00:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Discussion: What Stories do You Want to See Explored in Season 10? [ http://tinyurl.com/yyspvabr ]
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00:45 * Golden flops.
00:47 * Schism flips.
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01:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Voting for the Top 10 Pony Videos of September Opens - 100th Month [ http://tinyurl.com/yxv87dax ]
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01:58 * Cepheid wanders off to shower.
02:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Discussion #1939 [ http://tinyurl.com/y32gwn9g ]
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03:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: EQG Concept Music: Dizzy Inmotion - The Sunset Shimmer Show / Spellshatter / Dance For Me [Hip Hop] [ http://tinyurl.com/y4zmtatl ]
03:08 * DashedRainbows whinnies at Ali
03:08 * Ali flops over DashedRainbows and licks her till dripping
03:10 * DashedRainbows drips all over Ali
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03:27 * DashedRainbows sniffs Jackie and wags her tail
03:27 * Jackie pets DashedRainbows
03:31 * Schism mutters at this boss.
03:36 * DashedRainbows sighs and licks
03:44 * Jackie bellyrubs
03:47 * DashedRainbows is good pet pony
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03:48 * Jackie nuzzles DashedRainbows
03:54 <Schism> Sayonara, Mother. o3o;
04:00 * Schism clears La-Mulana.
04:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: Autumn Blaze Music: Francis Vace - Silent (feat. PegasYs) [Ska Punk] [ http://tinyurl.com/yxuoxzp4 ]
04:01 <Schism> That was an odd seed. An entire part of the game just got skipped.
04:04 <Schism> Worked out alright, tho. o3o
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04:29 * Schism decides to splurge just a little bit. Picks up HOMM3, Planescape: Torment, Hollow Knight, Dungeon Keeper 2, and Stardew Valley (because he'd pirated it before).
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04:32 <Schism> Dungeon Keeper 2 seems like something worth spending time on tonight.
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04:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ConfusionRift
04:35 <ConfusionRift> Hello everypony.
04:36 <Schism> Ahoy.
04:37 <Ali> DK2, before EA ruined it
04:37 <Schism> Well, YES. The original Dungeon Keeper 2.
04:37 <Schism> The good one, which is $2.50 right now.
04:37 * ConfusionRift waves, then flops.
04:38 <ConfusionRift> Oh, and it's all good. I can either eat the double occurrence, which puts me right on the red line, or use whatever's left of my PPTO to cover for it.
04:38 <Schism> Honestly, playing DK2, or Magic Carpet, or Populous... those games are a spectaularly good choice for your buck.
04:38 <Schism> ConfusionRift, what?
04:39 <Schism> spectacularly*
04:39 * Ali snugs on ConfusionRift
04:39 <Ali> Schism, I ish broke pone. Can't really splurge on anything right now...or ever.
04:40 <Schism> It was a small splurge in my case. :< Though HOMM3 is worth it...
04:40 <Schism> Since I has a new job, well.
04:40 <ConfusionRift> Schism: The no call no show situation.
04:41 <Schism> ConfusionRift, oh. So you're not totally screwed over, just... hm. You'll be alright there.
04:41 * ConfusionRift nods.
04:42 * DashedRainbows licks ConfusionRift till he's dripping. I'm glad.
04:42 <Schism> That's at least a buffer as you try and find somewhere else.
04:42 * ConfusionRift pets DashedRainbows. :P
04:43 * Schism installs Dungeon Keeper 2, and asks that Ali maybe get Heroes of Might and Magic 3? o3o;
04:43 <Schism> HOMM3 is a turn-based strategy monstrosity.
04:44 * DashedRainbows sits by ConfusionRift and gives him a hoof
04:44 <Schism> Tho since I will be capable of funding, I can maybe get Ali a copy...
04:45 <Ali> I'm not good with turn based strat games
04:47 <Schism> It's much simpler than most. You get to field a set of small groups, instead of having to worry about a gigantic empire of 200 different field units.
04:49 * ConfusionRift huggles DashedRainbows.
04:49 * ConfusionRift huggles Ali as well. :P
04:49 * Ali shrugs and just hugs on Schism and ConfusionRift
04:49 <Schism> Of course, I'm also the sort of person who wants to play Worms: Armageddon against Ali.
04:50 * DashedRainbows glomps Ali
04:50 * Ali hugs DashedRainbows as well
04:51 <Schism> ConfusionRift, would you like to play a game of Hedgewars?
04:51 <ConfusionRift> Not at the moment. Am eating, sorry. :P
04:51 <Schism> Oh well. :3
04:52 * Schism boops Ali with a hedgehog?
04:56 <Schism> Ali: It's such a classic game...
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05:35 * ConfusionRift boops Schism.
05:36 * Schism counterboop!
05:37 <ConfusionRift> I was gonna maybe jump back to La-Mulana, but if you wanna play, I don't mind. Just finished up here. :P
05:38 <Schism> Well, before we go into that...
05:39 <Schism> May I suggest a fine music video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPdMkwLYL3w -- warning: profanity.
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05:46 <ConfusionRift> ...huh.
05:46 * ConfusionRift doesn't know how to feel.
05:47 <ConfusionRift> Technically speaking, this is great.
05:49 <Schism> Kinda disturbing, tho. o3o
05:49 <Schism> So, you know. Kinda like Pink Floyd's The Wall.
05:49 <ConfusionRift> Never really saw it.
05:50 <Schism> Like the album, it was a fever dream of animation.
05:53 <Schism> ConfusionRift, surely you've heard The Wall?
05:53 <ConfusionRift> Probably did, but don't remember.
05:54 <Schism> Check it out sometime, then. It's one of those albums I would declare, without qualm, as being 'a classic'.
