mouse, LeftHorizontalAxis could be assigned to say, the horizontal motion axis of the mouse, while the LeftVerticalAxis could be assigned to the vertical motion axis of the mouse.
13:12 <Cepheid> Or, if people are stupid enough, Mouse Button 1, Mouse Button 2 to LeftHorizontalAxis.
13:13 <Cepheid> Complexity with the mouse though is that APIs make assumptions about mice. This is partly due to DirectX.
13:13 <Cepheid> Essentially, the assumed maximum number of buttons on a mouse is 5.
13:13 <Cepheid> Left, Right, Middle, X4, X5.
13:14 <Cepheid> I've got mice with more than that. Lower end of the spectrum is Left, Right, Middle, X4, X5, Tilt Wheel Left, Tilt Wheel Right.
13:15 <Cepheid> Higher end of the spectrum is... Left, Right, Middle, X4, X5, Tilt Wheel Left, Tilt Wheel Right, Top X1, Top X2, Side X1 through Side X12, and Right X2. 22 buttons. Though officially two are unusable for anything but special purpose stuff.
13:16 <Cepheid> And, on Linux, anything past the X5 key is treated as a keyboard.
13:27 <Lumindia> rX4, X5?
13:27 <Lumindia> X4?
13:30 <Cepheid> Arbitrary names for button 4, button 5.
13:30 <Cepheid> Most commonly, they're two side buttons, but not always.
13:31 <Cepheid> A mouse might have two side buttons, and no tilt buttons. But another mouse might have no side buttons, but two tilt buttons.
13:31 <Cepheid> Left, Right, Middle are distinct, and obvious because the standard has been a left, right, and middle mouse button for decades now.
13:31 <Cepheid> With some exceptions.
13:33 <Cepheid> Apple comes to mind, what with it's "forward thinking" and constantly defying conventions. Based on the description of the specs of the Apple Magic Mouse 2, it sounds like they applied a touchpad to the top of a mouse shell, and used an optical tracker for standard mouse movement. So the number of "buttons" it has is unknown, or possibly configurable.
13:34 <Cepheid> Yeah, it's a multitouch pad where the buttons would normally be. So in theory, it could be configured at a software level to have one, two, three or more buttons.
13:35 <Lumindia> most programs I've used just call them "Mouse 4", "Mouse 5"
13:35 <Cepheid> Mmm.
13:35 <Cepheid> I'm using the DirectX documentation definition. Since that's what most APIs use.
13:36 <Cepheid> While on the GUI front, they can take on any name or icon(MHWorld for example, uses the side-button icons for them), in the programming world, they are defined as X4 and X5.
13:36 <Cepheid> Or just 4 and 5.
13:37 <Cepheid> Annoyingly, APIs make an assumption as to the maximum number of buttons. That number is 5.
13:37 <Cepheid> I'm not sure what USB HID says.
13:40 <Cepheid> Looks like the basic setup allows for up to 8 buttons.
13:41 <Cepheid> Bare minimum is 3 buttons. Left, Right, Middle. Then there's bits for device-specific data. Then displacement data for the pointer along the X and Y axis. Followed by any number of device-specific bytes.
13:43 <Cepheid> So officially, if there is a limitation on buttons, it's OS-created.
13:43 <Cepheid> OS or API created, rather.
13:47 <Cepheid> Windows, at the Win32 C/C++ level, using WndProc handling, only sees Left, Right, Middle, X4 and X5. No apparent way to identify higher-numbered buttons.
13:49 <Cepheid> It looks, however, like you can request raw input, which would bypass that limit.
13:51 <Cepheid> Which, as far as I can tell, should be the default method by which applications get information from inputs, these days, if it's documentation is any indication.
13:52 <Cepheid> As it can do so much more. Arbitrary number of buttons, axes, and can even allow distinguishing between two identical devices.
13:53 <Cepheid> On the other hand, it places greater burden upon the developer.
13:53 * Cepheid bookmarks this. Thanks Lumindia for encouraging further investigation.
13:54 <Lumindia> :P
13:57 <Cepheid> On Linux, input is much simpler. Though in the case of my funky mouse, it complicates things a bit.
13:58 <Cepheid> See, my 20-button mouse is seen as two devices. A standard pointer device with five buttons, and a keyboard.
13:58 <Cepheid> Input: Quite possibly one of the hardest aspects of game development.
13:58 <Cepheid> Because you people all have your crazy-ass devices that maybe one in a billion people have.
14:00 <RazorSharpFang> Might even have a WPF application that launches before the actual game which does input configuration et al
14:00 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
14:01 <Cepheid> More ideally, when a game starts, and there's no configuration file, assume a default configuration with one keyboard and one mouse.
14:01 <Cepheid> Then let the user configure from thereon.
14:02 <RazorSharpFang> But then you'd have to implement a UI with drop-down menus etc inside your game-engine. I'd rather not bother with that.
14:02 <Cepheid> Done it before. Not actually as bad as it sounds.
14:03 <Cepheid> But yeah, an external configuration tool is often the simpler approach.
14:04 <Cepheid> Really, the hardest part of it all is the inconsistent nature of implementation. Okay, yeah, we have these gamepads that all have the same basic layout of buttons and joysticks.
14:06 <Cepheid> On Gamepad #1, the left joystick's may be anchored to have 0/0 at the center. On Gamepad #2, the center may be anchored at 0.5/0.5.
