00:06 <ADragonDreaming> It isn't the basic, not really. They're things that are required but the framing is that they are the fruits of faith and devotion.
00:07 <ADragonDreaming> The lack of those fruits is a cue that the tree is rotten.
00:08 *** Joins: Heartbreak (Heartbreak@Pony-gja4ce.mn.comcast.net)
00:09 * Schism - in foxling goo form - noses a small cup of identi-tea over to Heartbreak. Followed by sliming her way off to the corner, because she is unable to do more.
00:09 <Heartbreak> Oooooo, spicy topic.
00:09 <Heartbreak> -Religion-.
00:09 <ADragonDreaming> meanwhile, you might find this interesting to read through, Schism: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3663839
00:09 <Heartbreak> Schism: Oh thanks. I think.
00:10 <Schism> HB: It's kind of fallen by the wayside right now, but I suspect you have many things to speak of with regards thereto.
00:10 <Heartbreak> Heh... Nooooo... You don't want -that-, besides, Jet will soon have to Jet.
00:10 <ADragonDreaming> collection of essays on section 230 and the major defining court case of it, Zeran v. AOL
00:10 <Schism> Oh. I forgot to ask. HB, did Jet get the one-sheet with regards to myself and Cepheid?
00:11 <ADragonDreaming> while, yes, American stuff, but rather formative for the internet at large.
00:11 <Heartbreak> Schism: The what?
00:11 <Starlight_Glimmer> Heartbreak: As long as you believe in me, everything is going to be fine.
00:11 <Schism> The whole 'hey, we're girls' thing.
00:11 <Schism> Rather short for a one-sheet, but that's what it was.
00:11 <Heartbreak> Oh. Yeah. Use of female pronouns update.
00:12 <Heartbreak> Starlight_Glimmer: What about believing things -about- you?
00:12 <Schism> Mmh. HB: And here's the comic in question which led us to this conclusion. https://reallifecomics.com/comic.php?comic=june-29-2020
00:13 <Heartbreak> Ah yes. I remember this comic. So does Jet.
00:13 * Schism nods. Then curls up under a blanket, because warms.
00:14 * Schism carefully sidles out from under the blanket, briefly, to provide HB and Jet with an omelet.
00:15 * Heartbreak both nom the omelet.
00:17 <Starlight_Glimmer> Heartbreak: I have socks and I'm not afraid to use them.
00:18 <Schism> Creamed peas on toast... sounds like a possibility tonight...
00:20 <Heartbreak> Starlight_Glimmer: Three of them? That would make you look like an elephant.
00:22 * Lumindia nibbles on Starlight_Glimmer's tail
00:24 <Schism> "I'll do something simple! Easy to make. No strange ingredients. Creamed peas on toast!"
00:24 * Schism realizes she has a jar of bacon grease on the counter.
00:56 <Finwe> Is it ajar?
01:02 <Schism> Certainly is now. There is no more bacon grease. There is, however, some peas in bacon gravy atop toast, sprinkled with parmesan cheese and celery seed.
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01:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Say Something Nice About Queen Chrysalis [ https://tinyurl.com/yywmr3x3 ]
01:09 <ADragonDreaming> hmrm. What for do.
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01:27 <Cepheid> So, you record a longplay of a game in a series known for having some pretty epic music, and it also has some voiceovers, for a change. Why on Earth would you then ruin it by doing commentary and talking over *ALL* of the game?
01:29 <Ali> Be like Pokemon
01:29 <Ali> And don't give your characters voices, but make their lips flap anyway.
01:29 <Cepheid> Heh.
01:29 <Cepheid> Doesn't resolve the issue of talking over the music.
01:30 <Ali> It does, when there's nothing to compete with the music :P But I get the annoyance.
01:30 <Cepheid> The voiceovers didn't interfere with the music,
01:30 <Cepheid> It was the commentary from the player.
01:31 * Schism falls over laughing at Harry Stiles. "Oh, wow, that dude knows how to rock a dress."
01:31 <Cepheid> The voiceovers worked fine with the music, as it was timed well and such.
01:31 <Cepheid> But a commentator over a game? Guh.
01:31 <Cepheid> I hate it when people talk over a game like that.
01:32 <Schism> Cepheid: I like how when Markiplier did 'The Stanley Parable', he always paused for a few moments whenever the narrator actually spoke, to provide the full... experience... of the STANLEY PARABLE.