05:54 <ConfusionRift> As for the album, I was listening to it recently.
05:54 <Schism> Oh! Nice then. o3o
06:02 <Schism> The animator, Sam Fennah, has a rather frightening little web series which I adore, because the characters are just that freakin' unique.
06:02 <ConfusionRift> I'm pretty sure I saw some of his work before.
06:03 <Schism> Almost certainly.
06:03 <ConfusionRift> His "main" character is very familiar.
06:03 <Schism> That would be Lucy Lacemaker, I take it?
06:04 <ConfusionRift> Also, after watching horror and gore movies from young, all this "scary and disturbing" stuff barely moves me. :P
06:04 <ConfusionRift> I find it interesting rather.
06:04 <Schism> I'm of the same type. The character designs are what draw me, instead. And those characters are _delightful._
06:05 <ConfusionRift> A for Lucy, yes. That would be it.
06:05 <Schism> You look at this and you can see the character design, from top to bottom. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8p-rt_2tgY
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06:08 <Schism> The characters are also adorable. :>
06:09 <ConfusionRift> This kinda reminds me of something.
06:09 <Schism> So, ConfusionRift, would you like to play a quick game of Hedgewars?
06:09 <Schism> Oh?
06:09 <ConfusionRift> I'm guessing you're probably gonna hold on BL3, huh.
06:10 <Schism> Eh? Oh, yeah. Not going to buy Borderlands 3 anytime soon.
06:11 <ConfusionRift> So you wouldn't mind somewhat of a spoiler?
06:11 <Schism> Oh, go right ahead.
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06:13 <ConfusionRift> Okay, so, there's a story mission that seems they decided to go the full 9 yards. One of the bigger sells is that they decided to put these two characters called Pain and Terror. That alone should tell you who they're referencing. :P
06:16 * Schism eyebrows.
06:16 <Schism> aaaaaaaugh. Going to get Horn of the Abyss going.
06:16 <ConfusionRift> In any case, they made this huge sacrificing machine called Carnivora. This huge machine (as anything made by bandits) is made of parts of machinery and such, put together with nuts, bolts, and sheet metal.
06:17 <ConfusionRift> Your objective is to go in and rescue... someone. As a deterrent, they decide to take the show on the road... as in the whole thing lifts and drives away.
06:19 <Schism> That doesn't exactly sell me on the game.
06:19 * ConfusionRift shurgs. "Wasn't the idea. Was just putting it out there."
06:20 <ConfusionRift> I thought it was one of the craziest mission I have encountered so far.
06:20 <Schism> Well, it both sounds crazy and also a perfect kind of BL2 mission.
06:20 <Schism> So, I mean, okay. o.o;
06:21 <ConfusionRift> Because you actually have to chase after it in your technical, trying to stop it in some way.
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06:22 <Schism> "It would be absolutely AWESOME to witness, but we kinda have to still be alive, so let's stop it."
06:22 <ConfusionRift> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Pkd6bXchYME/maxresdefault.jpg
06:23 <Schism> That ... thing at the bottom right, that's your gun.
06:24 <ConfusionRift> That's your runner. :P
06:24 <Schism> Yeeeah.
06:24 <Schism> Okay, okay. Shall we just do a Worms game? :P
06:24 <ConfusionRift> Oh sorry... you mean, not-Worms? :P
06:25 <Schism> That kind of monstrosity makes me want to just play a simple... yeah. :P
06:25 <ConfusionRift> Starting it...
06:26 <Schism> EQD Game, 12345 is the password.
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07:44 <Schism> Damn your eyes, ConfusionRift!
07:44 * ConfusionRift laughs histerically.
07:45 <Schism> That was silly. :3
07:46 <ConfusionRift> That was super silly.
07:46 <Schism> I tried to punch Rift into the sea, and failed -- and then he counterattacked and won.
07:46 <Schism> I was gonna use the ballgun again.
07:46 <ConfusionRift> I think that would have killed me, yeah. :P
07:47 <ConfusionRift> But that pit... just... how.
07:47 <ConfusionRift> Well, there it all went with a grenade. Time to- (bloop) Wait... OH, the hole! No way!
07:48 <ConfusionRift> I also didn't expect the hammer to work.
07:48 <Schism> Yeah. X3
07:48 <Schism> I do like the mobility thing. Infinite ropes and teleports and placement, as well as switching hogs 4 times in a round.
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07:49 <ConfusionRift> I prefer that over SPEEDRUM MODE.
07:49 <Schism> Yeah, let's not do "Pro Mode" ever again.
07:49 <ConfusionRift> That was way too much, and the hog placement sucked.
07:50 <Schism> Lack of any weapons meant that it had a feeling of 'no items, fox only, final destination'.
07:50 <Schism> Manual hog placement, I like. :3
07:51 <Schism> Especially when we get to move around with ropes as much as we can.
07:56 * ConfusionRift nods.
07:56 * Schism places a Lucy Lacemaker on ConfusionRift's head. o3o
07:57 <ConfusionRift> Aww, aren't you a cute thing. (pets it)
07:57 <Schism> Mind the teeth. o3o
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08:01 * Changeling_Nightmares meows at ConfusionRift for pet
08:01 * ConfusionRift pets Changeling_Nightmares. :P
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08:13 <Schism> ConfusionRift, your head's just a hat for your torso! o3o
08:15 <ConfusionRift> Well, it is... wait...
08:15 * ConfusionRift puts her back where she was.
08:16 <ConfusionRift> Sometimes, that gut feeling tells you something. And yeah, I know it doesn't matter. She can just make her way back if she feels like it. (she's gone) And now I'm really worried.
08:17 <Schism> "Surely, humans can't be that big of a threat to us, can they?" "...when did you last visit the city?"