14:06 <RazorSharpFang> Fantastic
14:06 <Cepheid> Or the joystick number may be different. On Gamepad #1, the left joystick may be joystick #0, while on Gamepad #2, it may be joystick #2.
14:07 <Cepheid> And I have actually seen this.
14:08 <Cepheid> So the end result is you need small configuration files, that map a device with a specific GUID to the conventional "gamepad" layout, translating the input before passing it to the game.
14:09 <Cepheid> This is why retreiving the vendor/device ID is important.
14:10 <Cepheid> The pair can tell you what device you're looking at, and set up an appropriate mapping. The only problem is when manufacturers decide to use the same device ID for two different versions of a controller, both mostly identical in appearance, but different internal reporting.
14:10 <Cepheid> Which I have ALSO seen.
14:11 <Cepheid> As such, vendor/device ID is typically not enough. You need vendor/device ID, and string name of the device, typically. That last one tends to differ.
14:12 <RazorSharpFang> That's so annoying.
14:13 <Cepheid> As a result, a lot of input stuff needs special consideration.
14:15 <Cepheid> The worst of this is when you absolutely want to use a cursor pointer of some sort, since out of all the input methods, mouse input has the most potential to conflict.
14:16 <Cepheid> When you use a mouse, you expect quick, snappy response from the mouse cursor. That's usually done via hardware cursors.
14:16 <Cepheid> However, a gamepad, joystick or keyboard cannot move the mouse cursor.
14:16 <Cepheid> With some exceptions for keyboard and accessibility features.
14:17 <Cepheid> Or, through the use of OS-specific functions.
14:17 <RazorSharpFang> Win32::SetCursorPos() for instance.
14:17 <Cepheid> Such as SetPointerPosition(...), after updating an internal coordinate for the pointer.
14:17 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
14:19 <Cepheid> Guh. I took some meds to help with this oncoming headache, but they aren't working. It's been over an hour now, and the headache continues to get worse.
14:22 <Cepheid> First step to input processing is basically to enumerate all the devices. Group them according to vender/device/string ID or GUID. Next, apply remapping to any device groups necessary. Ideally, within each group, apply a unique instance ID to each device, so that in the event that they somehow get enumerated in a different order, the relevant device is always consistently mapped to the controls.
14:23 <Cepheid> It'd be annoying if say, I plug in a red gamepad and a black gamepad, in that order, then assign all the controls to the red gamepad..
14:23 <Cepheid> Then later, for reasons unknown, the red gamepad is unplugged, but the black one remains plugged in. I then plug in the red one again, possibly in a different USB port, and it gets a different instance ID, and no longer maps to the controls.
14:24 <Cepheid> But I'm not sure if such a thing is even possible.
14:25 <RazorSharpFang> Hrmm.
14:25 <Schism> This is vile. Vile with cream, vile with sugar, vile with cream and sugar.
14:25 * Schism sips a high-caffeine blend of coffee to get her through the day. Even at $5 for a big canister, picking this up was a mistake.
14:26 <Cepheid> I think maybe I should take a moment to take a break and see to my head.
14:26 <Cepheid> Because my nose is feeling worse by the minute.
14:33 <Cepheid> Gods damnit.
14:33 * Cepheid takes triptan.
14:37 <Cepheid> My last chance to get this headache under control. If this fails, then I'm pretty much boned for the day. Or... hmm.
14:37 <Cepheid> I could try excessive amounts of steam.
14:37 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (Mibbit@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: https://mibbit.com Online IRC Client)
14:39 <Cepheid> Current homeopathic method is "drink some soup with spices in it." Tomato soup, sriracha sauce, salsa verde, white ground pepper, worchestershire sauce to help balance the rest.
14:49 <Cepheid> Which seems to have helped a bit.
14:55 <Cepheid> Heh.
14:55 <Cepheid> Factorio implements the SteelSeries RGB stuff, and apparently, it has a glaring issue with it.
14:56 <RazorSharpFang> Oh?
14:56 <Cepheid> Because of usage of a REST API, there's a considerable performance impact when using it, to the point that Factorio's solution to the performance impact is to use a separate thread explicitly for configuring a SteelSense RGB setting.
14:56 <Lumindia> specifically SteelSeries?
14:56 <Cepheid> Specifically SteelSeries.
14:57 <Cepheid> Other APIs for RGB coloring stuff are fine, like the Razer stuff.
14:57 <Lumindia> I'm guessing there's API differences between steelseries and, say, corsair?
14:57 <Cepheid> Yeah, they all use their own APIs.
14:58 <Lumindia> wait why is it steelseries specifically that has the performance issues?
14:58 <RazorSharpFang> What is this SteelSeries thingy?
14:58 <Cepheid> Keyboards, Mice, RGB lighting.
14:58 <Lumindia> A series of gaming equipment, like mice and keyboards
14:58 <RazorSharpFang> So you can programmatically set the colours?
14:58 <Cepheid> Yes.
14:58 <Cepheid> That's what's it's being used for in Factorio. Alerts were apparently represented on such devices by changing the RGB lighting.
14:59 <Lumindia> games that support it can have the RGB change based on certain variables in the game, like, for example, fading from a green color to a red color based on player health
14:59 <Cepheid> And apparently, with the SteelSeries, the performance hit was coming from when the red Alert icon is shown, because the alert appears on the keyboard or mouse as a color change.