01:32 <Cepheid> Yeah, unfortunately here this guy basically talked non-stop.
01:34 <ADragonDreaming> Mark of an experienced LPer.
01:34 <ADragonDreaming> Knowing when to shut up.
01:35 <Finwe> Hmm, https://pastebin.pl/view/25638b3a versus https://github.com/codesections/advent-of-raku-2020/blob/main/thundergnat/aoc2020-02-a-and-b.raku
01:36 <Finwe> This thundergnat fellow still leads me by a couple of lines.
01:36 <Finwe> But I'm getting closer, and he uses higher level programming language.
01:36 * Cepheid gives Schism a cicada.
01:39 * Schism buries it underground for 17 years.
01:42 * ADragonDreaming gnaws on a bone.
01:42 <Cepheid> Sorry ADra, final weeks of classes. Bunch of stuff just popping up, including classes on days I don't normally have classes.
01:42 <ADragonDreaming> No worries.
01:42 <Finwe> !lullaby
01:42 * DerpyBot carries Finwe off to bed
01:42 * DerpyBot tucks Finwe in and hums a lullaby
01:42 <Finwe> !shoo
01:42 * DerpyBot sways from side to side, quietly humming "shoo be doo shoo shoo be doo"
01:43 <Finwe> Good night, everypoyny!
01:43 <Cepheid> Seriously, I have a class not this Friday, but the Friday next week, even though I never registered for any classes on a Friday.
01:43 <Cepheid> Turns out the school is treating that Friday as a "Monday Schedule Day"
01:43 <Cepheid> So anyone with classes on a Monday will have to attend them that Friday.
01:43 * Finwe uses Ali as an extra blanket and falls asleep.
01:43 * ADragonDreaming headtilts.
01:43 <Cepheid> And what do I get out of it? 120 minute exam.
01:43 <ADragonDreaming> For why for?
01:44 <Cepheid> Hell if I know.
01:44 <Cepheid> University being the university, probably.
02:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Nightly Discussion #2361 [ https://tinyurl.com/yy6q2x4h ]
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02:24 <ADragonDreaming> Aha. Last day of winter fest.
02:25 *** Quits: Angeline (Scootaloo@I.Will.Fly.Higher) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
02:27 <Cepheid> Mmm, I'm not worried. I got all the tickets I needed.
02:28 <Cepheid> Plus, December 4th, the festivals will start cycling.
02:28 <ADragonDreaming> Aye.
02:29 <ADragonDreaming> I've just been making a point of clearing the daily limiteds.
02:29 <Cepheid> Ah, right, those.
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02:39 <Cepheid> Spitfire, must you mark quite literally everything that is within headbutting distance?
02:40 * Schism increases the damage of Grip. The regular pistol, AKA the best weapon in the entire game.
02:41 <Schism> Though I really should just kill some enemies with Shatter now, rather than later.
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02:45 <Schism> Finwe. Is "If this happens, we can throw the spoon in the corner" really a thing that folks say?
02:53 <ADragonDreaming> This time they give me an incentive to go to the guiding lands.
02:54 <ADragonDreaming> Let's see... is there a Brute Wyvern I want parts from? Yes, it seems I want Glavenus parts.
02:54 <ADragonDreaming> ...and also Savage Jho. Hum.
03:00 <ADragonDreaming> Well. let's give it a shot. First Savage Jho hunt with Randos.
03:02 <Schism> Hiss Trooper? Huh. Looked like an overmuscled jerk with a chaingun. Am I playing DOOM now?
03:03 * Schism just kept throwing things at it until its shield dropped, then shotgunned it into stunlock.
03:08 <Schism> Ohey. Shotgun isn't the worst. Managed to save a lot of folks with my standard protocol of 'run up to enemy, punch, then shotgun in face.'
03:09 * Schism now gets to decide. "Do I upgrade pistol, or do rotating barrel cannon."
03:09 <Schism> Pistol is good under every circumstance.
03:12 <Schism> And I surely should have lots of fun with Launch. :>
03:12 <Schism> "Launch basic enemies when their health is low." Oh, game. You complete me.
03:13 <Schism> That or just +50% to Launch damage in general.
03:15 <Schism> Hm, fun or optimization. Well, what kind of game would it be if I didn't go for the FUN option?!