08:23 *** Changeling_Nightmares is now known as Filly_Nightmares
08:24 * Filly_Nightmares kneads sc
08:24 * Filly_Nightmares kneads Schism!
08:29 * Schism boops the Filly_Nightmares!
08:29 * Filly_Nightmares eees and nomfs Schism hoof and tug!
08:35 <Finwe> o3o
08:35 <Finwe> Good forenoon, everypony!
08:36 <ConfusionRift> RAdm. Finwe. (salutes)
08:36 <Finwe> Lt Cdr ConfusionRift.
08:36 <Finwe> o7
08:36 <Finwe> Capt Koopz.
08:36 <Finwe> o7
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08:43 * Schism watches more of Satellite City. "O. kay. Okay."
08:46 <ConfusionRift> It starts getting crazy, huh.
08:47 <Schism> Little bit.
08:47 <Schism> #20 is a full episode and it's full of... well, it's a plot.
08:48 <ConfusionRift> Oh goodness... a mass randomized MC hunger games.
08:53 <ConfusionRift> Oh right... back to the chamber of darkness.
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08:54 <Schism> "We should just make it ourselves." "We TRIED that. Set half of London on fire." "Aha, that was great." "And a great deal of blackstrap rum if I do recall!" "HAH!"
08:54 <Schism> ConfusionRift, you've got the item from just outside the Chamber of Extinction...
08:54 <ConfusionRift> The mirror?
08:55 <Schism> Indeed.
08:55 <Schism> The Bronze Mirror provides you with a few new paths.
08:57 <ConfusionRift> Yeah, but... I don't know. Since I don't know, and I'm already stuck in the chamber, might as well check all the way.
08:57 <Schism> Well. You can certainly get to the Grail Point.
08:58 <Schism> Though Hecatonchaires is probably going to hurt.
09:01 <ConfusionRift> ...there's a looping room.
09:01 <Schism> Oh, yeah. Keep moving to the right, the Chamber of Extinction loops unpleasantly.
09:02 * ConfusionRift feels he's making a worse mistake, so he heads back... again.
09:02 <Schism> You've found the grail point then?
09:02 <ConfusionRift> If it's the one for the Chamber of Extinction, yes.
09:03 * Schism nods. "There are two zones where the Bronze Mirror has opened up new paths."
09:03 <Schism> No, wait. Three. Or something.
09:03 <Schism> Either way, you've got options.
09:03 * ConfusionRift goes back... to the beginning.
09:05 <ConfusionRift> Oh hello.
09:05 <Schism> Found something? :>
09:06 <ConfusionRift> Well, the one at the Gate of Guidance is out of reach.
09:06 <Schism> Aye, you've gotta get there from the other side.
09:06 <ConfusionRift> But I know where the mausoleum one is.
09:06 <ConfusionRift> Wait... hmmmmm.
09:06 <Schism> It's stupidly easy to access, too.
09:22 <ConfusionRift> It's from another gate, no?
09:24 <Schism> Not quite.
09:25 <Schism> The Twin Labyrinths do NOT have one of those paths. However, a few others do.
09:28 <ConfusionRift> The grave of the giants... I'm gonna hate this place.
09:29 <Schism> What, you don't LOVE to slip and slide around on ice?
09:29 <ConfusionRift> Oh yeah, I LOOOOVE it, especially with these stiff controls.
09:30 <Schism> Yeah, it's gonna be all kinds of fun. I suggest you also look into another location at which you've murdered a boss.
09:30 * ConfusionRift turned back for a second. He was about to yell murder.
09:32 <ConfusionRift> There's probably one at the Temple of the Sun. I know where the one at the gate and the mausoleum are.
09:32 <Schism> The Bronze Mirror basically just lets you open up paths in certain locations -- ONCE you've eliminated the boss of the zone.
09:32 <ConfusionRift> Need weights!!!
09:32 <Schism> It also creates those lovely red and blue spirits.
09:32 <Schism> Don't you love them already?
09:33 <Schism> Oh, yeah. Okay. This is NOT a puzzle item, but there's a coin chest at the waterfall. Hit the wall to the left of the waterfall itself on the highest part.
09:34 <ConfusionRift> Oh yeah...
09:34 <ConfusionRift> Hmm, waterfall.
09:34 <Schism> There's no hint for that and it's just a stupid little item that gives you 100ish coins.
09:34 <Schism> Surface.
09:35 <ConfusionRift> I know, was just thinking.
09:35 <Schism> Oh, aye.
09:36 <ConfusionRift> I hate the healing in this game so much.
09:37 <Schism> Agreed.
09:40 <Schism> My brain has latched onto a horrifying concept.
09:40 <Schism> Just Cause randomizer.
09:42 * ConfusionRift finds the grail point... and notices something.
09:43 <ConfusionRift> OF COURSE, I can't go back to this place.
09:43 <Schism> As things stand, yes.
09:43 <Schism> BUT you can save.
09:59 * ConfusionRift thinks he broke this puzzle.
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10:04 <Schism> Which one?
10:04 <Schism> Does it involve a block of ice falling down?
10:04 <ConfusionRift> There's this three block puzzle, that leads to a switch to activate this ice elevator.
10:05 <Schism> Oh. THAT elevator, you're looking in the wrong direction.
10:05 <Schism> I shan't say more.
10:06 <ConfusionRift> Got it done, but don't know if my solution was the right one. :P
10:06 <Schism> To get ice to move, you needed eyes. o3o
10:06 <ConfusionRift> Never mind.
10:06 <Schism> Yah, it's stupid.
10:07 <Schism> I take it you just saw a statue with an eye, and figured, "Boy, that looks interesting, let's whip it"?