14:59 <Lumindia> just as a very basic example
14:59 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
15:00 <Starlight_Glimmer> What amuses me about the RGB game integration is that I sometimes ask myself where the heck people are looking when they play.
15:01 * Lumindia steals GlimGlam for hugs! :D
15:01 <Lumindia> It's Starlight time!
15:01 <Lumindia> !starlighttime
15:01 <Lumindia> ...?
15:01 <Lumindia> !starlightime
15:01 <Lumindia> HECK
15:01 <Cepheid> About all I use RGB lighting is to indicate which profile I have active on my mouse.
15:02 <Cepheid> Since for MHWorld, I have to use different profiles for different weapons to get around MHWorld's horrible input binding system.
15:03 <Starlight_Glimmer> I'm glad I have my backlit keyboard, but I couldn't care less whether or not it lights up red when I get hit.
15:03 * Starlight_Glimmer snuggles Lumindia
15:03 * Lumindia brushes the starlight pony
15:03 <Lumindia> o vo
15:05 <Starlight_Glimmer> Then again people pay huge markups for the ambilight stuff and I generally want things besides the display to be dark when I consume media.
15:07 *** Joins: Tirek1 (Tirek@Pony-tnvaj4.hzl2.ptd.net)
15:07 *** Quits: Tirek (Tirek@Pony-tnvaj4.hzl2.ptd.net) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Tirek1)))
15:07 *** Tirek1 is now known as Tirek
15:10 <Cepheid> I only have the mouse in question because I play some MMOs and other games where having a lot of buttons is useful.
15:10 <Cepheid> That said, I didn't pay through the roof for it. I got it on sale.
15:11 <Starlight_Glimmer> I do have macro buttons on my mouse as well.
15:11 <Starlight_Glimmer> Generally speaking because switching between mouse and keyboard takes time and I'd like to avoid that while gamimg
15:11 <Cepheid> In my case, the buttons are quite literally just a keyboard. They are not treated as actual mouse buttons, because as expressed earlier, most games do NOT see past five mouse buttons because the Xinput/Win32/DX APIs only support up to five buttons with the basic mouse input API.
15:12 <Cepheid> To get past that, you'd need to use raw input, which introduces a whole slew of problems.
15:12 <Starlight_Glimmer> As far as productivity is concerned my mouse might as well not exist besides looking things up on the internet.
15:13 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
15:13 <Cepheid> Using a mouse a bit finicky when working on code.
15:13 <Cepheid> It's the one case where I prefer a touchpad in front of the keyboard, on the palmrest of a laptop.
15:13 <Starlight_Glimmer> Some of my co-workers use ThinkPad standalone keyboards. They have an integrated touchpad. That actually helps a lot with hand traveling time.
15:14 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
15:14 <Cepheid> I'd actually use something like that for programming on my PC, to be honest.
15:15 * Starlight_Glimmer pokes Lumindia with a stick. "Now go, buy the Christmas presents for my family I'm too lazy to organize."
15:16 <Starlight_Glimmer> Yeah. My co-workers are developers, I'm a developer first and sysadmin. ;)
15:16 <Cepheid> Heh.
15:16 <Cepheid> That actually gives me an idea.
15:16 * Starlight_Glimmer also does privacy policy stuff occasionally.
15:17 <Lumindia> glimGlam is cute
15:17 * Lumindia snugs more'
15:17 <Cepheid> I have an old laptop I haven't touched in some time. Thinking of just turning it into a thin client. Alternatively, I disassemble it, take the base of the body, excluding the screen, put in a microcontroller to work with the keyboard and touchpad, add a port in somewhere, then re-assemble it and hook it up to my PC as a keyboard/touchpad.
15:17 <Cepheid> A full touchpad at that.
15:18 <Cepheid> As for the remaining components, shove 'em into a cardboard box enclosure.
15:18 <Cepheid> And use them as a microPC.
15:18 <Lumindia> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411520243790381088/781974531426222110/Ent5uE5VkAAcSa6.png
15:18 <Lumindia> huh
15:19 <Lumindia> I wonder how useable that is
15:19 <Cepheid> I'd... say it'd be okay.
15:20 <Cepheid> But all the double-sized keys would throw me for a loop, as well as the arrow keys.
15:20 <Cepheid> It'd take some getting used to.
15:20 <Lumindia> a little awkward to use at first, but perfectly useable?
15:21 <Cepheid> https://www.amazon.ca/Rechargeable-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Portable-Smartphone/dp/B07PMKPRGZ/ref=sr_1_66?dchild=1&keywords=Wireless+Keyboard+with+Touchpad&qid=1606576818&sr=8-66 Close to what I want, but not full layout.
15:21 <Cepheid> And yeah, I mean, if this laptop's layout is usable after some trial and error, then that would be fine too.
15:22 <Starlight_Glimmer> Looks like I lied. They don't actually have a full touchpad, only the "joy stick": https://www.amazon.ca/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Compact-Keyboard-TrackPoint/dp/B00F3U4TQS
15:22 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
15:22 <Cepheid> I would want a full touchpad.
15:24 <Starlight_Glimmer> And I didn't realize the Canadian dollar was so low in value :(
15:26 <Starlight_Glimmer> I was under the impression it was a bit worse than the U.S. dollar, but the difference if quite significant
15:26 * Lumindia sits on GlimGlam
15:26 <Starlight_Glimmer> (from a European point of view)
15:26 <Cepheid> Yeah, it is.
