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00:06 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Comic: The Lost Sun 22 / BoE 8:7 / New Beginnings 20 / Sketches [ http://tinyurl.com/ydd3l6y4 ]
00:57 *** Ali|Nap is now known as Ali
01:09 *** Joins: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net)
01:10 * Ali huggles on the PinkieShy
01:11 <PinkieShy> Tried Ramen today >_> First time ever
01:11 <PinkieShy> I feel full right now..
01:11 <PinkieShy> Along with other things.. But they were.. Alright..
01:11 * PinkieShy hugs Ali
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01:12 <Ali> Ramen can be a hit or miss item
01:14 <PinkieShy> I feel sleepy now honestly and wanna just lay down but, Probably just being full :P
01:14 <Ali> Welcome to Ramen
01:16 <PinkieShy> Ali so it does this to most everyone? :P
01:16 * PinkieShy hands Ali a Butterfinger
01:16 <Ali> Not always, just store bought ones are filling
01:16 <Ali> Though I never feel like I get mine right
01:17 <Ali> The 'sauce' packet' never mixes in well nor thickens up so its like left in a giant pile of water.
01:20 <PinkieShy> One i had was the Maruchan instant lunch Chicken flavor
01:22 <Schism> For, well, your average packet of ramen, I'll usually add some cheese.
01:22 <Schism> Strange as it is, it works.
01:27 <PinkieShy> Schism they didn't really have any taste to them at first to me.. But after like 4 more bites into.. They had a bit of chicken noodle soup taste to them
01:28 <Schism> That is the basic idea of a ramen packet. Also, you usually want to drain off most of the water BEFORE you add the seasoning.
01:32 <PinkieShy> It was the instant lunch so.. there was no packet it was already together and such I'm guessing
01:33 <PinkieShy> All I got was a $0.37 cup that said add boiling water and wait 3 minutes
01:34 <Schism> Ah, the cheapest of cheap ramen. Well, that's okay. At the very least it will fill you up for a few minutes.
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01:46 *** Joins: ADragonDreaming (IceChat9@Pony-tpdjag.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
01:53 * PrincessRainbows boops Ali and sits on her. Yay, pony ride!
01:54 * Ali carries PrincessRainbows around but wants snuggles too.
01:54 * PrincessRainbows hugs Ali and curls up under her
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02:06 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Discussion #2142 [ http://tinyurl.com/y7wk7eqj ]
02:57 <PinkieShy> Took the car today.
02:58 <PinkieShy> They made it right, They changed both filters completely free.
02:58 <PinkieShy> I feel bad for one other person there though.
02:58 <PinkieShy> He said that they scammed him out of $1,200 and he has been there 2 hours..
03:01 <PinkieShy> Well i mean that much money before, But he was there for a oil change in his car.
03:01 <PinkieShy> So 2 hours for an oil change that sounds umm.. O.o
03:20 * Filly_Nightmares pants at da heat
03:20 <Ali> But I thought Filly_Nightmares only knew cold mode?
03:21 * Filly_Nightmares meows at Ali and mewls for cold!
03:35 * Ali puts Filly_Nightmares next to AC unit
03:35 * Filly_Nightmares eees and pushes her face into the vent!
03:37 <Schism> http://player.listenlive.co/44461 ... well. This is something...
03:37 *** Quits: jimm (horse@Pony-fr7.dqo.55.45.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
03:39 * Ali sits on Schism. "What yous means?"
03:40 <Schism> Ali: Musical theater. Run that link!
03:41 * Angeline pounces Ali
03:41 * Ali squeaks at Angeline
03:42 <Schism> o/` Got no mansion, got no yacht, still I'm happy with what I got...
03:46 <Schism> Gotta love Annie Get Your Gun.
03:50 <PinkieShy> I thought for a second you were quoting The weight by the band.
03:51 <Schism> PinkieShy! WRR101 should be your sort of thing. o3o
03:52 <Schism> It also does a Sunday mass over radio.
04:01 <Cepheid> Gigantic sky-scraper demon versus a drunk idiot controlling Doomguy. Who wina?
04:01 <Cepheid> Wins*
04:01 <Ali> The darkness
04:01 <Schism> Okay. Bad movies with great soundtracks: I've gotta listen to THIS one.
04:02 <Cepheid> Finished DOOM Eternal. Fun. Next game on the list appears to be... Assassin's Creed Odyssey
04:05 <Cepheid> My mother was shocked at how well I played despite being drunk. I'm not sure if I should be ashamed or prideful.
04:07 <Schism> Eh, muscle memory.
04:07 <Cepheid> https://i.imgur.com/rCPNy7e.gifv
04:08 <Schism> Cepheid, check out that link from above.
04:08 <Cepheid> To be honest I ate so much and had so much water in me that the alcohol barely affected me.
04:08 <Schism> Great songs from bad movies.
04:08 * Schism shrugs, "It's probably your best run of a new game."
04:09 <Cepheid> That music sounds familiar.
04:09 <Schism> I should think so.
04:09 <Schism> Star Wars, Episode 1.
04:09 <Cepheid> Ah.
04:10 <Schism> Bad movie, great score. o3o
04:11 <Cepheid> I was never really a fan of the Star Wars movies in any case.
04:11 <Schism> Now this sounds familiar...
04:12 <Schism> Do you recognize this one, Cepheid?
04:12 <Cepheid> Stopped listening.
04:12 <Schism> Oh, okay, then.
04:12 <Schism> You might like this tho.
04:12 <Cepheid> Can't say I- oh there it is.
04:13 <Cepheid> Pirates of the Caribbean.
04:13 <Schism> But one of the later ones, yea.
04:14 <Schism> You might as well keep listening. o3o I'm tempted to wonder if a video game song is going to come up at some point.
04:15 <Schism> Besides, good songs. o5o
04:16 * Schism places a skull hat on Filly_Nightmares! Issa tricorn wif an eyepatch.
04:17 <Cepheid> Technically one has. Pirates of the Caribbean is in the Kingdom Hearts series.
04:18 <Schism> Yea. XD;
04:18 <Schism> This one might be to your taste, then.
04:19 <Schism> I have a thing for introducing people to new music. <.<;
04:20 <Cepheid> Don't recognize it.
04:20 <Schism> It was introduced, but I forget what movie it's from. The announcer will repeat the source again. I do like the building and layering.
04:21 <Schism> This one's a movie everyone forgets.
04:23 <Schism> If nothing else, this is an excellent source of ideas.
04:24 <Schism> Lady in the Water, aha.
04:24 <Cepheid> Heh.
04:24 <Schism> What the he--this is familiar to me.
04:24 <Schism> No, this can't possibly be.
04:24 <Schism> This can't be Battlefield Earth.
04:25 <Schism> It's surely not.
04:26 <Schism> Thankfully, that's not the case. I hope.
04:27 <Schism> Anyone know this tune?
04:28 <Schism> ...!
04:28 <Schism> Batman & Robin. ... okay.
04:28 * Schism quietly buries his forehead in his desk.
04:30 <Schism> I should know this one. Is it Wing Commander?
04:30 <Schism> I know this song. Damnit!
04:31 <Ali> I love forcing a rule in the racing series everyone hates
04:32 <Ali> Points for all drivers, 8 teams hated the idea, one team loved it
04:32 <Ali> Rule passed
04:32 * Ali MIGHT of had a ton of votes in that >.>
04:32 <Schism> Auuugh, Supergirl. I should've known.
04:33 <Schism> The trumpets kinda make it obvious...
04:38 <Schism> I know THIS one.
04:42 <PinkieShy> I was bit by a vampire last night in game! :D
04:42 <PinkieShy> Its not a good thing but fun either way.
04:43 <Ali> You could say PinkieShy that it....
04:43 * Ali sunglasses
04:43 <Ali> Sucks to be you~
04:43 <Schism> PinkieShy, there's a mass via radio on WRR101 tomorrow. I don't know if it'll be to your taste, but you might want to tune in just for the sake of it.
04:43 <PinkieShy> I don't die the night i was bit in game, But i do next night.
04:43 <Schism> Just like normal radio mass.
04:43 <PinkieShy> Okay :3
04:45 <Schism> Here's the link. http://player.listenlive.co/44461 -- the Baptist is at 8:30A CST, a Methodist at 9:30, and then there's a Presbyterian at 11:00 AM.
04:46 <Schism> At least, according to this: http://www.wrr101.com/programs/
04:47 <Schism> I might not be religious myself, but I definitely hope you can find some way to express your faith with all that's going on.
04:51 <Schism> (An ye harm none, do what thou wilt. And if you help someone, more power to you.)
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05:02 <Schism> PinkieShy, I think there might be many paths towards a central truth. So please don't feel that worried when I say that I'm Discordian, or that I'm at odds with some aspect of your faith. I might be wrong, or we might be misreading an aspect of Scripture (as it says), or maybe I'm just approaching it from a different angle entirely. I'm a weirdo, and anyway, all four of the primary prophets remember the story in their own ways.
05:04 <Schism> I'm currently accepting of a lot of little-t truths, and I might not be in the future, but that's not to say you're wrong. But remember that we all look at reality from our own perspective, and not a one of us can see the real Truth for what it is.
05:04 <Schism> We all laugh at the shadows of Plato's cave.
05:23 <Schism> Now I sleep, but remember that the end result of a sultan is the noose.
05:39 *** Quits: Stormspark (stormspark@Pony-25m.dcd.98.172.IP) (Quit: Leaving)
05:43 <Schism> Oh for the love of Finagle!
05:44 *** Quits: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-u30cht.dynamic.sonic.net) (Connection closed)
05:45 * Ali licks Schism just cause
05:46 <Schism> Ali: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15sSbbHl8hE
05:56 <Schism> "Initate program: Concrete Jungle." "No way, you cannot run Stands." "No, but I can worry you until it doesn't matter. Activate."
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06:03 *** Quits: Velvet (Velvet@Pony-k9vam2.res.rr.com) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
06:12 *** Joins: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-boo.irn.56.193.IP)
06:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ConfusionRift
06:12 <ConfusionRift> Hello everypony.
06:18 *** Quits: Angeline (Scootaloo@I.Will.Fly.Higher) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
06:31 * Ali flops over ConfusionRift
06:40 * ConfusionRift patpats Ali a bit late.