10:08 <ConfusionRift> There's a table that says that its eyes aren't hollow. So... I whipped it!
10:08 <ConfusionRift> But I did that before the block puzzle.
10:08 <Schism> There you go. PUzzle solved without any need for braincells. o3o
10:09 * Filly_Nightmares noms Schism
10:09 <Schism> Meanwhile, here I am, looking at GOG and Dungeon Keeper 2, and really wishing I could put it into Windowed mode.
10:11 <ConfusionRift> The question was more towards the solution of the block puzzle, because I felt like I just winged it.
10:13 <Schism> Oh, which block puzzle?
10:15 <ConfusionRift> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TDLKiXsILCs/maxresdefault.jpg This one.
10:15 <ConfusionRift> By the way, that's just a Google search screenshot. I don't have that much health or the axe.
10:16 <Schism> Oh. No, you probably solved it properly.
10:17 <Schism> If your solution was 'cover up the damned laser', anyway.
10:17 <ConfusionRift> :P
10:18 <Schism> Oh, and you can indeed get the axe.
10:19 <Schism> And there is another path available.
10:23 <Schism> The axe is... ideally how you beat that damned fish.
10:25 <ConfusionRift> I moved the top block down, then finagled it to the side just enough for me to squeeze out, and still have room to push it back to the middle. Then pushed the side blocks down to the middle, with the top one being used to block the laser.
10:26 <ConfusionRift> It just feels like I needed an item for this.
10:26 <ConfusionRift> Oh, and got the shield.
10:27 <Schism> You overcomplicated it, but the whole puzzle is an exercise in overcomplication. You need merely push the bottom block to the left, then push the middle block to the left on top of that -- then push the top block over, and then move THAT to the left to block the laser.
10:28 <ConfusionRift> But how do I get to the top one?
10:28 <Schism> There's an item which you can obtain to get up there.
10:28 <ConfusionRift> Thank you. Now I know I missed something.
10:29 <Schism> You're not too far removed from the path.
10:30 <Schism> Once you understand how the Mirror works, you'll be on the right track.
10:31 * ConfusionRift can't continue, because he's out of weights.
10:31 <Schism> Ah. Okay, this one is not mentioned ANYWHERE, so I will tell you this.
10:31 <ConfusionRift> ...so dumb. Can't even save.
10:31 <Schism> There are four patterns of lights for the faeries.
10:32 <Schism> Also, if you save and quit, then restart, then the fairy points will respawn.
10:34 <Schism> One fairy will grant life. One fairy will grant death. One fairy will open the way. One fairy will provide wealth.
10:35 <Schism> Calling the appropriate fairy is quite helpful. o3o
10:36 <Schism> And you can break the summoning by moving off the screen.
10:36 <ConfusionRift> Of course game, how typical. After I did the exit of shame to get weights, you can't stop dropping them.
10:37 <Schism> Of course.
10:38 <ConfusionRift> Had 15, now got 22. And that's without the fairies help.
10:38 <ConfusionRift> Unfortunately, I had exited after the incident, so... good to know though.
10:39 <Schism> Well, you've got the idea. And you have a path open to you now...
10:45 <Schism> Okay, I'm going to get some sleep... so catch you around!
10:45 <ConfusionRift> Alrighty. Have a good one.
10:46 * Lumindia distributes cereal to everyone
10:46 <Lumindia> \o/
10:46 <ConfusionRift> Huzzah!
10:46 <Lumindia> just regular cheerios, tho
10:46 <Lumindia> I had honey nut cheerios before, but they made me a bit sick to my stomach
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10:55 <ConfusionRift> Oh... so it was the temple of the sun. Blarg.
11:04 <Lumindia> blargh!
11:41 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #1713 [ http://tinyurl.com/y5kcznsr ]
12:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Comics: Invitation / Mares Glamping / Past sins #15 / Pepperming #43 / TWD #36 / Apprentice #6 / Queen for One Less Day Rewrite [ http://tinyurl.com/y636by73 ]
12:11 * uni noses at Lumindia
12:12 * Lumindia noses back
12:17 <uni> heyo~
12:17 <uni> how's you?
12:19 <Lumindia> fairly good
12:19 <Lumindia> *wigglewiggle*(
12:19 <uni> yay!
12:20 <uni> haven't seen you for quite a bit
12:20 * uni wigglewiggles along~
12:24 *** Joins: Changeling_Nightmares (Surreal@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone)
12:26 <Cepheid> How goes the ruins exploration, ConfusionRift?
12:26 <ConfusionRift> AaaaAAAaaaaAAAaaaah!
12:26 <ConfusionRift> Oh sorry, hallo. :P
12:27 *** Quits: Filly_Nightmares (Surreal@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
12:28 <ConfusionRift> Barely figured what the mirror actually did, so I was going through the side B of some places. Got the shield and the axe... oh, and bought the new laptop.
12:28 <ConfusionRift> In other words, cooked the fish.
12:33 *** Quits: RyuImperator (RyuImperato@Pony-u9qb4t.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
12:34 <ConfusionRift> Now, to figure the rest... later. Going to crash in a bit.
12:39 * ConfusionRift booples Cepheid.
12:39 <ConfusionRift> Bats. :P
12:40 <Cepheid> Goddamn Bats.
12:40 <ConfusionRift> Bats 2.0 suck so much. And I know they're gonna eb everywhere in the new areas.
13:11 *** Surreal_Nightmares is now known as Filly_Nightmares
13:11 * Filly_Nightmares uses Lumindia as a bed and Butter uni as a plushie and curls up around him
13:11 * Filly_Nightmares is cold floofy
13:12 *** Quits: Changeling_Nightmares (Surreal@Cutest.Floofy.Changeling.Batpone) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
13:14 *** Quits: FruitNibbler (Eogan@Pony-5ftrdn.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
13:16 * ConfusionRift flops to sleep.