15:27 <Cepheid> It's also apparently not really considered when pricing products up here.
15:27 <Cepheid> We get markups of anywhere from 0% to upwards of 500%.
15:27 <Cepheid> And the explanation is usually handwaved as "import costs"
15:28 <Cepheid> Which doesn't add up, because I have imported stuff from the US, and the cost still comes out to far less than what it'd have cost me to buy directly in Canada.
15:28 <Starlight_Glimmer> Well for the more northern parts I kinda get it.
15:28 <Starlight_Glimmer> Transport certainly isn't free
15:29 <Starlight_Glimmer> And U.S. shipping cost is ridiculous in and of itself
15:30 <Cepheid> Further north, yeah, the cost of shipping really goes up because you generally don't have planes that shuttle around goods up there. The ones that do are small planes, and typically show up once or twice a day.
15:30 <Cepheid> But those along the border, the cost differences aren't really justified.
15:30 <Starlight_Glimmer> I don't have an Amazon Prime subscription at the moment because on orders above 29 bucks shipping is free. The difference between Prime and non-Prime shipping is about a day, maybe 2.
15:30 <Cepheid> It's so bad that for some products, it was a known behaviour to travel south of the border to buy products at cheaper prices despite the currency conversion rate.
15:30 <RazorSharpFang> Import tarrifs would vary per-item wouldn't they?
15:30 <RazorSharpFang> Does Canada have a VAT/GST/PPST ?
15:31 <Cepheid> Depends on where you are in Canada.
15:31 <Cepheid> Ontario has the HST, Harmonized Sales Tax, a combination of the GST and PST.
15:31 <Cepheid> In Ontario, currently it's 13%.
15:32 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (Mibbit@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net)
15:32 <RazorSharpFang> We have GST-Deferred taxation for imported products.
15:33 <Cepheid> But like I said, some products are simply heavily overpriced, tarriffs be damned.
15:33 <Starlight_Glimmer> We have VAT, normally 19%. There are special rates for certain foods etc.
15:33 <Cepheid> There was actually a news report a few years back that looked into it.
15:33 <Cepheid> Hence the above 0% to 500% upmarking mentioned above. That was what they found, and in many cases, it didn't match the tarriffs at all.
15:33 <Starlight_Glimmer> Imported goods are subject to VAT and tariffs.
15:34 <Cepheid> Vehicles being the worst of the lot.
15:34 <Starlight_Glimmer> What I like about our system though: Prices displayed in stores include VAT.
15:35 <Starlight_Glimmer> It's beyond me why that's different in the U.S.
15:36 <RazorSharpFang> That's how it's done on the business-side here in Australia, as opposed to the end-user perspective.
15:36 <Starlight_Glimmer> And yeah I realize local taxes play a role, but that's a very anit-consumer thing, not being able to add up prices in your head.
15:36 <RazorSharpFang> So maybe they think everyone is a business.
15:36 <Starlight_Glimmer> RazorSharpFang: Same here. That makes sense though. Companies don't actually pay VAT.
15:37 <RazorSharpFang> Companies have a complex system of GST Payable and GST Receivable
15:38 <Starlight_Glimmer> (You basically can deduct what you paid in VAT from what you receive in VAT. VAT doesn't affect the cost of an item for companies)
15:38 <RazorSharpFang> Yeah, basically the same. You can either pay more or get paid GST depending on the circumstances of that particular accounting period. Averages to 0 overall.
15:38 <Cepheid> To deal with the issue of tax on prices, I assume 15% tax, if I don't have a calculator.
15:38 <Cepheid> Since 15% is easy to calculate.
15:39 <Cepheid> But yes, the lack of taxes being listed is anti-consumer and an annoyance.
15:41 <RazorSharpFang> But no-one wants to be the first to do so, because it'll look like their prices are higher than others.
15:42 <ADragonDreaming> I once read that it's partially done as a method of ensuring tax rates remain relatively low.
15:43 <ADragonDreaming> With tax only added at the till, it serves as an alert to the public that "hey, you're being taxed" which fuels a certain emotional reaction to said tax rates being raised.
15:45 <Cepheid> Kind of defeats the purpose though, when companies will change prices or product sizes to give less for more, etc.
15:45 <ADragonDreaming> *shrug*
15:45 <ADragonDreaming> for online retailers not including the tax up-front makes sense simply because the tax rates are different depending on state (and maybe city?)
15:46 <Cepheid> Yeah, that makes more sense in this case.
15:48 <ADragonDreaming> The same might apply for retailers in general, where logistically speaking it's easier to add tax at the till than list it on the sticker due to there not being a single tax rate for items.
15:48 <Cepheid> There is that, yes.
15:49 <Cepheid> Some products are not covered by the HST here in Ontario.
15:49 <Cepheid> They aren't taxed at all, some of them.
15:50 * Cepheid sighs.
15:50 <Cepheid> Headache's coming back.
15:50 <ADragonDreaming> Here's a good explanation: https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-the-US-include-sales-tax-in-prices
15:53 <Cepheid> You know, a good way for me to learn some expressions in Japanese is to try associating them with expressions I myself use in English, rather than just a direct translation.
15:55 <Cepheid> 「じゃあ」, jyaa, "then...; if that is the case, ..." would approximately, in my own speech, translate to "Right then, with that in mind...", based on usage I've seen.
15:55 <RazorSharpFang> "Therefore" ?