03:31 <ADragonDreaming> Alright. Successful solo-Jholo
03:34 <Schism> Oh, that was enjoyable. <3
03:34 * Schism killed one enemy with one brick, one bullet -- then took him as the brick, and carried on for the next five enemies.
03:35 <Schism> There is a certain pleasure to using the infected as ammunition.
03:45 <Schism> "Hahaha... we don't ask where Ahti's been. Or his past. Or his anything. He's just a good old guy. Helps us out now and then, and we help keep things clean."
03:45 <Schism> --/paraphrased
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06:11 * Ali snugs on the Schism if they're still awake.
06:23 * PinkieShy boops Ali
06:23 * Ali curls into PinkieShy instead then
06:40 *** Joins: FruitNibbler (Eogan@Pony-uviqj4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
07:10 <PinkieShy> Might actually look into a weighted blanket..
07:10 <PinkieShy> Having two blankets on my bed now adds a good bit of weight and I sleep good :P
07:59 * Schism grumbles, awakens in a blanket and worms over to the oven to make some meat pies.
08:02 *** Quits: cabbage (cabbage@Pony-aj9mbi.dynamic.sonic.net) (Connection closed)
08:02 <Schism> I hate what I terminally call 'sleep dysjunction'.
08:30 * Dappled doesn't understand meat pies.
08:30 * Dappled also appears.
08:36 *** Joins: ConfusionRift (ConfusionRi@Pony-o07.ofe.132.45.IP)
08:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ConfusionRift
08:36 <ConfusionRift> Hello everypony.
08:37 <Dappled> Hi!
08:37 <NitroTheFurry> Hiya
08:37 * ConfusionRift wavies.
08:38 * Schism grapples ConfusionRift and pulls him into the bush. "HSss!" Now, here are the lyrics. 'With catlike tread'...
08:42 * ConfusionRift gives Schism her crowbar, screwdriver, nightstick, matches, lantern, iron file, and master key back.
08:42 <ConfusionRift> Wait a minute-
08:42 * Dappled looks at that list of items. Starts looking for the laudanum stuff. He'll probably need that.
08:49 * Dappled chugs on laudadunum stuff. Got to keep that sanity meter high.
08:51 * Dappled also makes the decision be an adult and go to bed early so he can wake up early.
08:51 * Dappled is only doing it so he can play videogames for longer before work.
08:51 * ConfusionRift sighs.
08:51 <ConfusionRift> I hate when they schedule me on days I'm not available.
08:52 * ConfusionRift does some consideration.
08:53 <ConfusionRift> ANYWAYS, will probably play something... or not... I dunno. I have been just ending up wondering around in games and not doing much.
09:05 <Schism> Dappled, I should finish that game. Haa...
09:06 *** Quits: Ali (Ali@Pony-blr9tk.4nua.5fca.1702.2600.IP) (Quit: Leaving)
09:08 <Schism> You could play URU. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP7o3i5zrqA
09:08 <Finwe> Schism: Umm, I don't know.
09:09 <Finwe> To throw the spoon into a corner in Finnish means to die.
09:09 <Schism> Sounds about right.
09:09 <Finwe> Also, to throw one's crank, to kick at empty space.
09:10 <Schism> The game Control has a character named Ahti who uses literal translations of Finnish colloquialisms on a regular basis.
09:10 <Schism> He's also regarded by the members of the facility with a certain measure of both respect and fear.
09:10 <Finwe> Ahti is a Finnish name, yes.
09:10 <Finwe> Ahti was the ancient Finnic god of water.
09:11 <ConfusionRift> That... makes more sense.
09:11 * ConfusionRift thuds.
09:11 <Finwe> Lt Cdr ThudRift, Capt Koopz.
09:11 <Finwe> o7
09:11 <Schism> He is a janitor. o3o
09:12 <ConfusionRift> A janitor of what is basically an SCP itself.
09:12 <ConfusionRift> RAdm. Finwe. (salutes)
09:12 <Schism> And everyone's just like, "Um. He's always been here. Please don't piss him off."
09:13 <Schism> And regards the player character, the highest-ranking member of staff, as his assistant. X3
09:14 <ConfusionRift> His side stuff gives good rewards. :P
09:15 * Schism throws some barrels of undetermined medical waste into a giant fire.