13:17 *** Quits: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-v9a.6pu.237.104.IP) (Quit: Recharging the batteries. Laters! *shutdown*)
13:23 * Filly_Nightmares goes sleepies!
13:23 *** Filly_Nightmares is now known as Sleeping_Nightmares
13:49 * Cepheid hmms over some factorio stuff.
13:56 <Cepheid> 'Kay Internet, please don't *YAY* out on me here.
13:58 <Cepheid> Hum. So pumps move 100 fluid/tick. That means at 60 ticks/sec, 6000 fluid/sec.
14:04 <Cepheid> Man, fluid dynamics in Factorio are *WEIRD*
14:09 <Cepheid> You place two tanks. Fill one to capacity, then connect the tanks by pipes. You expect it to balance between the two tanks, with the pipes filled to capacity, right?
14:11 <Cepheid> Unfortunately, this isn't how it works. The tanks will balance, yes. But the pipes themselves will only partially be filled to capacity.
14:12 <Cepheid> So for example, I have two tanks set up, one filled to capacity with oil. 25000 units. I create another tank, empty. I place a pipe connecting the two.
14:13 <Cepheid> The tanks are at 12,###, I use ### because the game does not like to show exact numbers after a point. The pipe, which has a maximum capacity of 100? It's at 49.8
14:16 * Cepheid uses a prebuilt display to show capacities in full five digits. o3o
14:34 <Cepheid> I wish there was a way to control the speed at which stuff crafted in assemblers.
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14:55 <Razor> Cepheid, I think a pipe won't update if the fluid value is close enough?
14:56 <Razor> Anyhow, I'm off to sleep; got another 12-hour shift tomorrow.
14:57 <Cepheid> Yeah, I'm just saying that it works in a funky manner.
14:57 <Cepheid> If left to flow by itself, it just balances out equally across the entire system.
14:57 <Cepheid> So even if a pipe can handle 100, if the input and output tanks balance out to 50%, the pipes will only have 50%.
14:57 <Razor> Almost equally. All the piping will be off by the smallest sliver.
14:57 <Cepheid> Yeah, but close enough for my point.
14:58 <Cepheid> This basically means the percentage isn't capacity. It's pressure.
14:58 <Razor> I think it's both capacity and pressure at the same time for some reason.
14:59 <Razor> Still; I gotta sleep. I'll see you later Ceph.
15:00 <Cepheid> G'night.
15:01 *** Quits: Razor (RazorSharpF@Pony-729ah9.tpgi.com.au) (Connection closed)
15:02 * Cepheid sets gamespeed to 500. Sees his UPS tops out at 17,000.
15:03 <Cepheid> Ironically I think it's limited by the FPS of the game.
15:05 <Cepheid> Heh, yeah, it's limited by FPS.
15:05 <Cepheid> If I turn off vsync and do 120Hz, I'm limited to ~4500 or so. If I turn it back on, 60 FPS, I'm limited to approximately 16666.67
15:06 <Cepheid> The longer the period between frames, the greater number of updates that can apparently happen, up to a limit.
15:09 *** Joins: Ali (Ali@Pony-ltrlcq.4nua.5fca.1702.2600.IP)
15:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Ali Ali
15:10 <Cepheid> Ali, my apologies last night for snipping at you.
15:11 * Ali nods, and thanks for the apology
15:11 <Cepheid> I figured out what's going on with the washing, why the water and such keeps backing up.
15:11 *** Joins: Pinmane (Pinmane@Pony-vdcche.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
15:12 <Cepheid> There is, however, a way to fix it. However, the design has to be modified *JUST* a bit.
15:12 <Ali> Does it interfere with the core layout or just the piping?
15:14 <Cepheid> Mix of both. Not too serious on the core layout modification though. More removal of a few washers and spreading them out a bit.
15:15 <Cepheid> So, basically what's happening, is that the game's fluid dynamics are funky.
15:17 <Ali> They keep talking about that in the FFF
15:17 <Cepheid> The dynamics are such that the pipes essentially try to balance out the pressure/capacity across the entire pipeline.
15:18 <Cepheid> So the end result is that you could have 100 fluid buildup and being pushed out at one end, and only 20 or so at the other end, depending on the distance.
15:18 <Cepheid> But that 100 fluid won't immediately move along the pipe.
15:18 <Cepheid> It sits there until the algorithm slowly starts balancing out what's at the head of that 100-fluid section.
15:19 <Cepheid> There's a way around it though.
15:19 <Cepheid> Pumps pull fluid and push it out. Of course, the problem remains in a weird funky way. But again, can be solved.
15:19 <Ali> I figured pumps would be the answer
15:20 <Ali> That or one way pipes but if there's no 'flow' then that doesn't help the problem
15:20 <Cepheid> For 12 washers, we need to place pumps every 2 pipes in order to get the dirty water to the purifiers.
15:20 <Cepheid> Any more than 12, and the system backs up.
15:20 <Cepheid> But fortunately, the devs did something that makes this a bit less painful.
15:20 <Cepheid> Underground pipes count as two pipes, regardless of distance.
15:21 <Ali> So underground/pump/underground?
15:22 <Cepheid> Yes.
15:22 <Ali> Now here's the other question
15:22 <Ali> Cause most of the ore/bar process backs up at washing.
15:23 <Ali> And if 12 is the limit, you need two stations then
15:23 <Ali> And thats EACH segement
15:23 <Ali> There's 4 areas, each able to handle 2 blocks of washers of that size
15:23 <Cepheid> Don't worry about it backing up?