15:55 <Cepheid> Not quite.
15:56 <Cepheid> "therefore" is だから.
16:04 <Cepheid> Right, I'm being told in no kind words to take another of my triptans and lay down, putting the laptop away. I'll be back in an hour or two.
16:04 <RazorSharpFang> We need more kind words.
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16:46 <Lazerus2006> what up
16:46 <uni> heyo
16:52 <Schism> [screaming intensifies]
16:52 * Cepheid sweats profusely.
16:54 <Schism> This weekend is off to a great start. And I just now internalized that I signed up for a 13-hour shift on Cyber Monday.
16:54 * Schism runs to the store, because she is desperately in need of a booster.
17:00 * Cepheid moves self upstairs to dark bedroom, this living room is just too bright.
17:02 <Cepheid> Right. To hell with this. *Sets up an appointment with doctor.*
17:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: This Very Strange Huffy Twilight Sparkle "Quad" [ https://tinyurl.com/y4anemye ]
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17:14 <Cepheid> Monday at 11:18 AM. Earliest I could get.
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17:16 * Schism noms a sandwich.
17:17 <Schism> That's not a bad timeframe. Also, are you going to discuss things such as endocrinology with said doctor?
17:18 <Cepheid> No, this is for my headaches.
17:18 <Cepheid> I suspect I have a sinus infection, based on mounting evidence.
17:18 <Cepheid> Or, at least, the one I have is worsening.
17:18 <Schism> Uergh.
17:18 <Cepheid> So, a round of antibiotics.
17:20 * Schism nodnods.
17:21 <Cepheid> Least the darkness is helping with the headache. o3o
17:23 <Cepheid> Ye know, I wonder how much of my nasal/sinus pain is caused by having a pair of glasses sitting on my nose. I mean, right now, a majority of the pressure pain right now is exactly where one of the pads sits.
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17:31 *** Joins: Pony|53083 (Pony53083@Pony-taj8dp.cable.virginm.net)
17:37 <Schism> I really do hope that the two young women who entered the grocery store before me were removed, as they decided it wasn't worthwhile for them to wear masks.
17:37 <Schism> I, meanwhile, steered completely clear.
17:42 * Starlight_Glimmer puts Schism in a hazmat suit.
17:42 * Schism feels like at this point she'd never take it off.
17:44 <Cepheid> Meanwhile, I should be in a bubble or a hazmat suit permanently, not for my safety, but for everyone else's safety.
17:45 <Starlight_Glimmer> To be honest: The people ignoring safety precautions annoy me just as much as those trying to religiously enforce them.
17:46 <Cepheid> And yet, we have good reason to enforce them, while those ignoring the safety precautions do not have any good reasons for what they do.
17:46 <Starlight_Glimmer> I had a women yell at me in a grocery store because she was under the impression I wasn't keeping the 1.5m distance. It was actually more like 2m I was away.
17:46 <Cepheid> I'm diabetic, I have chronic health problems, if I catch COVID-19 because some fuckwad decided that it was fake, or that wearing a mask was oppression, I can, and will, hold them personally and directly responsible.
17:47 <Cepheid> And that's all I really have to say on this topic, because any further discussion of it will only piss me off further.
17:47 <Starlight_Glimmer> That's not the point.
17:47 <Starlight_Glimmer> You can control your own personal risk very well. There's no need for drama.
17:47 <Schism> I've had an old man literally breathing down my neck at one point while waiting in line at the checkout. I have absolutely no respect or appreciation for those who are unwilling to engage in a series of actions intended not only to keep them safe, but to keep their fellows safe as well.
17:48 <Cepheid> And yet, you are stirring up drama by suggesting that it is a problem that people are actively encouraging further distancing.
17:48 <Cepheid> It's a minor inconvenience.
17:48 <Starlight_Glimmer> No. You can ask nicely. Like humans.
17:48 <Cepheid> Just back off.
17:48 <Cepheid> We tried that.
17:48 <Cepheid> No one's fucking listening.
17:49 <Schism> Urgh. Okay, I should get back to work. These shoes aren't going to sell themselves... and a queue of 100 customers is going to be the rest of my day.
17:49 <Cepheid> I tried being nice with people, but they don't want to have any of it either way.
17:49 <Starlight_Glimmer> And yelling helps? I mean it does help in getting punched in the face :P
17:49 <Cepheid> Yeah, well...
17:49 <Cepheid> Imagine being yelled at that you're a slave to oppression, or that you're an idiot for wearing a mask.
17:49 <Cepheid> Among other things.
17:49 <Cepheid> It's really tiring.
17:50 <Cepheid> Like, incredibly tiring, and honestly I've had enough of it.
17:50 <Starlight_Glimmer> So wear ear buds.
17:50 <Cepheid> ...
17:50 <Starlight_Glimmer> I do all the time.
17:50 <Cepheid> ...
17:50 <Starlight_Glimmer> No need to interact with people.
17:50 <Cepheid> You know what? Fuck this.
17:53 <Cepheid> It's amazing how utterly selfish you people are. You can harass people left, right and center, but when someone returns the favour, you push it and make it fall on *THEM* to resolve the problem instead of stopping to think that maybe *YOU* are who should be changing. Why the fucking hell would you suggest that *I* wear earplugs, instead of *OTHERS* who are being assholes being educated on what they should be doing?
17:53 <Starlight_Glimmer> What?