09:15 <Schism> "What do you eat? Oh. I'll try to find some volunteers."
09:16 <Koopz> RAdm. Finwe o7
09:16 * ConfusionRift grabs a piece of a wall, and launches it so hard it instantly kills two enemies. Grabs the piece back, and knocks another three dead on its way to him.
09:17 <ConfusionRift> I love Launch. :P
09:17 <Schism> ConfusionRift, don't forget to use your Service Weapon so that you can complete those lovely sidequests.
09:17 <Schism> Launch() is great. X3
09:18 * ConfusionRift grabs a forklift, launches it at a brute, then grabs the brute, and kills another three enemies. "Service what?"
09:19 <Schism> That thing that lets you spray an enemy with flechettes on occasion.
09:22 <ConfusionRift> Seize is also pretty good, but mostly at higher level. At the point when it takes about a second or two.
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09:38 *** Joins: Golden (uid250033@Pony-sd90bk.tooting.irccloud.com)
09:40 * Golden flops.
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10:24 <Schism> Aw, darnit. URU reset all my progress. I guess I'll have to beat the base game again to access all the Ages.
10:24 <Schism> The new Ages included.
10:29 * ConfusionRift goes back to Starbound.
10:29 <ConfusionRift> Curse thsoe guys and their RP'ing.
10:29 <ConfusionRift> *those
10:33 <ConfusionRift> Okay, yep. Seems a mod (likely FU) is causing issues with vanilla weapons doing absolutely no damage.
10:57 * Schism hums. "I'd forgotten how nice this game looks."
11:00 * Cepheid awakens.
11:00 * Cepheid graghs and noms on ConfusionRift's head.
11:00 * Lumindia noms on Schism's head
11:00 * ConfusionRift patpats Cepheid.
11:01 <Cepheid> It's heavily implied that Ahti is [REDACTED];
11:04 <Schism> Right, the Museum has two Ages... Minkata and Jalak, which I have no desire to visit at all.
11:05 <Schism> They're not the worst, but Jalak is a gaming Age, and Minkata requires a sense of direction, whereas I am rather akin to Ryoga Hibeki.
11:07 * Schism finishes her circuit of Ae'gura, and heads to somewhere else. Also, pats Lumindia.
11:09 * Cepheid recites directions from point A to point B through an eldritch horror.
11:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Morning Discussion #2133 [ https://tinyurl.com/y4ayc2vs ]
11:09 <Schism> There it is! New Age!
11:15 <ConfusionRift> Music! Chill! There's nothing going on! Why does it sound like something I would hear while fighting the final boss?
11:21 <Cepheid> "Because you are." *The planet breaks apart and becomes an eldritch tentacled horror.*
11:22 *** Joins: ArchPegasusMichael (Poni@Keep.In.A.Friendly.And.Pony.Place)
11:22 <Schism> They said 'new ages'. I was not expecting a cenotaph. ;-;
11:22 <Schism> But perhaps should have. They're beautiful, though.
11:27 <Cepheid> https://imgur.com/gallery/XRYUtQW
11:27 <Cepheid> That's basically what Tizzy does with me, except she goes after my hands.
11:29 <Schism> ...why is Skyrim trending.
11:30 <Cepheid> Probably announcement of a Skyrim: Super Special Edition for PS5 or something.
11:32 <Cepheid> https://i.imgur.com/xk7AOGA.png
11:35 <Lumindia> It just works!
11:36 <Cepheid> https://i.imgur.com/1UKfbX2.jpeg
11:36 <ConfusionRift> Hah!
11:37 <ConfusionRift> Works as great as a brand new Ford Pinto.
11:48 *** Quits: Golden (uid250033@Pony-sd90bk.tooting.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
11:56 * Cepheid drinks a black, viscous sludge.
11:58 * Cepheid explodes.
12:01 <Cepheid> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZgMSdfwsc0 One of these emotes is not like the other.
12:01 * Cepheid pssshsh. "PRAISE THE SUUUUUUN!"
12:04 * Cepheid renames the song "YMCA" to "PRAISE THE SUM MCA"
12:04 <Cepheid> Er, sun*
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12:13 <Schism> If I were a smart girl, I'd take a nap now before my doctor calls.
12:13 <Cepheid> https://imgur.com/gallery/bvPMub4
12:21 <Cepheid> https://imgur.com/gallery/trme61b Oh my gods WHY? WHY would you keep a pumpkin around for that long?