06:40 * Ali leans into the ConfusionRift pets
06:54 *** Quits: Pony|13326 (Pony13326@Pony-i454b4.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
06:56 * PrincessRainbows curiously boops Ali and ConfusionRift
06:56 * Ali brushies the PrincessRainbows softly
06:57 * ConfusionRift lightly pats PrincessRainbows.
06:58 * PrincessRainbows makes grabby hooves at ConfusionRift
07:01 * ConfusionRift grabbies PrincessRainbows and pets. :P
07:02 * PrincessRainbows yays and boops Ali's horn. Sleepy time?
07:04 <Ali> But I'm not sleepy?
07:05 * PrincessRainbows still takes Ali as a plushie and goes sleepy. Nini
07:09 * ConfusionRift boops Ali with a plushie that looks like her. "You're becoming popular." :P
07:10 <Ali> How? I'm not a popular pony
07:11 <ConfusionRift> But... but... PLUSHIIIEEEEE! (looks at it closely) Wait, this is a color swapped Twilight. I was LIED to!
07:12 * Ali puffycheeks
07:12 <ConfusionRift> :p
07:14 <Ali> I never got to rework her. Cause when I made her that's ALL that was available
07:14 <Ali> I'm not popular enough to have a redesigned pony to not make her look like that.
07:14 <ConfusionRift> Better than the plush of me. (points at it, looks like a monochrome Soarin without wings)
07:15 <ConfusionRift> I was kidding, by the by. :P I haven't really done much with mine... much less with the other two.
07:21 <Ali> I only have this pony
07:21 <Ali> Have had her for years but little done with her
07:21 <Ali> Mostly due to the fact that fanartists well...just want too much money for a doodle
07:22 <Ali> The only time I paid for a doddle was way back when one of the comic people was at a con
07:22 <Ali> God the price was awful but I loved how she turned out
07:25 <ConfusionRift> Yeah, some of the prices are a little... too much.
07:25 *** Joins: RazorSharpFang (RazorSharpF@Pony-k3g.9f2.221.203.IP)
07:25 * ConfusionRift still has saved some of the commissions and such.
07:25 <Ali> I never had another artist commissioned for Ali
07:26 <Ali> Just don't have the funds to throw away $50
07:29 * ConfusionRift laughs.
07:30 <ConfusionRift> It is hard to dish the money for them. They were mostly requests, practices, and a few gifts from long ago.
07:32 <Ali> I've had a few gift ones, but they are like from S3 and before
07:32 * ConfusionRift nods.
07:34 <ConfusionRift> Before the whole "eject, abandon ship!" phase.
07:36 <ConfusionRift> Well, the first one. not the last... ahem... anyways. Yeah, it's been a long time.
07:41 <Ali> But Twi is cuter with those wings
07:42 <ConfusionRift> I dunnoooo. The wings look- (notices a pony turn their head with a brick in hoof) -ffffanTASTIC!!! (lightly sobs)
07:43 <ConfusionRift> Actually, the whole thing really didn't bother me.
07:43 <ConfusionRift> I just kinda stopped because it was getting hard to keep up. (shrugs)
07:43 <ConfusionRift> Now more so since I no longer have NetFlix.
07:45 * Ali nods
07:45 <Ali> I have S1-3 on my Ipad
07:45 <Ali> But S4 glitched up and apple noticed they could rip you off more by doing half seasons instead of full
07:45 <RazorSharpFang> What an Apple sellout. :P
07:45 <Ali> I am not
07:45 <Ali> I've only ever owned one apple product so far
07:46 *** Joins: RyuImperator (RyuImperato@Pony-o527to.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
07:47 <RazorSharpFang> Impure
07:47 * Ali puffycheeks at RazorSharpFang
07:48 <RazorSharpFang> I don't make the rules, I just enforce them when I like them.
07:49 <ConfusionRift> Dood, she's already paying for the decision, with Apple's bullpoop of releasing updates to "unsupported devices" that destroy their performance.
07:49 <ConfusionRift> Because moneymoneymoneeeeeeey.
07:51 <Ali> Yeah my ipad has been bricked for years due to them no longer supporting it.
07:52 * ConfusionRift takes out his flip-phone. "And this thing still works just as intended."
07:53 <Ali> Yeah that's all I have as well
07:54 <ConfusionRift> OOOOOHHHH! I know no not everyone like Pewdiepie (I don't care that much either) But what happened to the PC Linus sent him is just... so much pain.
07:54 <RazorSharpFang> Aw, my computer bluescreened again
07:57 <Ali> Must be nice to get free shit like that.
07:58 <Ali> I get jelly of these yubtubers that get gifted or sent free stuff cause they can make vids
08:00 <RazorSharpFang> I'm thinking it's time to get a new computer, mine still has a habit of bluescreening, citing memory problems after I've already re-seated the memory a dozen times.
08:00 <ConfusionRift> Ali: The motherboard was loose on arrival. That means it probably was just rocking inside the case during shipping. A BIG no bueno... and I do agree. Would be nice for someone to just give me something for not doing much and being popular.
08:01 <ConfusionRift> RazorSharpFang: Could be a RAM issue. Which could be the RAM itself... or the slots, in which case would be a good indication for a new computer.
08:32 * ConfusionRift flopples.
08:41 * Ali flops over the ConfusionRift and sighs
08:55 <ConfusionRift> Hmm, my PS4 controller has a nasty drift... great.
09:10 <Ali> So I had a fairy grow me instantly 4000G worth of cauliflower in one day
09:12 <ConfusionRift> Hehehe... oh, guessing Stardew Valley?
09:19 * Ali nods
09:23 <Ali> Its gonna allow me to buy a TON of strawberry seeds at the egg festival
09:28 <Ali> Ok I've not seen that before
09:28 <Ali> Something just popped out of the ocean and swam out to sea.
09:29 <ConfusionRift> o_0
09:31 <Finwe> Good afternoon, everypony.
09:31 <Finwe> Lt Cdr ConfusionRift, Capt Koopz.
09:31 <Finwe> o7
09:31 <Finwe> Mlles Ali, Filly_Nightmares and PrincessRainbows; Messrs Lumindia, RazorSharpFang and Schism.
09:31 * Finwe doffs his hat.
09:32 * Ali flops over Finwe
09:33 * Finwe ruffles the Ali.
09:38 <Ali> Got 69 strawberry seeds
09:39 * Finwe devours Ali's starwberry seeds.
09:45 <ConfusionRift> RAdm. Finwe. (salutes)
10:00 *** Joins: Angeline (Scootaloo@I.Will.Fly.Higher)
10:19 <Ali> There has to be a meme somewhere about
10:19 <Ali> Something something, but Piere's closed on Wednesdays
10:19 <Ali> I just needed 1k gold to get my watering can upgraded cause its gonna rain tomorrow
10:19 <Ali> But Piere's closed on Wednesdays...
10:20 <ConfusionRift> Blarg.
10:39 * PrincessRainbows makes scared little filly noises and flailyhooves at ConfusionRift
10:39 * Filly_Nightmares noms Finwe
10:42 * ConfusionRift huggles PrincessRainbows for comfort... for a bit.
10:42 <ConfusionRift> I have to crash soon as well.
10:45 * PrincessRainbows licks the pony for a bit
10:52 * ConfusionRift lightly pats PrincessRainbows, then falls asleep.
10:52 *** Quits: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-boo.irn.56.193.IP) (Quit: Recharging the batteries. Laters! *shutdown*)
10:53 * Filly_Nightmares curls up wif Ali
10:53 * Ali brushies the Filly_Nightmares
10:54 * Filly_Nightmares murrs and stretchies out for brushie
11:06 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #1914 [ http://tinyurl.com/ybf79lo6 ]
11:13 * Finwe boops a Filly_Nightmares.
11:22 * Filly_Nightmares nomfs Finwe
11:26 * Finwe tastes of spaghetti alla carbonara.
12:04 * Filly_Nightmares murrs and goes sleepies on Finwe
12:06 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: May Highlights for Discovery Family Show No Pony Life [ http://tinyurl.com/y9oaz3k9 ]
12:26 *** Quits: Ali (Ali@Pony-cvibue.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving)
15:35 * Schism yawns. Awakens. "Sleeping in on one's day off -- pure luxury."
15:45 <Cepheid> Heh.
15:47 * Cepheid coughs up a lung.
15:50 * Schism looks at the lung speculatively.
15:52 <Cepheid> *It is the lung of a demon*
15:53 * Schism shotguns.
15:55 <Cepheid> Good idea.
15:55 <Cepheid> Can never be too sure.
15:55 <Schism> Plus, the double-barrel shotgun was Pterry's favourite weapon.
15:56 <Cepheid> https://www.smbc-comics.com/ Heh.
15:56 <Schism> “Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...”
15:56 <Cepheid> For some reason, that latest SMBC comic makes me think of Doomguy.
15:57 <Cepheid> In reality, he learned to slay the demons by slaying the demons that bothered him as a child during the night.
15:57 <Schism> Hehe. Also, now I want pancakes.
15:58 <Cepheid> Huh.
15:58 <Cepheid> I dropped my phone, the case protected it, fine and dandy.
15:58 <Schism> Oh, cool!
15:58 <Cepheid> The screen protector popped off.
15:59 <Cepheid> But yeah, I kinda expected the phone itself to be fine.
15:59 <Cepheid> I bought one of those otterbox cases.
16:00 <Cepheid> My dad has one, and good gods the man drops his phone all the time. For someone with incredible manual dexterity for repairing hardware, he sure can't control his hands well anywhere else.
16:00 * Schism peers thereat. "Oh, nice."
16:00 * Cepheid goes to take a second capsule of vyvanse.
16:02 <Cepheid> Long story short? Don't try to distract me from work too much. It won't end well.
16:02 <Schism> Furrfu.
16:02 <Cepheid> Hmm?
16:02 <Schism> Heh. ROT13 for 'Sheesh.'
16:03 <Cepheid> Ah.
16:03 <Cepheid> Right, right.
16:03 <Cepheid> Yeah, Vyvanse controls my ADHD, which lets my OCD take over. That seems to be my analysis of it every time I take large doses of it.