17:53 <Cepheid> The US has tens of thousands getting sick every day. Thousands are dying every day.
17:53 <Starlight_Glimmer> Yes and yelling at people probably kills a couple more
17:54 <Cepheid> And you have the gall to tell me that rather than I educate others who are bothering me, that I should just wear earplugs so silence them?
17:54 <Starlight_Glimmer> No. I tell you not to listen to silly people.
17:54 <Cepheid> And yet, your suggestion is earplugs.
17:54 <Starlight_Glimmer> If they get in you space tell them nicely.
17:54 <Cepheid> SO I have to inconvenience myself for the sake of not hearing them.
17:55 <Cepheid> How is that right?
17:55 <Starlight_Glimmer> Well I call listening to music a benefit.
17:55 <Starlight_Glimmer> It's a suggestion.
17:55 <Cepheid> But it's still a misguided, rude one to make.
17:55 <Starlight_Glimmer> I'm not forcing you to wear ear buds, now am I?
17:55 <Cepheid> You don't get it.
17:56 <Starlight_Glimmer> Yes. I'm also ignorant when I offer someone water who's thirsty, I realize ;)
17:56 <Cepheid> The implication of your suggestion is that it is all upon *ME* to resolve the problem.
17:56 <Cepheid> I am the one being inconvenienced, so I should be the one to change.
17:56 <Cepheid> Not them.
17:56 <Starlight_Glimmer> No. It's not to make it a problem in the first place.
17:57 <Cepheid> There wouldn't *BE* a problem in the first place if people listened.
17:57 <Starlight_Glimmer> When you say someone is a problem you should look in the mirror.
17:57 <Cepheid> But because we can't seem to get people to listen, the problem exists anyways.
17:57 <Cepheid> Very nice.
17:57 <Cepheid> You should take your own advice.
17:57 <Cepheid> Think before you make a suggestion. It might get you less flak for it.
17:58 * Cepheid sighs, goes off to take ativan.
17:58 <Starlight_Glimmer> I do. I never attribute to malice what can be explained with ignorance.
17:58 *** Joins: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-aj9mbi.dynamic.sonic.net)
17:58 <Cepheid> You didn't in this case.
17:59 <Starlight_Glimmer> How?
17:59 * Cepheid sighs.
18:00 <Cepheid> I'll let someone else explain it to you, since my rage and vitriol are getting in the way of being able to comprehensibly explain it to you.
18:00 <Cepheid> And being a discredit to me.
18:01 <Starlight_Glimmer> This is in a nutshell what annoys me when talking to people about politics: You can't have normal civil conversations anymore. If we can't talk and exchange arguments nothing will ever change for the better.
18:01 <Cepheid> Yep.
18:01 <Cepheid> I can't control myself.
18:01 <Cepheid> That's not news to me or anyone else around here.
18:02 <Cepheid> It's a frustrating aspect of myself that I have been trying to control and improve over the years, but not having any luck.
18:02 <Cepheid> That's why I tried to distance myself earlier.
18:02 <Cepheid> People think I'm not aware that my behaviour is wrong. I'm very keenly aware.
18:02 <Starlight_Glimmer> I'm not saying that.
18:03 <Cepheid> No, I am.
18:03 <Cepheid> I'm just re-affirming what is the truth in my case.
18:03 <Cepheid> Never expect to have a civil conversation with me about something controversial. It'll never happen. You're better off just telling me to go sit in a corner.
18:03 <Cepheid> Oookay, I need to stop this.
18:04 <Cepheid> This is the road to depression.
18:04 <Starlight_Glimmer> Actually I said in a way what you have shown is surprisingly common. That's in a way an excuse.
18:04 <Starlight_Glimmer> Doesn't mean we should stop trying.
18:04 <Cepheid> Glimmer, if you have any common sense, I would advise stopping down this path. My brain is in a precarious position right now.
18:05 <Cepheid> I am trying to control it.
18:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend - Equestria Girls / Anthro MLP Art Gallery #247 [ https://tinyurl.com/y2yjcuxo ]
18:09 <ADragonDreaming> Glimglam: please don't poke Cepheid. You want to discuss why harsh words are needed for those refusing to follow health recommendations, pm me.
18:13 <Cepheid> I just.. I don't get it. What is so hard about all of this to grasp, to comprehend? Look at what is going on in parts of the world. Despite our best attempts to get people to listen, people are pulling stunts like holding anti-mask rallies, people are intentionally coughing on others to make a point, and in some places, people have actually tried to GET INTO THE ICU ILLEGALLY in an attempt to prove that the situation isn't
18:13 <Cepheid> as bad as it should be.
18:13 <Cepheid> Can you blame some of us for being upset?
18:14 <Cepheid> Am I not allowed to think "Okay, enough is enough, you people have to start listening."
18:14 <Cepheid> I understand your concern that you don't want people freaking out and yelling at you about it.
18:14 <Cepheid> But if you don't want us reacting that way, then LISTEN TO THE EXPERTS.
18:15 <Cepheid> Since people are apparently capable of completely NOT DOING THAT, and the problem only continues to get worse, those of us on the side of the right, have to start acting.
18:15 <Cepheid> And telling someone that the best way to deal with listening to other people being arseholes, is to ignore them by putting in earplugs/
18:15 <Cepheid> What the hell is that?
18:15 <Cepheid> How does *THAT* solve anything?