15:24 <Ali> Not worrying about it backing up in a way
15:24 <Cepheid> But yes, there is that.
15:24 <Ali> Its just how to make a washing plant that can handle that
15:24 <Cepheid> We'd have to expand it such that each ore gets 2 12-washer sections.
15:24 <Cepheid> But with bots, that should be easy. Especially as ADra automated them.
15:24 <Ali> Thankfully I left some space for that
15:24 <Cepheid> If there's not enough space, we can make some.
15:25 <Cepheid> I'll help with the upgrade, but I'm gonna figure out a good pattern first.
15:25 <Cepheid> Your pattern's not bad by any stretch. Just want to clean it up a bit so moving between the washers and such is easier.
15:25 <Ali> I didn't think the washing would be such a pain though
15:26 <Cepheid> The biggest issue is just that each washing station needs to have it's own pipe for dirty water and regular water feeding it.
15:26 <Cepheid> Don't daisy-chain them.
15:26 <Ali> Again didn't know the fluid issue
15:27 <Cepheid> Neither did I.
15:27 <Cepheid> I only just read the wiki and experimented today. I knew part of it was the way fluid dynamics worked last night.
15:27 <Ali> I knew a flow issue
15:27 <Cepheid> I don't think ADra was familiar with it either.
15:27 <Ali> But I thought something like one way pipes would solve it or something
15:28 <Ali> Cause I thought it would reverse flow back to an area to just build up
15:29 <Cepheid> Yeah, I was expecting that, myself.
15:29 <Cepheid> But the game doesn't model fluids very well.
15:29 <Cepheid> So it doesn't build up in an expected manner.
15:29 <Cepheid> For example, place two tanks next to one another, separated by one space. Fill one to capacity, cut off the source.
15:29 <Cepheid> So, we have one tank, full, and one tank, empty.
15:29 <Cepheid> Place a pipe between it. What would you expect to happen?
15:29 <Ali> To balance out?
15:30 <Ali> I mean, IRL pipes, it depends on where the height of the pipe is placed
15:30 <Cepheid> Two tanks would have half, and the pipe would be full, right?
15:30 <Cepheid> Assume the pipe is placed at the bottom.
15:30 <Ali> If it was at the bottom, it would drain out and then the left tank would have less water
15:31 <Ali> But it balances them out and zero water is in the pipe?
15:31 <Cepheid> The pipe connects the two tanks at the bottom.
15:31 <Cepheid> So what should happen in reality is that the two tanks will balance out, and the pipe would be full.
15:32 <Cepheid> What happens in Factorio? The two tanks balance out, but the pipe isn't full.
15:32 <Cepheid> The pipe sits at slightly less than half capacity.
15:32 <Ali> Snerk
15:33 <Cepheid> The game balances out the tanks and pipes by percentage.
15:33 <Ali> So cause the tanks sit at 50%
15:33 <Cepheid> That is, it's more accurate to say that pipes are at half max-pressure, while the tanks are at half capacity.
15:33 <Ali> That makes the pipe sit at 50%?
15:33 <Cepheid> Yes.
15:33 <Cepheid> There's a disconnect between capacity and pressure.
15:33 <Cepheid> And it gets worse.
15:34 <Cepheid> If you add multiple pipe segments, say, enough such that when balanced out, there's 1/4th in one tank, and 1/4th in another tank..
15:34 <Cepheid> The pipes all will have 1/4th.
15:34 <Cepheid> So at any given moment, a fraction of 1/4th will move across the whole pipeline.
15:34 <Ali> And this is where the issue leads
15:34 <Cepheid> Yes.
15:34 <Ali> Cause like the washers
15:34 <Ali> They demand a lot of water, I think 100 a cycle?
15:35 <Ali> Ok, not a lot
15:35 <Cepheid> 100 water a cycle.
15:35 <Cepheid> But they produce 400 dirty water a cycle.
15:35 <Ali> But given that instead of having 100 water sitting in the input
15:35 <Ali> and there's only 25 water
15:35 <Cepheid> And only so much fluid moves between each pipe second each "tick" of the game world.
15:35 <Ali> It takes them 4 seconds to fire up
15:35 <Cepheid> Yes.
15:35 <Ali> And the longer said pipeline is
15:35 <Ali> The slower they go cause of the flow
15:35 <Cepheid> Even if the tank itself has something like 6,250 in it, the pipeline will only ever provide a maximum of 25 fluid/sec.
15:36 <Cepheid> And even without pumps, because of the amount of fluid that moves between segments, it's possible that even if you had a 25000 fluid tank filled to capacity, the other end of a pipeline may still sit at like, 12.5
15:36 <Ali> Or even zero
15:36 <Cepheid> It's a problem with determinism and optimization, effectively.
15:37 <Cepheid> Suppose you have 3 pipes in sequence, the first two are filled to capacity.
15:37 <Ali> So basically if you don't have something to 'push' the water along the path, it just doesn't work.
15:37 <Cepheid> Now, a single CPU works entirely in sequence.
15:38 <Cepheid> It updates the first pipe. Oh, the output's full, can't move fluid. So it's done with that. The next segment is updated. Oh, the pipe ahead of me is fine, let's move some fluid!
15:38 <Cepheid> Next segment. "Oh, no space ahead of me, so I can't move anything. I'm done."
15:38 <Cepheid> Thus, we now have one pipe at full capacity, and two at half capacity, after one game update.
15:39 <Cepheid> When in theory, it should have spread out and they'd have something like, 66.667 units of fluid in them each.
15:39 <Cepheid> Quantum computing in theory could probably solve this. But that's a ways away.