16:03 <Schism> Hm. How to feel about the death of Kim Jong-Un...
16:03 <Schism> Ah, gotcha.
16:03 <Cepheid> Oh? Did they confirm he's actually dead?
16:03 <Cepheid> Last I heard, they were under the impression he was in a vegetative state.
16:04 <Schism> Not as such, no. Succession games and all that, though, are already in play.
16:04 <Schism> It's pretty clear that one way or another he's not coming out of this alive.
16:04 <Cepheid> True.
16:04 <Cepheid> Especially as his sister is supposedly taking over.
16:04 <Schism> Yeah. I wonder if she'll have the bloc required to keep control of the state, though.
16:04 * Cepheid decides for something different until the meds kick in. Grabs some printer paper, a pencil.
16:06 <Cepheid> If she doesn't, she can just have the people killed.
16:06 * Schism also provides Cepheid with some cream of wheat with loads of butter and some strawberry jam.
16:06 <Cepheid> By cannon.
16:08 <Schism> Well, there are worse ways to go.
16:10 <Cepheid> True.
16:10 <Schism> For example, the Ginosaji.
16:10 <Cepheid> I have an unusual, but simple design for an OC.
16:10 <Schism> Oh?
16:14 <Cepheid> It's a largish mottled-brown lamprey eel-like creature. It tends to rest in a posture similar to that of a king cobra snake ready to strike, only the tip of the head is tilted downwards because of the structure of the head. The mouth is on the underside of the head, while a single eye is on the topside. The single eye, besides having unique traits to it, and being the defining feature, is a reference to how I am constantly
16:14 <Cepheid> looking around with one eye closed because I can't focus my eyes in a lot of cases.
16:16 <Schism> Huh. o3o Peculiar. Interesting, though, to be sure.
16:19 <Cepheid> I also gave it a relatively simple lore and history behind it, so as to keep things ambiguous, as well as short in general. I don't need the 30+ page backstories that accompany some D&D characters.
16:20 <Schism> Well, characters in general. *whistles innocently* Not that I've ever written an entire page just describing one of my character's outfits or anything.
16:21 <Schism> characters'*
16:22 * Schism provides the ADragonDreaming with a bagel with cream cheese and strawberry jam.
16:22 <Cepheid> It's backstory is simple. The universe it originated from was one of many in a multiverse that had been consumed by an alien entity. Fleeing the universe before it was destroyed with a bunch of refugees, it became their leader, and now as they hop through the multiverse, they work to grow an army large enough to destroy said entity.
16:22 <Cepheid> That's literally it.
16:23 <Cepheid> Of course, as they are being chased by said entity, this means any universe they manage to hop into is inevitably consumed.
16:24 <Cepheid> So whether it's a good thing or bad thing that it is in a given location at any one time is up for debate.
16:24 <Schism> Hmm. Not quite the same thing as the Silver Surfer there, and definitely an interesting idea. Devourers of universes are fun.
16:25 <Cepheid> 'Cept the Silver Surfer had insane amounts of power, and was a herald.
16:26 <Schism> Well, I did say it wasn't the same.
16:26 <Cepheid> This thing has little to no power. Initially I planned to allow for it to have a lot of power, but I decided against it. Instead, it utilizes remote-controlled machines to fight for it, as well as being able to provide some symbiotic traits to any entity it is attached to.
16:26 <Cepheid> But no real power other than that.
16:27 * Cepheid just likes the idea of seeing a slimy, constantly drooling, snake-like single-eyed creature riding atop a mech, flailing wildly as it makes screeching noises as a way of ordering the machines around.
16:28 <Cepheid> Also, I plan to use that as it's constant "first meeting" trait. That is, it's standing there trying to talk to a member of a new species it just encountered, and all you see and hear is lots of screeching and flailing as it tries to communicate until it remembers that no one can understand it's screeching, and uses automated translation technology.
16:29 <Cepheid> *Screech* *Screch* *Screeech* *Screech* *SCHREECH!* *Scre-* "... Wait, you can't understand that. My apologies."
16:30 <Schism> Based on the nature of that OC, I'm wondering if it wouldn't simply say "Scree".
16:30 <Cepheid> Heh.
16:30 <Schism> That would be rather hilarious, though -- the translation thing. X3
16:30 <Cepheid> It wasn't derived from the Serpent, trust me.
16:30 <Schism> Oh, I know.
16:31 <Cepheid> But seriously, the idea of the other character just standing there, staring at this small slimy creature just flail about wildly, screeching in different, but stable-sounding tones that don't sound like screaming, and then all of a sudden it realizes what it's doing, activates a universal translater, and apologizes in a posh british accent.
16:31 <Schism> If I ever find myself in a position where I'm going to meet alien entities, I'm going to carry a card with me. This card will include a list of dots, with Arabic numerals from 0 to 14 counting those dots, as well as the D'ni eqeuivalent.
16:32 <Schism> equivalent*
16:32 <Cepheid> Heh.
16:32 <Schism> Though admittedly the D'ni variant would require at least 26 items.
16:32 <Cepheid> Ironically, mathematics might be the best way to communicate with an alien species for the first time.
16:33 <Schism> That's not ironic! That's the universal language. See also the Pioneer plaque.
16:33 <Cepheid> Yeah, I know.
16:34 <Schism> Any culture advanced enough to travel across the stars probably knows that 1+1=2. So we have a common point, a touchstone, from which all other language can gradually be derived.
16:34 <Cepheid> Well, not just that.
16:34 <Cepheid> It's easier to point at a single rock, then at a numeral. Then at two rocks, and another numeral. Then at three rocks, and so on, and so on.
16:35 <Cepheid> To express our mathematical representation.
16:35 <Schism> Yeah, and from there we get the concept of multiples in language.
16:35 <Cepheid> And once you get a basic understanding of numbers and concepts, you can go from there to derive the language.
16:35 <Cepheid> Especially if you can start grasping concepts they understand in your own terms.
16:35 <Schism> Admittedly, both ideas come to a grinding halt if you get an alien which doesn't sense the universe in the same ways we do, such that pointing and showing a card with numbers are both eliminated.
16:35 <Cepheid> True.
16:36 <Cepheid> But that said, they would *HAVE* to sense shape, in some manner.
16:36 <Cepheid> You can't avoid objects without some manner of sensing shape.
16:36 <Schism> I'm imagining you showing a Rubik's cube to the Many-Angled Ones and starting an interdimensional war.
16:37 <Schism> Not that this would happen, my mind just leaps to amusing circumstances.
16:37 <Cepheid> I would hope that most sufficiently advanced societies would grasp the concept of "not everyone else is the same as us."
16:37 <Cepheid> And thus, accept faux pas are doomed to happen.
16:38 <Cepheid> The exception of course are the militarized societies, presumably.
16:38 <Schism> Cepheid, our scientific name for ourselves is homo sapiens. Aliens which are fundamentally different from us in a lot of ways are going to be a tough pill to swallow.
16:38 <Cepheid> They would enforce their doctrine.
16:38 <Cepheid> I understand.
16:38 <Schism> Ironically, we've such a bevy of sci-fi and fantasy about it that we're not actually going to do that badly, though.
16:39 <Cepheid> It's just, if you get to a point where you can traverse the stars, the probability that we are the first species they encounter is nearly nil, and thus you should, by the point you encounter us, KNOW that not every sapient species out there is the same as you.
16:40 <Cepheid> Again, the exceptions are the ones who try to force a doctrine upon others simply because they believe that they are right, because they are the center of the universe.
16:40 <Schism> Intellectually, sure. Emotionally, we grasp for touchstones, points of similarity, and there will inevitably be a species which doesn't, and has no such touchstones beyond being able to think and traverse the stars.
16:40 <Cepheid> Oh, I know.
16:40 <Cepheid> Like I said, there are societies and cultures that will be worse than us.
16:41 <Schism> And of course, there'll always be 'god emperors'. And those which are better than us, too.
16:41 <Cepheid> We should be lucky that the Earth has no single dominating culture.
16:41 <Cepheid> Even though it causes lots of infighting among our species as a whole.
16:41 <Schism> Well. I wouldn't expect that a monoculture would be able to get to the stars quickly, if at all. That's one of the solutions to the Fermi paradox.
16:42 <Cepheid> And yet, the probability that we encounter such a species is greater than zero.
16:42 <Schism> At least in human terms, monocultures are, by their nature, very stagnant. Even the Zerg had variety and constant infighting.
16:42 <Cepheid> Just because there is a belief in no extraterrestrial life doesn't mean that a species will stay confined to it's planet.
16:43 <Cepheid> Our planet has limited resources. They'll run out. We *HAVE* to leave the planet, even if there is no other reason to do so.
16:43 * Schism nods. "Entropy always wins."
16:43 <Cepheid> Even if we managed a full, 100% recycling of all resources on the planet, we still have other problems. Space.
16:44 <Cepheid> Our planet can only hold so much, and eventually we will exhaust all our resources building homes, growing food, and the like for the population.
16:44 <Cepheid> Even if we colonize another planet simply because the soil is good for growing food, and not much else, because it's pretty much barren..
16:44 <Schism> In that sense, the solution proposed by the Wachowski sisters in The Matrix is sensible, if horrifying on a visceral level.
16:44 <Cepheid> Can't say I recall that.
16:45 <Schism> The machines podding the humans and providing them a virtual world, to curb overpopulation and to allow them to live their lives.
16:45 <Cepheid> ... Intel, why are you still trying to get support for your SGX Enclaves stuff into the Linux kernel when the damned thing has so many vulnerabilities that swiss cheese is less empty?
16:45 <Schism> From a certain moral standpoint, it's not actually a bad idea.
16:46 <Cepheid> Especially if we aren't aware of it.
16:46 <Schism> Exactly. Of course, then we get into solipsism and the nature of God.
16:46 <Cepheid> 'Cause, no offense, what I remember of the Matrix is that the "Real World" is a garbage dump.
16:47 <Cepheid> Not a literal garbage dump, I just mean it looks like one.
16:47 <Cepheid> It doesn't look like a place humans would legitimately want to live.
16:47 <Schism> Yeah, and the thing is, humans were the real cause of that, by basically blocking out the sun due to sheer idiocy.