18:16 <Cepheid> It doesn't solve anything other than I don't have to listen to other people.
18:16 <Cepheid> But there's more to it than that.
18:16 <Cepheid> I can't wear headphones for long periods of time. I can't wear earplugs for long periods of time.
18:16 <Cepheid> And on top of it all?
18:16 <Cepheid> I'm constantly inundated with people saying that someone has to step up and do something, someone has to do the right thing, constantly.
18:17 <Cepheid> Like it is my duty to step up.
18:17 <Cepheid> And when I do, I get agitated, I get rude, I get beligerent.
18:17 <Cepheid> Because no one listens to the polite me.
18:17 <Cepheid> Being polite isn't working. Being quiet isn't working.
18:17 <Cepheid> People need a slap upside the face.
18:18 <Cepheid> I haven't left this house in ten months for anything but medical reasons.
18:18 <Cepheid> Because I chose to listen to the experts.
18:18 <Cepheid> And then I see on the news, constant stories about people who insist the disease isn't real, that it's not as bad as it is being reported, that it's not as bad as the flu, and being bloody gods damned stupid.
18:18 <Cepheid> And it continues. And it continues.
18:18 <Cepheid> It is non-stop.
18:19 <Cepheid> People cannot grasp what the right thing is to do here.
18:19 <Cepheid> I have sat mostly quiet, letting people do their own thing, because any time *I* get involved, all that comes out is rage.
18:19 <Cepheid> It is tiring.
18:19 <Cepheid> Very, very tiring.
18:19 <Cepheid> And the worst part is...
18:20 <Cepheid> It's not going to get any better. Once the vaccine comes out, we're going to have anti-vaxxers who refuse to get it, and so, because of them, the problem will persist.
18:20 <Cepheid> Worse yet, it's going to be turned into a political tool in the US in January, because heavens forbid the republican party actually fucking get off it's useless dick arses and DO SOMETHING.
18:21 <ADragonDreaming> I'm watching Georgia with interest.
18:21 <Cepheid> If it wasn't for the fucking US being filled half by idiots who are loud and vocal, and half by people who are too quiet and meek, we would NOT. BE. HERE.
18:21 <Cepheid> Day after day, week after week, month after month.
18:21 <ADragonDreaming> If we can unseat the Turtle...
18:21 <Cepheid> It's the same.
18:22 <Cepheid> "We're turning the corner" "Our rights are being repressed!" "We should be allowed to congregate for religious reasons."
18:22 <Cepheid> For the world's greatest gods damned country on the planet, it sure as hell doesn't look like it right now, and it really seems keen on blaming the current pandemic on China, never mind the fact that the US people traveling to and from it probably more than any other country in the world, thus making it a prime vector for spread.
18:23 <Cepheid> The arrogance of your country, it's leadership, is aggravating.
18:23 <Cepheid> I have tried to keep quiet about it.
18:23 <Cepheid> But I can't anymore.
18:23 <Cepheid> I live to the north of the United States, near the border.
18:23 <Cepheid> It's closed, but people are finding loopholes to get through.
18:23 <Cepheid> And because of stupidity, we are seeing a surge in cases again.
18:24 <Cepheid> Now tell me that I am to just sit here and be quiet, and not harass the people who are ignoring the rules, Starlight_Glimmer. TELL ME.
18:24 <Cepheid> Do you have the audacity to stand there, and tell me that I shouldn't be telling other people what to do?
18:25 <Cepheid> Can you, with a good conscience, tell me that I am wrong about how we should handle this?
18:25 <Cepheid> My parents are diabetic, they continue to work because their jobs are essential services.
18:25 <Cepheid> One of them is a front-facing security guard job.
18:26 <Cepheid> The other is a technician who walks into peoples homes to fix their laptop, printer, or whatever needs fixing.
18:26 <Cepheid> The cases in Ottawa and the surrounding region is slowly increasing.
18:26 <Cepheid> I am diabetic, and I have chronic breathing issues. My parents are worried that they will bring COVID-19 home, and we all get regularly tested, because we can't trust other people to listen and do the right thing.
18:27 <Cepheid> Tell me I'm wrong.
18:27 <Cepheid> I dare you.
18:27 <Cepheid> I am so sick of this. 10 months and ongoing, and people are still being bloody stupid.
18:27 <Cepheid> But of course, all of this is moot.
18:28 <Cepheid> Because I'm being rude. I'm being insulting. I'm being belligerent.
18:28 <Cepheid> Why would anyone ever listen to me?
18:28 <Cepheid> I'm sorry I'm so ill-mannered and angry when my temper flares.
18:28 <Cepheid> But when it flares, it flares for a good reason.
18:30 <Cepheid> Aaaand I'm having a breakdown.
18:31 * ADragonDreaming hugs
18:31 <Cepheid> I need to calm down before one of my parents finds me.
18:32 <Cepheid> Because I do NOT want to hear the question.
18:32 <Cepheid> I can already hear it.
18:32 <Cepheid> "Have you taken your meds?" Yeah, yeah I have, and I'm still losing it. Fuck off.
18:34 <Cepheid> For a society that constantly tells me that I should think before I speak, I really wish this society would listen to it's own damned advice.
18:34 <Cepheid> Every time I think about something. It's always extremely recursive.
18:35 <Cepheid> I think I have to do X. If I do X, then Y and/or Z can happen. But then, from Y I have A, B, and C to worry about.
18:35 <Cepheid> Does no one thing past that first branch?