15:40 <Cepheid> There's other ways to solve the issue as well, but they're not very efficient and would slow the game down a lot.
15:40 <Ali> Is it just an issue of too much computer demand or what to fix it?
15:42 <Cepheid> Something like that.
15:43 <Cepheid> I could come up with a few solutions, but I cannot explain why they'd be bad, in simple terms. Er, no offense meant. Just they tell me constantly "consider your audience" and I'd like to keep it from being too technical.
15:43 <Cepheid> Long story short, it's computationally unfeasible.
15:43 <Cepheid> On a small scale, it'd be fine. On a scale like Factorio? Yeah, right.
15:46 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
15:49 <Cepheid> Just a heads up, while I like your two-lane design, I'm switching from it for readability purposes.
15:50 <Ali> Not my fault they make the ores and stuff look so dang similar :P
15:52 <Cepheid> Not that, more readability in terms of all the piping and such.
15:54 <Cepheid> Hum.
15:54 <Cepheid> 3000 dirty water a second. For testing this design, I'll have to be able to process 3000/sec.
15:55 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
15:55 <Cepheid> ... So literally a 1:1 ratio between washers and purifiers.
15:55 <ADragonDreaming> eh?
15:55 <ADragonDreaming> filtration plants are a 4:1 ratio I though
15:56 <ADragonDreaming> using 400 dirty water per cycle while washer's produce 100 dirty water per cycle
15:57 <Cepheid> I'm sending out 3000/sec, I need to process 3000/sec.
15:58 <Cepheid> Figuring out a new system, since fluid dynamics is what's screwing us over.
15:58 <Cepheid> And I figured *THAT* out partially.
16:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: Show Song Remix: Daniel Ingram - Being Big is All It Takes (Skelter Remix) [Drumstep] [ http://tinyurl.com/y3pznq33 ]
16:03 <Cepheid> Oh gods.
16:03 <Cepheid> I miscalculated the amount of water produced.
16:03 <Cepheid> You're right, ADragonDreaming.
16:03 <Cepheid> I thought it was 400/sec, it's 100/sec.
16:03 <Cepheid> That means with this setup, we can handle a total of 30 washers/line.
16:04 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
16:06 <Cepheid> Ali, that means your concerns about size is less of an issue. o3o
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16:10 <Cepheid> 30 of the danged things only takes 8 purifiers to keep fed.
16:15 <Ali> My god what did you guys do to piss the bugs off?
16:15 <Cepheid> No idea.
16:15 <Cepheid> They attacking a lot?
16:16 <ADragonDreaming> It stinks and they don't like it.
16:16 <Ali> A ton from the north
16:16 <ADragonDreaming> there's a bunch of spawners out there and the stink is reaching them
16:16 <Ali> 12 bases in stink
16:20 <Cepheid> I'll handle it.
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17:01 * ADragonDreaming sees a setup that compacts crushing, washing, powdering, and smelting into a single area.
17:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: My Little Pony Anniversary - 9th Season of Pony Stream [ http://tinyurl.com/y2d5aqwd ]
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17:34 <ADragonDreaming> my internet is being stupid today, so server play doesn't seem to be in the cards.
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18:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff Special - Galarian Ponyta Appreciation! [ http://tinyurl.com/y6hwglva ]
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18:48 <Schism> "Oh good, one weight, run confirmed."
18:48 *** Crimson_Ta1l is now known as Crimson_Tail
18:49 * Schism watches DeceasedCrab lose his only chakram very quickly indeed.
19:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Silver Quill: "The Big Mac Question": Episode Followup [ http://tinyurl.com/yxnutoxr ]
19:01 <Schism> "We could go to the Gate of Illusion RIGHT NOW."
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19:37 <Schism> https://twitter.com/AniManga21/status/1179450676868313088 - Seems legit.
19:39 <Cepheid> So, we enclosed a bunch more space ADragonDreaming, especially since the bus was approaching the northern wall.
19:52 <ADragonDreaming> nice
19:58 <ADragonDreaming> I've been playing Sekiro. Fromsoft game.
19:58 <ADragonDreaming> As expected ... skill checks all over the place.
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20:07 <Cepheid> Myself, I'd like to play Code Vein. Broke for the moment though.
20:19 <Cepheid> Though at the moment, I kind of just want to lay down quietly and read.
20:20 <Cepheid> I feel like I've been working non-stop for the last week and it's taking a toll on me.
20:22 <Schism> This seems relevant. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAP35DLU8AAfnFA?format=jpg&name=900x900
20:23 <Cepheid> Heh.
20:23 <Cepheid> I'm a late bird.
20:23 <Cepheid> Prefer waking up around 10AM-12PM, but alas NO ONE WORKS THAT TIME.
20:28 <Cepheid> You know what I absolutely hate? People screaming and freaking out, not saying why other than to hurry up, only to find it was a [REDACTED] spider. I legitimately thought something was seriously wrong with Tizzy because just prior to the outburst my mother was talking to Tizzy.
20:30 <Schism> When a spider appears before me, I'll usually react with a string of unassociated consonants, followed by shooing it out. (Or smishing it.) Shrieking is definitely overboard.
20:31 <Cepheid> I prefer to let spiders live. Benefits outweigh the cons.
20:31 * Schism nodnods.
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21:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Penny Wrights: Equestria Girls Follow-Up: Rollercoaster of Friendship [ http://tinyurl.com/y4k4aga5 ]
21:05 * Ali yawns and flops over Schism
21:12 *** Ali is now known as Ali|Nap
21:27 * Schism yawns. Also, offers Cepheid a spicy burger from a greasy spoon diner.