16:47 <Cepheid> You're free from the system, but at what cost?
16:47 <Cepheid> You live in what is effectively a dump.
16:47 <Cepheid> It'd have been better to stay within the system, or better yet..
16:48 <Cepheid> Work with the machines somehow. The planet needs to be restored, so ask the machines to change their modus operandi.
16:48 <Schism> Better yet, not create the situation which necessitated the system in the first place. Did you watch the Animatrix bits?
16:48 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
16:48 <Cepheid> I did not, no.
16:48 <Cepheid> But yes, not creating the situation would be a workable idea as well.
16:48 <Schism> You should sometime, they're quite good.
16:48 <Cepheid> Unfortunately...
16:48 * Cepheid looks to the South.
16:49 <Schism> Basically, in the Matrix universe, humans felt a sense of irrelevance once their children started rendering them obsolete in regards to manufacturing, et cetera, and they took it upon themselves to instigate a civil war, starting with rendering those children to second class toys.
16:50 <Schism> Luddism at its very worst.
16:50 <Schism> And while a cloth loom can't kick you back...
16:51 <Cepheid> The thing is, I can't see an AI really doing what they do in those apocalyptic movies.
16:51 <Cepheid> An AI is only as good as it's creator.
16:51 <Cepheid> There's other issues of concern, too.
16:52 <Schism> For a more positive interpretation of this, I suggest reading Mark Stanley's Freefall.
16:52 <Cepheid> If you give an AI access to the collected works of humanity, there's too much contradicting information. Even in smaller subsets, you'll find contradicting information.
16:52 <Schism> While it starts with a bioengineered wolf meeting an alien squid (or Sqid) with entirely different values, it delves heavily into the societal implications of an AI class of citizens which is on par with humans.
16:53 <Schism> For example, one colony of AIs decided to choose against war because they watched My Little Pony.
16:53 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
16:53 <Cepheid> An AI that works similarly to a human being is likely to have much of the same problems as a human being.
16:53 <Cepheid> Yes, there are concerns of them hacking into things they shouldn't.
16:53 <Cepheid> But if we're being honest, we have that problem RIGHT NOW.
16:54 <Cepheid> We have people attempting to hack into nuclear power plants and such.
16:54 <Schism> And of course, any AI programmed by a human being will be similar in a number of ways.
16:54 <Cepheid> It'll be similar to the person who made it.
16:54 <Cepheid> Because there's disagreement about how humans learn, among other things, in terms of psychology.
16:54 <Cepheid> So they're likely to use the approach that *THEY* use for things where there's multiple explanations for human nature.
16:54 <Schism> From a darker standpoint, the webcomic "SSDD" has an AI named the Oracle.
16:55 <Schism> The purpose of the Oracle was to guide a government agency, and the best way to guide such an agency is to learn everything and make perfect predictions.
16:55 <Cepheid> Unfortunately, that's not possible.
16:55 <Schism> Problem is, humans (or the various races within that webcomic) are stupid and fundamentally unpredictable, yes.
16:55 <Cepheid> As stated, there are contradictions.
16:55 <Schism> Then the programmer got hit by a bus before he could tell the Oracle that.
16:55 <Cepheid> And of course, once you hit a loop hole, an AI trying to follow the law to exacting specifications will encounter a cyclical loop.
16:56 <Schism> And so the Oracle went completely and absolutely insane, and it turns out that the best way to render people completely predictable...
16:56 <Cepheid> Any AI that is touted as being able to learn, be smart, and lead, is going to be biased.
16:56 <Cepheid> Because it's creator designed it as such.
16:56 <Cepheid> And it will be aligned with it's goals.
16:57 <Cepheid> An AI is a tool to a means for them, not a replacement for some entity that exists in our current society. It will never be.
16:57 <Cepheid> I would actually trust Trump over an AI that someone creates to lead a country.
16:57 <Schism> With the tools we have, absolutely.
16:57 <Cepheid> There are just too many problems involved with relying on an AI to do anything.
16:58 <Cepheid> Even with the tools of the future.
16:58 <Cepheid> I'm not worried about an AI trying to kill us.
16:58 <Schism> We cannot create a neural network which is functionally equivalent to a human brain with our resources, even if we had it envelop the entire world. (Hello, Skynet!)
16:58 <Cepheid> No, if it tries to kill us, it's because it's designer designed it to do that.
16:58 <Schism> Yup.
16:58 <Schism> Admittedly, you're wrong on one point, Cepheid.
16:58 <Cepheid> Oh?
16:59 <Schism> I'd trust an ELIZA bot over President Trump.
16:59 <Cepheid> Oh, sure.
16:59 <Cepheid> I'm talking of a specific case, though.
16:59 <Schism> Fair enough.
16:59 <Cepheid> An AI, specifically designed to lead a country or world.
16:59 <Cepheid> The problem is that the AI would have bias.
16:59 <Cepheid> Either directly by the individual(if it was an individual) who created it.
16:59 <Schism> Yeah, outside of very specific cases, that wouldn't be good at all. Like, sure, take input from military leaders on how to advise the military.
17:00 <Cepheid> Or by the leanings of the team of designers that created it.
17:00 <Cepheid> Meanwhile, an unbiased AI would likely lock itself up.
17:00 <Schism> It wouldn't be better than the person who designed it, and would likely be worse.
17:00 <Schism> Heh, if you could hypothetically create an unbiased AI.
17:00 <Schism> Humans deal with race conditions by ignoring them.
17:00 <Cepheid> The reason it'd lock up is, in an attempt to please everyone, it would encounter too many logical problems.
17:00 <Cepheid> Contradictions.
17:01 <Schism> You might like the fanfic "Friendship is Optimal". It's an illustration of that and paperclipping.
17:01 <Cepheid> AIs can be designed to make a choice after a certain number of attempts to resolve a problem, but..
17:01 <Cepheid> Then it becomes biased.
17:01 <Cepheid> Because it has to make a choice in one direction or another.
17:01 <Schism> Because of course, if a solution works, it will become more heavily weighted.
17:02 <Schism> You familiar with paperclip maximizers?
17:02 <Cepheid> Yes.
17:02 <Cepheid> I don't think weighting a choice based on pros and cons would work either, because humans don't do that.
17:02 * Schism nods. (Also, there's a paperclip maximizer web game. It's fun and horrible.)
17:02 <Cepheid> There's too many factors involved, besides just the pros and cons of a choice.
17:03 <Schism> Functionally infinite turtles.
17:03 <Cepheid> There's financial cost. Can we afford that choice. There's moral choices. Does it involve causing suffering to a given group. Etc. Etc. Etc.
17:03 <Cepheid> And again, we get back into biasing as a result.
17:03 <Cepheid> The weights of things have to be chosen by a human mind.
17:04 <Cepheid> At which point, it becomes biased by that mind(or minds)
17:04 <Cepheid> So if an AI goes out of control and tries to kill us, it's because it was programmed to.
17:04 <Schism> Plus, assuming that it's not fully a sophont, any AI would by its nature be still a calculation engine. Moral ambiguity would not be a thing.
17:05 <Cepheid> I would assume, that we'd program moral considerations into an AI meant to make decisions regarding humanity.
17:05 <Schism> Yes, but how do you program a moral consideration like the trolley problem?
17:05 <Cepheid> On top of that, even if we didn't, I would *ASSUME* that humanity would be smart, and isolate the AI from a global intranet.
17:05 <Schism> Cepheid.
17:05 <Cepheid> You can still train an AI without connecting it to the Internet.
17:05 <Cepheid> Or any global network.
17:06 <Cepheid> You can even still communicate with it while not connecting it.
17:06 <Schism> Please tell me you're at least talking about an airgap instead of a firewall.
17:06 *** Joins: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-u30cht.dynamic.sonic.net)
17:06 <Cepheid> Airgap, yes.
17:06 <Schism> Okay, better, yes. Gods help us if some idiot decides to plug in a network cable, though.
17:06 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: 2 Day Warning for Fluttershy Day! [ http://tinyurl.com/y9lmwgeb ]
17:07 <Cepheid> Basically, rather than directly connecting it to a global intranet, we give it the ability to see and hear, and simply talk to it via a phone call or going up to it and talking to it.
17:07 <Cepheid> Since the machine itself can never move, we can also control what it can and cannot do.
17:07 <Cepheid> So for learning purposes, we could give it a voice-activated line to say, Wikipedia.
17:07 <Cepheid> Which it then reads like a standard human, by staring at a screen.
17:08 <Schism> There is one essential function which everyone forgets.
17:08 <Cepheid> There are ways to give an AI a connection to the global information without giving it a direct-wire connection to it.
17:08 <Schism> If it's bored, let it go to sleep.
17:08 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
17:08 <Schism> You do not want your potentially world-ending AI to get caught in a loop of its own thoughts.
17:08 <Cepheid> Of course, the idea of a computer sleeping is... weird.
17:09 <Schism> What do you mean? It just shuts down active processes until they're awoken by some external or internal stimulus, and doesn't have REM.
17:09 <Cepheid> Because, let's assume it lives in it's own little virtual world, that to the AI, ticks away at the same rate our world does.
17:09 <Cepheid> Eight hours to it, may actually be a few milleseconds to us.
17:10 <Schism> Well, yeah. But there's no reason it can't go into... well, I guess for its purposes it might be called a deep slumber or coma, but it's roughly the same. Just, "Okay, everything's done, goodnight."
17:10 <Cepheid> yeah.
17:10 <Cepheid> Dreaming state, REM, etc.
17:10 <Cepheid> A world where it can do what it wants.
17:10 <Cepheid> If anything that's likely how it'd even start in the first place.
17:10 <Schism> Not quite what I meant.
17:10 <Cepheid> So it can experiment with physical stuff.
17:11 <Schism> I would let it experiment, sure, but I'd also allow it to go into a state of functional shutdown when it gets bored and doesn't have any new ideas.
17:11 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
17:11 <Cepheid> Low-power state. Can work, too.
17:11 <Cepheid> Given current computers do that.
17:11 *** Quits: RazorSharpFang (RazorSharpF@Pony-k3g.9f2.221.203.IP) (Connection closed)
17:11 <Schism> Just 'sorry, I'm going into a coma, poke me when you need me to wake up.'