18:35 <Cepheid> How do you make such blindingly fast decisions?
18:35 <Cepheid> How do you think "This is the quickest, best approach, do it." and just do it?
18:36 <Cepheid> That's the only reason I can conclude people make comments that are misinterpreted.
18:36 <Cepheid> They don't think past the first thing that comes to mind.
18:36 <Cepheid> But that can't be right.
18:38 <Cepheid> I'm just gonna sit over here and dig my nails into my arm until I feel calm.
19:21 * Schism glurgh. She groans from work.
19:21 * ADragonDreaming offers chocolate?
19:21 *** Joins: Ali (Ali@Pony-n3j093.iplsin.sbcglobal.net)
19:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Ali Ali
19:21 * Schism headshakes. She could have chocolate milk, but right now, she's just trying to relax a little bit.
19:22 <ADragonDreaming> I should eat.
19:25 <Starlight_Glimmer> I have white hot chocolate powder in the cupboard and not used it in ages. Should be a crime :/
19:27 <ADragonDreaming> I pulled out raspberry vinaigrette instead of ketchup.
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20:47 <ADragonDreaming> let's see... picture-in-picture to watch YT while hunting. This should be interesting.
20:52 <Finwe> Mlles Ali, Filly_Nightmares, Angeline and Schism; Messrs Starlight_Glimmer, Dappled and ADragonDreaming.
20:52 * Finwe doffs his hat.
20:52 * Angeline hides.
20:53 * Finwe sips his angostura bark tonic drink.
20:53 * Starlight_Glimmer unhides Angeline
20:53 <Starlight_Glimmer> Good evening Finwe
20:54 * Angeline ninja vanishes.
21:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Comic: Lullaby 132 / Math / Random 129-132 / Blessing / Catastrophe 2 / Movie Slate: Book [ https://tinyurl.com/yyu2m95j ]
21:14 <ADragonDreaming> Huzzah. Black Diablos capped with an Among Us game in the upper right.
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22:47 <Schism> aurghlsdxlcbih.
22:47 <NitroTheFurry> Yes
22:48 <Schism> Monday is going to be a delightful experience. I am not the only person who is going to have a 13-hour shift.
22:48 <NitroTheFurry> Jeese, 13 hours? For what
22:48 <Schism> Somehow I'd thought that this was the end result of me having a doctor's appointment on Tuesday, but no. This is Cyber Monday.
22:49 <Schism> If the phone queues don't crack ~100 angry callers, I'll be frankly shocked.
22:49 <NitroTheFurry> Is cyber Monday like black Friday?
22:50 <Schism> Black Friday is considered to be the pre-eminent day for retail sales. Cyber Monday, occurring three days after, is considered to be the day for online sales.
22:50 *** Joins: Heartbreak (Heartbreak@Pony-gja4ce.mn.comcast.net)
22:51 <Schism> It is going to be long. It is going to be involved. It will test the sanity of every one of the staff. It will break hearts, and cause heartbreak. This is the day that separates the true agents from the chaff.
22:53 <NitroTheFurry> Oh, I like online sales
22:53 * NitroTheFurry waits for the game deals
22:54 <Schism> Well, I don't sell games, I assist in the selling of shoes.
22:54 * Schism randomly affixes two pairs of pink sneakers to HB.
22:54 <NitroTheFurry> Ooh, ooh, can I get kitty kat sneakers?
22:55 <Schism> Sadly, we don't have a SANRIO collection at this point. Yet. (I've kept saying that if we were to get an Aggretsuko collection it would sell out in a hot minute.)
22:56 <NitroTheFurry> Oh, it so would
22:57 <Schism> Closest we have are a couple of leopard print ones.
23:03 *** Joins: Bubbles (EvaSh@Pony-24ddmg.cable.virginm.net)
23:04 <Schism> Oh. ...huh. Control has an assist mode. And it includes an invincibility option, for those who just want to enjoy the story. I'll not be enabling it, but it's very nice to see.
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23:39 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff (Pony Art Gallery) #3534 [ https://tinyurl.com/y46b8zva ]
23:41 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (Mibbit@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: https://mibbit.com Online IRC Client)
23:41 * Dappled horses into existence.
23:45 * Schism pulls the cord. Sees orange. Pulls it again. Sees blue. Pulls it again. Sees... okay.
23:46 * Schism listens to the swinging jazz remix of The Girl from Ipanema.
23:49 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (~Mibbit@Pony-0he86q.mi.comcast.net)
23:50 * Schism explores the Overview Motel. "Yeah, this looks like every other motel I've ever visited."
23:50 <ADragonDreaming> Control?
23:50 <Schism> Yup.
23:50 <Dappled> It's a game kinda based on the SCP foundation.
23:50 <ADragonDreaming> qu'est-ce que c'est?
23:53 <Schism> Light switch is now here again. o3o;
23:53 * Schism pulls it.
23:53 <ADragonDreaming> In other news, lance is excellent for your zero-damage run against Tigrex.
23:54 <ADragonDreaming> I think I'll still go gunlance against Brute, tho.
23:54 <ADragonDreaming> Might do either or.
23:55 <Dappled> Palico Rally 5 and Wide Range 5. What more do you need?
23:55 <ADragonDreaming> What, let the cat hunt him?
23:55 <Dappled> Exactly.
23:57 <ADragonDreaming> Might try that out on a full solo run.
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