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21:51 <Schism> Hah! Jagmeet Singh, of the NDP, was confronted by a man who said he should 'cut his turban off, so he would look like a Canadian'. Singh countered, "I think Canadians look like all sorts of people." The protester replied, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do," and Singh responded with, "Hey, but this is Canada, you can do whatever you like."
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22:01 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: S7 Finale Music: Suskii - Summon The Shadows [Metal] [ http://tinyurl.com/y3e65uoj ]
22:17 <Schism> It occurs to me that there is a Mega Man Maker, so I should at some point put together a level or two for Ali to cry over.
22:31 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Silver Quill: "The Big Mac Question": Episode Followup [ http://tinyurl.com/yxnutoxr ]
22:31 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Penny Wrights: Equestria Girls Follow-Up: Rollercoaster of Friendship [ http://tinyurl.com/y4k4aga5 ]
22:31 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff Special - Galarian Ponyta Art Gallery! [ http://tinyurl.com/y6hwglva ]
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23:11 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Fanfic Updates - October 6th [ http://tinyurl.com/yxabzxxu ]
23:16 *** Joins: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net)
23:24 <Schism> Cepheid: You may want to look into this Megaman Maker too. It's pretty decent.
23:26 * Schism lokoks up and sees a spider dangling down. "Um. Hello there."
23:26 <Schism> Oh. Not a spider, just a bit of dust.
23:34 <ADragonDreaming> But in actuality, it was a spider.
23:35 <Schism> A rare dust spider, a creature which nestles in furrows of accumulated detritus and makes its nests there, which leaps out and makes prey of dust bunnies.
23:37 * PinkieShy puts hoof on Schism
23:37 * Schism vibrates slightly.
23:41 *** Joins: Taoki (MirceaKitsu@Pony-7ul.gjo.113.93.IP)
23:41 * Schism also offers Taoki a delicious rabbit.
23:42 <Taoki> Heh. The irony xD
23:43 * Schism looks innocent. "Whyso?"
23:44 *** Ali|Nap is now known as Ali
23:44 * Schism also offers Ali a painful Megamaker level.
23:45 <Ali> I don't do megamaker
23:45 <Schism> Probably for the best.
23:45 <Taoki> 1 = I'm a fox furry (kind of), 2 = I love vore (though as prey but it was still a funny coincidence)
23:45 <Ali> Its probably mario maker with 10 bajillion spikes everywhere
23:45 <Ali> And since megaman can't touch said spikes without dying
23:46 <Ali> And there's no power that lets him touch spikes
23:46 <Schism> Actually, most of the levels are sane, I'm given to understand.
23:46 *** Quits: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
23:46 <Schism> Taoki: I may or may not have mentioned that I also know Alynna.
23:46 <Taoki> Ohhh! Didn't know that :)
23:47 <Taoki> I know she's more kitsune but also somewhat pony IIRC
23:47 <Schism> Tis the strangest thing, meeting folks who know folks.
23:47 <Taoki> It's fun when it happens. The internet can be a small place sometimes.
23:47 <Schism> Tis. Cepheid, I met from a different fandom some years ago... and yea. ^^;
23:48 <Schism> So, whee. Furry fandom and weirdness.
23:48 * Ali flops over Schism, unicorn doesn't know anyone!
23:49 <Schism> Ali: Well, you know us!
23:49 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
23:49 * Schism puts a Sleeping_Nightmares on Ali's head.
23:49 <Ali> Yes but what I mean is outside of the fandom
23:50 *** Ali changes topic to 'Welcome to #EquestriaDaily! This channel is rated All Ages | Guide and rules: http://derpy.me/EqDRules S9E23 is allowed for discussion.[Unaired US episodes are also disallowed for discussion.]'
23:50 <PinkieShy> O.o
23:50 <Schism> Criminy. We're almost done with MLP Gen4...
23:50 <PinkieShy> I didn't see the episode yesterday :(
23:50 <PinkieShy> I was at family get together :P
23:50 <Ali> Technically
23:51 * PinkieShy puts a pinkie pie doing the gangnam style dance in the middle of the room
23:51 <Ali> S10 got confirmed, but its only in comic form
23:51 * Schism also has spent time as a vulpine, for sake of edifying Taoki.
23:51 * Sleeping_Nightmares meows at Schism
23:51 *** Sleeping_Nightmares is now known as Filly_Nightmares
23:51 * Ali confuzzles on Schism
23:51 * Schism provides Filly_Nightmares wif fried mac 'n' cheese!
23:51 * Schism also boops Ali with a slice of pineapple pizza.
23:52 * Filly_Nightmares meows at Schism for feed!
23:52 <Ali> Sorry Schism already had pizza
23:52 <PinkieShy> Ali I wonder if they'll make one last movie..
23:52 <Ali> Who knows
23:52 * Schism siiiighs, and provides Filly_Nightmares wif wuvving fuzzles.
23:52 <PinkieShy> I mean if I was hasbro i would put S10 the comic form only summarized up into a movie..
23:53 <Schism> It'd be nice if they wrap up G4 with something spectacular. Like the end of the world.
23:53 <Taoki> Awh. Hehe!
23:53 <Ali> Schism, the final 3 episodes are all tied to the ending
23:54 * Schism nodnods, "But will it be spectacular ENOUGH?"
23:54 <PinkieShy> I think the s9 ending was spoiled for me..
23:54 <Schism> Anyway, let us avoid spoilers, yesh. o3o;
23:54 <Ali> Yeah, no S9 spoils
23:55 <PinkieShy> Trust me, After YT spoiled it all.. I wouldn't spoil it at all to no pony.
23:56 * PinkieShy puts paws on Ali
23:56 <Schism> I have a meeting with my placement advisor tomorrow...
23:56 <Schism> Which is to say, the pre-job interview.
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