17:12 <Schism> A sentient AI which has been kept awake and active for however many cycles, on its own, with no input, is a recipe for disaster.
17:12 <Cepheid> Debatable.
17:12 <Schism> Remember that we're talking about an AI programmed by humans.
17:12 <Schism> You either get a wannabe god or a gibbering mess.
17:13 <Cepheid> True.
17:13 <Schism> Or both.
17:13 <Schism> Heh. You could maybe use that with your project.
17:13 * Cepheid hums. Wonders what to work on, now that his brain is running a mile a minute.
17:15 <Cepheid> Right, I was working on resource loading, because it was broken as hell.
17:16 <Cepheid> And somehow I let it get out of control and started investigating scripting.
17:16 <Cepheid> Right, let's get back to the original goal. Loading fonts.
17:20 <Schism> Heh, shouting and ranting and raving might be an admirable way to achieve your goals, but sometimes, kindness, sincerity and education are just as good. http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff3000/fc02992.htm
17:21 <Schism> Also, Cepheid, pursuant to our previous conversation: http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff3000/fc02995.htm
17:21 <Cepheid> The biggest issue I have with such discussions is that my mind likes to go deep.
17:22 <Schism> No harm in deep discussion, so long as we can fish ourselves back out.
17:22 <Cepheid> That's the problem.
17:22 <Cepheid> Unless I stop myself, I keep digging.
17:22 <Cepheid> There are things that I want to know, but at the same time, I don't want to know them.
17:22 <Schism> Yah, and also, eventually we run into our own tunnels and go into a loop.
17:23 <Schism> The mind doesn't work on Euclidian terms, so even a Hellevator will loop back on itself eventually.
17:24 <Schism> Gods, I've spent too much time with customers. I'm rephrasing things in simpler terms again.
17:24 <Cepheid> I have the capacity to observe a given concept from a large number of perspectives. The problem is, I generally don't use this capacity either because of emotional reasons, or because I simply don't want to, knowing what can happen.
17:25 <Cepheid> It's terrifying to be able to look at a choice someone makes, that got someone killed, and understand *WHY* they came to that choice, whether I agreed with it or not.
17:25 <Schism> If I want to, I have no fewer than 14 characters who will offer their own impressions on what is going on and why it's either a good idea or a bad idea. Trust me, I know exactly what you mean.
17:26 <Schism> You can emphasize with someone without agreeing with them.
17:26 <Schism> You can see exactly why an absolute monster made their choices, and understand what led up to that choice, and still not agree with them. That's ... well, that's just part of being a person.
17:27 <Cepheid> It's not emphasizing with someone. It is an attempt to understand how their mind works, by disconnecting from my own, and putting aside all of my beliefs. That I can just do that is distressing.
17:27 <Cepheid> Because it makes me question what I would do in certain situations.
17:27 <Schism> Disassociating. I can do that too. I wonder if we're weird that way. Hey, other folks in the channel! Can you do that too?
17:27 <Cepheid> Like the trolley problem. I can, and would change mindsets to resolve it in different ways depending on the situation.
17:28 <Cepheid> There are situations where I would let it kill a bunch of people over one, and vice versa.
17:28 <Cepheid> Or find a way to save everyone. Or find a way to kill everyone.
17:28 *** Quits: Cyan_Spark (Cyan_Spark@sparks.only.last.so.long) (Quit: sparks only last so long)
17:29 <Schism> I'd like to think that I would just immediately switch the lever to one and then think of other ways to solve things.
17:29 <Cepheid> Logic dictates that killing one person is worse than killing five. My default behaviour, if I didn't have time to think about it, would be to kill the one person, straight up. Regardless of who it is.
17:30 <Cepheid> Er, killing 5 people is worse*
17:30 <Schism> Yeah. Immediately minimalize the consequences and then figure out a way to stop those from happening.
17:31 <Cepheid> If a person presented me with such a choice, I'd minimize the consequences, then kill the person who presented me with the choice, because they are the monster who set it up in the first place to ensure that someone would die.
17:31 <Cepheid> Pull the lever, shoot the arsehole. One-two action.
17:32 <Schism> There was a web group which set up the trolley problem in reality -- but only in virtual space. They created an enactment where the people (after first signing a BEVY of forms and being advised on some aspects of the experiment) were shown a lot of screens.
17:32 <Cepheid> That reminds me, I still have to perform my experiment.
17:33 <Schism> Ultimately, one person did pull the lever, and they paid for psychological treatment for the whole group.
17:33 <Cepheid> I have an experiment regarding arachnopobia, that would be prefaced with an extensive warning of what was to come, a double switch that can't be accidentally selected by a keyboard or mouse before it starts, and a reminder that they can stop at any time.
17:34 <Schism> You have to blind it, so the actual purpose of the experiment can't be suggested ahead of time.
17:34 <Cepheid> I want to create a spider-like entity for my game, at least a boss. But I want to know which traits it is that triggers the arachnophobia, by creating a large set of different drawings of a simple spider, and asking the users to rate from 1 to 10 how much it bothers them.
17:35 <Cepheid> The thing about arachnophobia Schism, is even if you make the person *AWARE* of what's coming, it'll still get them.
17:35 <Schism> That's true.
17:35 <Cepheid> Arachnophobia is so incredibly strong that nothing can really prepare a person for it, for some reason.
17:35 <Cepheid> I know this to be the case because I did an initial test with my mother.
17:35 <Schism> I would suggest videos instead of drawings. For some people, the movement of spiders is what creeps them out, rather than the body. I, for example, am enormously creeped out by the movement of some spiders, but I find pictures of tarantulae quite adorable.
17:35 <Cepheid> She's got strong arachnophobia. Even those small, penny-sized spiders drive her up a wall.
17:36 <Cepheid> Hum, that presents an issue, then.
17:36 <Cepheid> Because it implies that the triggers of arachnophobia are not some single set of triggers.
17:36 <Cepheid> It could be anything.
17:36 <Cepheid> In my mother's case, I learned it's the number of legs.
17:36 <Schism> Definitely not. I do have some triggers based on bees, wasps, etc.
17:37 <Cepheid> A hexapod robot doesn't bother her. A robot with eight legs does. A spider-like entity with four legs doesn't.
17:37 <Schism> And for spiders, I'll occasionlly jerk back, then say, "Oh, you're fine." and just let the spider continue onwards.
17:37 <Cepheid> The last one I found out because of DOOM.
17:37 <Schism> There we go. So eight-legged entities...
17:37 <Cepheid> My mother also says it has to do with the eyes, in her case.
17:37 <Cepheid> Too many eyes.
17:37 <Schism> Heh, thinking of Discworld here. Eight is an unlucky number there.
17:37 <Cepheid> Also the pedipalps.
17:37 <Schism> Ooh. Yeah, that'll do it.
17:37 <Cepheid> Ironically I do have a thing with too many eyes, myself. Though it's more general.
17:38 <Cepheid> If something has like, a lot of eyes, it bothers me. Not so much as arachnophobia does with my mother, though.
17:38 <Cepheid> Though from what I've read, that's a normal behavior.
17:38 * Finwe beekeeper's hats on Schism.
17:38 <Cepheid> Because it's a common trope applied for creepiness in games.
17:38 <Schism> Eyes all over the place are just... yeah, eesh.
17:38 <Cepheid> Part of it has to do with the fact that eyes provide information.
17:38 <Cepheid> For our brains, anyways.
17:39 <Cepheid> We look at the eyes of a person or animal, we can see some sort of indication about emotion.
17:39 <Cepheid> The eyes are the window of the soul.
17:39 <Finwe> Cepheid: Eyes actually process information, too.
17:39 <Schism> I'd kind of like to see a foe with eyes connected to its limbs, though. Let the enemy hold out its eye limbs in a specific way in order to lock on to the player character, as a means by which to illustrate to the player that it's getting their exact position. That can then be avoided with a dodge roll or similar.
17:40 <Schism> By eliminating those limbs, the player character can then render it much less accurate.
17:40 <Cepheid> Yes, Finwe.
17:40 <Cepheid> You're kind of missing where I was trying to go with it, though.
17:41 <Finwe> Furrfu.
17:41 <Schism> Hehe.
17:41 *** Joins: Cyan_Spark (Cyan_Spark@sparks.only.last.so.long)
17:41 <Cepheid> :P
17:41 <Finwe> :3
17:42 <Schism> I spread the hacker terminology wherever I go. Still haven't gotten my workplace to accept "boxen" as a collective noun, though.
17:43 <Finwe> Box, goes like ox?
17:43 <Cepheid> Mostly, I just want to create a spider-like robotic boss. Partly because A) I find them cool, and B) I want some practice for another game I have in mind for the future.
17:43 <Schism> Exactly, Finwe.
17:44 <Schism> Cepheid: How about a seven-legged entity which moves around the battlefield by firing a 'leg' connected by mechanisms over to another wall?
17:44 <Finwe> Hmm, but then we should also have bow, goes like cow, and hence has plural pine.
17:44 <Schism> Or two legs, illustrated by a targeting marker, where it hangs from them and offers the other five as weaponry?
17:45 <Finwe> Because the plural of cow is kine.
17:45 * Cepheid hmms. Which version of OpenGL was it that supported specifying texture coordinates as integers..?
17:45 <Cepheid> OpenGL 3.2 has it, at the least.
17:45 <Cepheid> texelFetch and texelFetchOffset. But does HLSL have it?
17:46 <Schism> Finwe: Bau? I'm not sure if that'd work... the plural of computers as 'boxen' was suggested because it was relatively new, language-wise...
17:46 <Cepheid> MonoGame uses Shader Model 3, I believe..
17:47 <Schism> Ahn, we're silly people talking about silly things.
17:47 * Finwe hrmms at Schism.
17:47 <Finwe> Indeed, they're not the same, at least in modern phonology.
17:48 <Finwe> Except when they are, a bow meaning the act of bowing.
17:48 <Schism> Admittedly, I use the neologism 'foxen' to refer to the animal, as opposed to 'foxes', which is the accepted plural.
17:49 <Cepheid> Looks like...
17:49 <Schism> That's more a furry thing than anything else tho.
17:49 <Cepheid> MonoGame targets Pixel and Vertex shader version 4.
17:49 <Schism> Ah, so that would explain the discrepancies.
17:49 <Cepheid> Hum..
17:50 <Schism> Hmf. Tempted to head to the LCBO. I have Sundays/Mondays off, but the LCBO is closed on Mondays due to the situation.
17:50 <Cepheid> This doesn't make any sense. DirectX 9.0c is Shader Model 3.0, not 4.0. 4.0 requires DirectX 10. Unless there's a backwards compatibility thing that was implemented.
17:51 <Finwe> Liquor Control Board of Ontario?
17:51 <Schism> Precisely. One must be properly lubricated in order to deal with this shutdown.
17:53 <Cepheid> I had my alcohol last night.
17:53 <Finwe> Whoa, they're larger than Swedish Systembolaget or our Alko.
17:53 <Cepheid> Honestly I'd like a bottle of vodka, but my parents won't go to the LCBO.
17:53 <Schism> And while I don't drink while on the clock, it's very difficult to avoid having at least something immediately afterwards.
17:53 <Cepheid> They get their booze from the grocery stores.
17:53 <Schism> Cepheid: the LCBO has face masks with sneeze covers, gloves, and a bottle of hand sanitizer right by the door.
17:54 <Schism> Okay, I should unpack that. The reps have sneeze covers and face masks and gloves, and there is a bottle of hand sanitizer for the customers.
17:55 <Schism> Also, I can't drink vodka without Clamato or V8. Or some mixer. Heh.
17:55 <Cepheid> That's not the issue.
17:56 <Schism> Perhaps driving your parents' decision is that the LCBO stores also have a limitation on how many people can be in there at one time, currently. It's usually not that long of a lineup, but there is one.
17:56 <Cepheid> The local LCBO has lineups 24/7.
17:56 <Schism> Aha, yes. That would do it. ._.
17:56 <Schism> Like an amusement park, you have to wait to get what'll cause the world to spin around you.
17:57 *** Joins: jimm (horse@Pony-fr7.dqo.55.45.IP)
17:57 <Cepheid> ... Okay, Microsoft, it's nice that you have information on miminum version required for a shader function, but could you also list minimum versions required for versions before DX10?
17:58 <Schism> https://www.techwalla.com/articles/directx-9-minimum-requirements
17:58 <Cepheid> Not that.
17:58 <Schism> Oh, sorry.
17:59 <Cepheid> Shader code has a minimum required version.
17:59 <Schism> Oh! Right, I see.
17:59 <Cepheid> Oh, here we are.
17:59 <Cepheid> It's the intrinsic functions I want.
17:59 <Cepheid> Doesn't look like the intrinsic functions support the type of texture lookup I want.
18:00 <Schism> While I applaud your effort to make your code as backwards-compatible as possible, are you really going out of your way to check on DX9?
18:00 <Cepheid> Texture lookup works using coordinates in the range of 0.0 to 1.0.
18:00 <Cepheid> ... You raise a valid point, given most people have moved onto Windows 7 at a minimum.
18:00 <Cepheid> Which supported DX10.
18:00 <Cepheid> Up to DX11.
18:01 <Cepheid> Oh, wait.
18:01 <Cepheid> DX11 was Windows 8.
18:01 <Schism> Yeah, if any players are still using Windows XP or Server 2003, well...
18:01 <Cepheid> 11.1 was partially backported to 7, though.
18:01 <Cepheid> ... Oh, wait, that's 11.1, not 11.
18:02 <Cepheid> 11 was supported by 7.
18:02 <Cepheid> 11.1, partially. ANy further, nope.
18:02 <Schism> Yeah, so let's not grill your brain over that one.
18:02 <Cepheid> Yeah.
18:02 <Cepheid> Especially since by now, I think most people have access to a GeForce 400 or higher, or a Radeon HD 5000 or higher.
18:02 <Schism> I should think so.
18:02 * Cepheid checks the Steam Survey info.
18:03 <Finwe> Even my Mac Pro 3.1 has 5870.
18:03 <Cepheid> ... How is there 0.15% of "OTHER" video cards not Intel, nVidia, or AMD? What other video cards are people using with Steam?
18:03 <Cepheid> Looks like...
18:04 * Schism snarks, "3DFX?"
18:04 <Cepheid> 99.91% of respondants are using Windows 7 or higher for gaming with Steam.
18:05 <Schism> While I appreciate the hobbyists, you should maybe cut your losses and not deal with that .09%.
18:05 <Cepheid> And approximately 99.12% of respondants are using a DX10-capable card.
18:06 <Cepheid> So there's little to no reason to avoid using Shader Model 5.0.
18:06 <Cepheid> Let's see, what is Shader Model 5.0 equivalent to in OpenGL?
18:07 <Finwe> Cepheid: Interesting.
18:07 <Cepheid> Well, let's look at the OpenGL versions supported by the Radeon HD 5000 and GeForce 400 series.
18:07 <Finwe> I'd dare to claim that practically all gaming GPUs are nowadays manufactured by AMD or nVidia.
18:08 <Finwe> Is Matrox still in business?
18:08 <Schism> Or Intel.
18:08 <Cepheid> 4.5, approximately.
18:08 <Finwe> Or Intel.
18:08 <Finwe> Seems to be, but they use nVidia's chips.
18:08 <Cepheid> RADEON HD 5000 was OpenGL 4.5, while the GeForce 400 is 4.6
18:09 <Finwe> Schism: Are there any Intel video cards around, or are we just talking of integrated Iris Pro and such chips?
18:10 <Cepheid> That places minimum support at DX11 and OpenGL 4.5. So, Shader Model 5.0 and GLSL 4.50.
18:10 <Schism> Evidently they're kind of breaking out into the market. https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-xe-graphics-cards
18:10 <Cepheid> There is plans for discrete Intel cards.
18:10 <Schism> I did refer to integrated cards before, tho.
18:10 <Cepheid> Supposed to be out later this year.
18:11 <Cepheid> It'll be interesting to see how that pans out, performance-wise.
18:11 <Cepheid> Because Intel has a reputation with their GPUS.
18:11 <Cepheid> They are some of the most well-supported GPUs across all platforms, by far.
18:11 <Cepheid> Not the best in performance, but at least you can use them under any OS without complaints.
18:12 <Finwe> True.
18:12 <Cepheid> nVidia, meanwhile, has proprietary drivers which are problematic under Linux because of open-source community issues. AMD/ATI is getting better, in fact, I'm kind of wishing I had bought an AMD card instead of an nVidia card, raytracing-be-damned, now.
18:12 <Finwe> nVidia is somewhat notorious in the Linux world.
18:12 <Cepheid> Because nVidia's Linux support is starting to break down.
18:13 <Cepheid> With Wayland becoming more and more prevalent, nVidia is becoming harder and harder to use in Linux.
18:13 <Cepheid> Because Wayland depends on EGLStreams, and nVidia's implementation of EGLStreams is broken at worst, barely functional at best.
18:13 <Cepheid> Which causes severe performance issues for Wayland and anything that relies on EGLStreams.
18:13 <Schism> Guess we'll be catching a sea change: hopefully it won't turn into a monopoly.
18:13 <Cepheid> To a point where some window managers won't even support nVidia devices.
18:14 <Cepheid> I can't see Intel cards beating out AMD and nVidia that easily, but they will give them both a run for their money in the Linux world.
18:14 <Cepheid> Because I am dead-serious when I say that Intel GPUs are the best-supported in Linux, by far.
18:14 <Schism> Well, at least in the corporate market, competition drives innovation.
18:14 <Cepheid> Anyways..
18:15 <Cepheid> With knowledge of the minimum version of DirectX and OpenGL supported by majority of the users, I'll support DX10/OGL4.5 at a minimum, giving me access to a much wider array of features.
18:15 <Cepheid> It'll limit my mobile options, but uh...
18:15 * Schism nodnods. And laughs.
18:15 <Cepheid> I'm sorry, platformers don't work on mobile. Not unless you have a bluetooth controller connected to it.
18:15 <Cepheid> At which point, why bother?
18:16 <Schism> Well, tablets and such work as an impromptu monitor, much like the Switch, but that adds a great deal more testing and headaches and you're just one person.
18:17 <Cepheid> Especially given the record right now with OpenGL on android devices.
18:17 <Schism> Yeah, save yourself the pain, especially if you intend to publish on itch.io or similar.
18:17 <Cepheid> Google's been trying to resolve it by buying out the GPUFuzz project, but it's entirely up to hardware manufacturers to implement proper drivers.
18:17 <Cepheid> And with no control over that?
18:17 <Cepheid> It's gonna be a nightmare.
18:17 <Cepheid> This is one area where I actually applaud Apple.
18:18 <Cepheid> Because they control the hardware and the OS exclusively, they can control the quality, and if the drivers simply aren't up to a minimum spec, they simply don't release it.
18:18 <Schism> Yeah, at least they do have control over their devices and drivers. I hate, hate, HATE proprietary hardware, but I see from where they're coming.
18:18 <Cepheid> Google doesn't have that kind of control.
18:18 <Cepheid> Makes me wish they'd go "You can't release Android products without first passing this suite of tests."
18:18 <Cepheid> Which includes driver testing.
18:19 <Schism> They'd lose Huawei in a New York minute.
18:19 <Cepheid> The issue in the Android market is that the drivers all implement OpenGL, which is fine and dandy.
18:19 <Cepheid> But the implementations are incomplete, or don't follow spec, or are broken.
18:19 *** Joins: Pony|62001 (Pony62001@Pony-i454b4.cable.virginm.net)
18:19 <Cepheid> So, GLSL code written for one device may not work for another, even if they both report the same shader version and OpenGL version.
18:19 <Cepheid> A similar problem happens on PC, but it's not as bad, by far.
18:20 <Cepheid> Like, the mobile industry is several times worse, and by several I mean "in the hundreds"
18:20 <Schism> Out of pure curiosity, how does the implementation for audio differ between devices? That seems like it might have been hammered out by now.
18:21 <Cepheid> Problematic.
18:21 <Schism> As always.
18:21 <Cepheid> Judging from my reviews of the patch notes for the Linux kernel, laptops have a lot of problems with audio devices.
18:21 <Cepheid> Requiring a large set of quirks.
18:22 <Schism> Gods, remember loading a game and choosing if you wanted to use PC Speaker, Sound Blaster, or Roland?
18:22 <Cepheid> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/sound/usb/quirks.c
18:22 <Cepheid> Most of the works are cases of lines being wired up incorrectly.
18:22 <Cepheid> The chips themselves are fine.
18:22 <Cepheid> It's generally the connections between the chips, or even the audio connector.
18:22 * Schism head-desks. "He named it 'quirks', because of course he did. Not that I could come up with a better name."
18:23 <Schism> Daqrap?
18:23 <Cepheid> Hmm?
18:23 <Schism> Connections bet--
18:23 <Cepheid> Yeah.
18:23 <Cepheid> I know.
18:23 <Cepheid> I don't understand it either.
18:24 <Cepheid> The problem is that development of a system board is done concurrently.
18:24 <Cepheid> That is, the drivers are written alongside the design of the board itself.
18:24 <Cepheid> And then the production of the board.
18:24 <Cepheid> At least, I assume this is how it's done.
18:24 <Schism> No, that parses...
18:25 <Cepheid> Otherwise, a more sane process would be to design the board, manufacture test units, then have the developers implement/configure the drivers. If problems were found, update the design before producing more boards, etc.
18:25 <Cepheid> But I assume that's not possible.
18:25 <Cepheid> For some reason.
18:25 <Schism> I'm just floored at the headaches that the OS development team have to deal with whenever a new sound card is released.
18:25 <Cepheid> The other half of the problem is that mistakes may not be found until much, much later.
18:25 <Cepheid> After thousands of units were produced.
18:25 *** Joins: FruitNibbler (Eogan@Pony-60toh4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
18:26 <Cepheid> Schism, there's a flaw in Intel integrated GPUs, which has been around since Haswell(fourth generation core CPUs, so 2010-2011 approximately), that was only discovered within the last few months.
18:26 <Schism> You're probably right. That is to say, that the documentation for this particular setup is written first, and then drivers and board are developed concurrently. That would result in the error - and a patch for the drivers after it was determined that something went wrong.
18:27 <Cepheid> It's in the hardware itself.
18:27 <Cepheid> Replacing it isn't possible. It would involve a new system board.
18:27 <Schism> Cepheid: I think you mentioned that, yeah. Not Rowhammer, but a specific glitch resulting in escalation?
18:27 <Cepheid> There's been a few as of late.
18:27 <Cepheid> LVI, Rowhammer, the iGPU issue.
18:27 *** Quits: Fn (Eogan@Pony-ogdhii.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
18:28 <Cepheid> But yeah, they all involve getting data not meant to be accessed, or escalation of privileges.
18:28 <Schism> Rowhammer is the big one I remember as being ginormous not due to its effects on the average consumer, but due to its effects on business... yeah.
18:28 <Cepheid> It affects all hardware.
18:28 <Cepheid> Because it's a problem specific to RAM.
18:28 <Cepheid> Not any particular brand either.
18:29 <Cepheid> Because the problem is related to electrical problems created by the density of the RAM.
18:29 <Schism> Oh, I know. It's really unlikely to have any result on a single consumer's system unless it's set up at the exact proper time, but for enterprise machines, that could be a huge breach.
18:29 * Cepheid examines the features of OGL4.5 and Shader Model 5, to get an idea of what he has access to.
18:30 <Cepheid> You know what else is also a large breach waiting to happen?
18:30 <Schism> The vast number of consumers still using Windows 7?
18:30 <Cepheid> Using software written in languages the average programmer no longer knows or needs to know.
18:30 <Schism> Ohhh, yeah.
18:30 <Schism> Banks still, STILL use COBOL.
18:30 <Schism> And FORTRAN, which isn't that hard to use but is a headache to debug.
18:30 <Finwe> Windows 7 is alright, but I see no reason not to update to 10, which is better.
18:31 <Schism> 10's gotten better. 8.1 will be my go-to for the moment, but 10 is something I can deal with.
18:31 <Schism> It's still a bloated godsforsaken mess, though.
18:31 <Finwe> Vista and 8 were horrible, in my opinion.
18:32 <Schism> 8, I will grant you. 8.1 was to 8 what XP was to Vista.
18:32 <Schism> (8.1 is why MS skipped 9, because 8.1 /is/ 9. Microsoft curse.)
18:33 <Cepheid> Hum. Access to all shader types..
18:33 <Cepheid> So hull, compute, geometry, pixel, vertex, etc.
18:34 <Finwe> I've had 95, 2000, 7 and 10.
18:34 <Cepheid> All forms of compression currently supported, looks like.
18:34 <Schism> I've dealt with all of them, going back so far as Windows 3.0.
18:34 <Finwe> Between 2000 and 7 I used Debian and Ubuntu exclusively.
18:34 * Cepheid isn't sure he'll use compression. It creates artifacts, and in a pixel game, those are verboten.
18:34 <Cepheid> Still, nice to know for the future.
18:34 <Finwe> Back in the school we had some computers with 3.1.
18:35 <Schism> Well, that's not entirely accurate. I missed Windows and Windows 2, but I did have DOS 5 and DOS 6.22.
18:35 <Cepheid> Meanwhile... 16384 for a single dimension. Thus, 16384x16384 is the maximum texture size.
18:35 <Cepheid> I have no idea what a UAV slot is.
18:35 <Schism> Cepheid: I don't know, you could use compression in a pixel game as a subtle illustration that things are breaking down somewhere.
18:35 <Finwe> A slot for unmanned aerial vehicles. o3o
18:35 <Schism> You'd need a second set of textures, though.
18:35 <Cepheid> Unordered Access View. Hum.
18:36 <Cepheid> Ah. It's for reading/writing from/to textures at the same time.
18:36 <Schism> You could even use lossier compression formats (though with yet more texture sets) as things go on.
18:37 <Schism> Older GIF formats, maybe run them through filters a few times.
18:37 <Schism> If that's your thing, anyway. I think Axiom Verge probably did that.
18:37 <Cepheid> Heh.
18:37 *** Joins: Ali (Ali@Pony-cvibue.iplsin.sbcglobal.net)
18:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Ali Ali
18:37 <Cepheid> Unconditional support for NPOT textures.
18:37 <Finwe> Miss Ali.
18:37 * Schism provides the Ali with a strawberry frosted cake donut.
18:37 * Finwe doffs his hat.
18:37 * Ali flops over Finwe and Schism
18:38 <Ali> Had the random fairy event in SV Schism, gave me 4k worth of gold for strawberries.
18:38 <Finwe> o3o
18:38 <Schism> Congratulations! Alas, though, you have no void chicken.
18:38 <Ali> Its year 1 of a new run for funsies
18:39 <Schism> It is fun to just start from scratch sometimes.
18:39 <Cepheid> I don't need Alpha-To-Coverage.
18:39 <Ali> Going corperate cause screw Piere
18:39 * Schism should play My Life at Portia again sometime, see what's new.
18:39 <Ali> Stupid closed on Wednesdays have bit me more than once
18:39 <Schism> Um...
18:39 <Schism> Once you complete the Community Center, Pierre opens on Wednesdays too.
18:39 <Ali> This is before that you goof
18:40 <Schism> I know, but you're going to disappoint everyone, you monster!
18:40 <Ali> And I needed early cash to buy the watering can upgrade
18:40 * Schism flailyhooves at Ali.
18:40 <Ali> Guess what Schism, I already disappoint them all
18:40 <Schism> :<
18:41 <Finwe> All of everyone?
18:41 <Ali> Plus going the Joja way means I don't have to do stupid fetch quests. Sure there's no rewards, but I can just outright buy the greenhouse
18:41 * Schism grumblycakes. "That's the evil route."
18:42 <Schism> There is that mod, though, which adds the manager of the Jojamart as a character and potential love interest.
18:42 * Ali is so evil, screw Lewis and Piere.
18:42 <Ali> At least for this run
18:43 <Schism> Emily and Abigail will be heartbroken too.
18:43 * Schism looks sadfaced. ;-;
18:43 <Cepheid> All I know is DX10 supports what I need. OpenGL-wise, I just need OpenGL 2.0
18:43 <Cepheid> So yeah, this'll do.
18:45 <Cepheid> That said, MonoGame has a problem.
18:45 * Ali pat pats Schism, she just wants some things a bit easier for this run.
18:45 <Cepheid> Depending on the graphics target, the shader model supported is different.
18:46 <Cepheid> For targeting DirectX graphics rendering, it's shader model 4 and up.
18:46 <Cepheid> For targeting OpenGL, it's shader model 2 or 3.
18:46 <Cepheid> And guess what Linux uses?
18:46 <Cepheid> I can get around this, though.
18:46 <Schism> Well, that's fair! Everyone does the genocide run once in Undertale too, after all.
18:47 <Cepheid> My solution being "Just write shaders for HLSL and GLSL.
18:47 <Cepheid> I only need one particular custom shader anyways
18:48 <Cepheid> Though I may still have issues, since I'm not sure how MonoGame compiles shaders within the code itself, rather than using it's pipeline system.
18:48 * Cepheid checks the github for monogame.
18:50 * Schism listens to the soundtrack to Garuda+Ifrit.
18:50 <Cepheid> ... Assuming I can even compile it within code.
18:51 * Cepheid sighs. "Infection, **** off."
18:53 <Schism> ... Jazz! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndB8RF0Neq4 (spoilers for late FFXIV quests)
18:58 *** Joins: Genetool (Genetool@Pony-v3r1rd.adsl.tpnet.pl)
19:02 * Cepheid looks through github repo to see if there's a class that'll take GLSL code and compile it.
19:02 *** Quits: Genetool (Genetool@Pony-v3r1rd.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Quit: Leaving)
19:06 <Schism> I just realized that giving an irate customer our case number without prompting is kind of a microaggression, because it means we're so secure in how we've handle the case that we're certain we'll keep our jobs.
19:06 <Cepheid> If I'm reading this right, it's just a case of instantiating an instance of Shader, passing the source file to it.
19:06 <Schism> handled*
19:06 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Penny Wrights: Equestria Girls: Leaping off the Page Follow Up [ http://tinyurl.com/y7njvxve ]
19:07 <Cepheid> That is, if I could actually instantiate it.
19:07 <Cepheid> Seems to be an internal class.
19:10 <Cepheid> Right, so because of how MonoGame handles things, I'm effectively stuck at Shader Model 3.0 maximum.
19:10 <Cepheid> I have no choice.
19:10 <Schism> Errrgh...
19:10 <Cepheid> Which means I'll just have to bite the bullet and avoid NPOT textures.
19:11 <Cepheid> Damned library uses something called MojoShader to compile FX(HLSL, or DirectX) shaders to different shader languages for different graphics APIs. Problem is, for OpenGL, it's limited to Shader Model 3.0.
19:12 <Cepheid> And it doesn't look like MojoShader's been updated to support later versions, and I have no way of checking because it's website doesn't appear to keep track of what's supported.
19:12 <Ali> ... I need Topaz to rub on my sore nose..
19:13 <Schism> Mayor Lewis, is that you?
19:13 <Cepheid> Aaaaand...
19:14 <Schism> Well, there are weirder cures.
19:14 <Cepheid> Some further searching through MojoShader's most recent code...
19:14 <Cepheid> Suggests Shader Model 3 is the maximum.
19:14 * Cepheid sighs. Shrugs. Just deals with it.
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19:34 *** Quits: jimm (horse@Pony-fr7.dqo.55.45.IP) (Connection closed)
19:34 *** Quits: jimmt (horse@Pony-fr7.dqo.55.45.IP) (Connection closed)
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19:57 <Ali> Schism, I found a gold bar in a trash can
20:01 * Schism snrks. "At least it wasn't iridium, that would have been silly."
20:04 <Cepheid> You'd think after all this time working with fonts, I'd be able to understand the metrics used in FreeType.
20:04 <Ali> Comic Sans for life *shot*
20:05 *** Quits: jimmt (horse@Pony-fr7.dqo.55.45.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
20:15 * Finwe makes Ali eat a document typeset in Comic Sans.
20:15 <Schism> Finwe! Be responsible.
20:16 <Schism> Half the document should also be in Papyrus.
20:16 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: My Little Pony "Friendship is Forever" #2 - Stream / Discussion [ http://tinyurl.com/y9sy87qe ]
20:18 <Cepheid> There we go. Got that working.
20:18 * Finwe tries to imagine the document described by Schism, then gags and vomits.
20:19 <Schism> Papyrus for the headers, Comic Sans for the actual documentation. In bold italics, 17 point.
20:19 <Schism> With words cut off by the paper margins.
20:19 * Cepheid just needs to do some translation, now.
20:20 <Schism> And the printer's kind of broken, so it's all in magenta.
20:20 * Cepheid really should make a generic "Draw this texture here" function that handles the translation stuff.
20:21 <Schism> Also, inconsistent kerning... okay, I'm done.
20:21 * Cepheid is using a monospaced font. Doesn't have to worry about kerning.
20:21 <Cepheid> I don't want to, either.
20:22 <Cepheid> The problem with kerning, is it depends on the previous character and the next character.
20:23 <Schism> Yay, I wrote a pretty decent microfic.
20:25 <Cepheid> Assuming an absolute worst case, it means that for a given font with N glyphs, there are N kerning pair structures for each glyph, for N^2 structures. However, worst case is kept to a minimum since kerning can generally be calculated on the fly using some mathematics and other stuff. So that data isn't stored anywhere, unless manual kerning information is inserted.
20:25 <Cepheid> Problem is, bitmap fonts don't have that kind of freedom.
20:25 <Cepheid> 'Course, one can get around that by only storing kerning information when it's not "0/0"
20:26 <Cepheid> In any case, because of languages that use a fixed-width font, and I'd like to try and maintain a single "untranslated glyph" set for the game, I'm just going to use fixed-width fonts everywhere.
20:30 *** Joins: matttheshadowman (matthewhowa@Pony-s41.0ec.238.89.IP)
20:34 <Schism> Cepheid: ... okay, I just realized this is a jazz remix of Sastasha.
20:34 <Cepheid> Now I just need to resolve one last issue. Rendering the text correctly. It's positioned right, oriented correctly, but now needs to be fixed up in terms of blending.
20:34 <Schism> Freaking SASTASHA.
20:34 <Cepheid> Heh.
20:40 *** Quits: RyuImperator (RyuImperato@Pony-o527to.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
20:47 *** Quits: WildSoft (WildSoft@Pony-ca7vt3.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: Toodle-loo! Au revoir! Auf wiedersehen! Ciao! Ting tao tay!)
20:48 * Cepheid plays around with blending functions to get desired effect.
20:48 <Schism> Hum. The beetle probably knew something. But who asks a beetle?
20:54 * Cepheid blares Bad Apple.
20:55 <Cepheid> ... Gods damnit,
21:00 *** Joins: WildSoft (WildSoft@Pony-ca7vt3.bredband.comhem.se)
21:00 <Schism> "If you take nothing more away from this story, then at the very least take this: that if someone tells you 'just because', they're telling you to stop thinking."
21:02 <Cepheid> ...
21:02 <Cepheid> God damnit, who the hell outside is causing explosions or dropping large loads?
21:05 <Cepheid> So, I noticed a thing I do when I get irritable.
21:05 <Cepheid> At least, one that I've started doing, because it sorta helps contain the irritation.
21:06 <Cepheid> Basically, when something irritates me, like a sudden unexpected noise or getting beaten in a game repeatedly, I start taking my hands off of whatever I have them on, and sort of do this thing where I'm gripping something invisible, and try to crush it.
21:17 *** Joins: PinkieShy (coolm@Pony-ck81je.67-212-45-net.sccoast.net)
21:21 <PinkieShy> This man on youtube reviewing Hershey kiss cereal.. IT looks straight up like dog kibble to me..
21:23 * Cepheid facepalms.
21:25 <Ali> Schism, the one time I'm not doing the Com Center
21:25 <Ali> Cart has Red Cabbage Seeds
21:26 <Cepheid> Screw this. I'm gonna go take a shower.
21:26 <Cepheid> I need a break.
21:28 * Filly_Nightmares berps and nomfs Ali neck
21:41 <Cepheid> Right, I need a custom shader for the effect I want.
21:53 <Cepheid> My neighbours must be wondering what in the hells I am listening to.
21:57 * Cepheid is listening to Ievan Polkka.
21:58 <Schism> Ali: this is your karma for joining THE EVIL SIDE.
22:00 * Schism provides Filly_Nightmares wif chikkin burrito!
22:00 * Filly_Nightmares nommifies burrito!
22:00 * Filly_Nightmares sneezies at Schism
22:01 * Schism shrieks! And applies mask and sanitizer to self.
22:01 <Schism> (Nothing big, just wiping down with soapy water.)
22:07 <Schism> Sometimes I write things. Sometimes they're even good.
22:09 * Filly_Nightmares nomfs Schism face
22:13 * Schism provides Filly_Nightmares wif a glass of milq and double-stuffed double-choklit cream cooki!
22:18 <PinkieShy> After I still a little odd about last night that noodles and such.. I think it safe to say.. Never again lol
22:18 <PinkieShy> I'll stick to Campbells chicken noodle soup :3
22:18 <Schism> They vary. Sometimes ramen noodles are worth a nom, sometimes you don't want them. Also, the 'Chunky' Campbells is far better. <<
22:40 *** Joins: jimm (horse@Pony-fr7.dqo.55.45.IP)
22:41 * Cepheid sighs. Looks at the code for the Effect Compiler in MonoGame. Also looks at a Microsoft project under the MIT license, that implements HLSL to <any> compilation.
22:42 <Schism> Welp, the online "Roll Up the Rim" algorithm has been broken. Congratulations, Professor Wallace, you've ruined it for everyone.
22:44 <Schism> I'm tempted to track him down and throw a cup of lukewarm coffee on him, but meh, not worth it.
22:45 <Schism> He didn't abuse it, though, and he only provided the data once the issue had been fixed, so, good on him. He got like $500 worth of free coffee, which is fine, I guess.
22:45 * Cepheid looks at how an MGFX file is constructed, so he can take this other compiler, and use it to output an MGFX file.
22:49 <Cepheid> Fortunately, the format is... sort of well documented?
22:50 <Schism> Oh, I missed this bit: "Wallace says he has been trying to get in touch with Tim Hortons to find out how he can donate his winnings to hospital staff in Montreal where he is on sabbatical."
22:51 <Schism> It's nice to see a true white-hat hacker in this day and age.
22:54 <Cepheid> For the time being I'll just use this hack job solution the MonoGame devs implemented.
22:57 *** Joins: Golden (uid250033@Pony-sd90bk.tooting.irccloud.com)
22:59 <Cepheid> Let's see... SpriteBatch expects... A shader that accepts Vertex Position, Color, Texture Coordinate, and at least one texture. Hum. Simple enough.
23:06 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Radio Plays: The Last Adventure #1 / Wasteland Survival - Alcohol / Color Goddess #7 [ http://tinyurl.com/y7rqpadh ]
23:12 <Lumindia> HuZzAh! A gRaNd AdVeNtUrE iN tHe DeEpEsT pIt Of ThE sEvEn Hells!
23:15 * Cepheid compiles a script. Goes to poke it into code. "This MGFX effect seems to be for a newer version of MonoGame."
23:15 * Cepheid flips a table.
23:37 <PinkieShy> That Ramen last night I'll say this if i didn't say earlier.. It has made me fill full even now i still feel that way
23:38 <PinkieShy> No pain though.. Probably a normal reaction to all that sodium though
23:41 * Cepheid resolves his current problem by building and installing his own build of MonoGame.
23:42 <PinkieShy> Maybe its a bloated feeling.. But either way.. Its weird to me as i am usually veyr hungry by now
23:44 <Lumindia> I have spaghetti
23:44 <Lumindia> :spaghetti:
23:47 <PinkieShy> Mama Luigi's Spaghetti?
23:48 * Lumindia boops the PinkieShy
23:48 * Lumindia shares spaghet with
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