12:23 <Finwe> Hmm, today we get a map of an integer grid hillside, with # denoting a tree and . denoting clear space. If we start at the top left corner of the slope and slide discretely n steps right and m steps down at a time, into how many trees do we crash?
12:23 <Cepheid> ConfusionRift, quick test question. When cleaning a gun, what is the first thing you absolutely, positively must do?
12:23 <ConfusionRift> Pumpkin? What pumpkin? ...oooooh... Nah man, that was from last year.
12:23 <Cepheid> Finwe: Show me the puzzle.
12:24 <Finwe> And further, given a set of 5 different angles at which slide, what is the product of numbers of crashes for each angle?
12:24 <Finwe> Cepheid: https://adventofcode.com/2020/day/3
12:24 <Schism> Cepheid: Well, first you raise the muzzle of the gun to your eye to determine if there's a round chambered...
12:24 <Cepheid> Schism, you failed. You actually failed so poorly you got a negative score.
12:25 <Schism> I take it that someone shot himself.
12:25 <Cepheid> But since the school doesn't check for underflow or overflow, your negative score because a positive score, giving you the highest mark ever.
12:25 <ConfusionRift> Cepheid: The number one thing, absolute thing, the sure fire thing to do, before even thinking on taking a single piece apart is to make sure it's does NOT have a round chambered. Of course, the mag comes out first, but not all guns have magazines.
12:25 <Finwe> My solution was https://pastebin.com/S9A3XD5K
12:25 <Cepheid> Schism: Exactly.
12:25 <Cepheid> Hhttps://imgur.com/gallery/f0s9TIN Guy was showing how to clean a gun, ends up shooting himself.
12:26 <Schism> (Not to be sexist or anything, but when I hear stories like this, it's always a guy.)
12:26 <Cepheid> Well, let's be honest.
12:26 <Finwe> Preceded by processing the map into a matrix of zeros and ones with sed 's/\./0 /g' 3.dat | sed 's/#/1 /g' > 3m.dat
12:26 <Cepheid> You tend to assume the gender that you biologically are/are treated as for most of your life.
12:27 <ConfusionRift> Oh, saw this one already. This happens way more often than it should, especially with morons.
12:27 <ConfusionRift> The worst part is that you can see the brass.
12:28 <Cepheid> Heh.
12:30 <ConfusionRift> This is one of the reasons why I hate Glocks. You HAVE to press the trigger to disengage the striker, so you can remove the slide. It doesn't defend this case at all. That was just someone being really careless and stupid.
12:32 <Schism> Amongst other things, what manner of scoffwit decides to record a gun-cleaning video in the back seat of his car?
12:32 <Finwe> Schism: I've never heard of sheets doing anything like that.
12:32 <ConfusionRift> That as well.
12:33 <Finwe> Guys, on the other hoof…
12:33 <Finwe> But if you jibe, the guy becomes sheet and vice versa. o3o
12:34 * Schism just doesn't get it.
12:36 <Finwe> Guy is the line that is attached to the pole-side corner of the spinnaker, while sheet is the one attached to the free corner.
12:36 <Cepheid> I have no idea why my allergies have gotten so bad, but man, it's very apparent in my case.
12:37 <Schism> Ah, of course. My apologies, I wasn't thinking of a line about a guy, not a guy line.
12:37 <Schism> was*
12:37 <Finwe> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinnaker#/media/File:Bear_of_Britain_spinnaker.jpg
12:38 <Finwe> The pole is on the port side, meaning that guy is on the same side and the sheet is on starboard side.
12:40 <Finwe> Jibing in srtrong tailwind can be rather interesting.
12:40 <Finwe> *strong
12:40 * Schism eyebrows at someone claiming that North Korean boats delivered voting ballots through a port in Maine. "What a specular grasp of geography this person has. Wait, I mean spectacular. Wait, no I don't."
12:40 <Cepheid> Finwe: Regarding that challenge, after a certain number of iterations of taking the same 3-right, 1-down steps, wouldn't the pattern simply repeat, and thus it'd be possible to create a mathematical formula for giving an exact answer based on the height of the map?
12:41 <Finwe> Cepheid: Yes, I formulated it as https://pastebin.com/S9A3XD5K
12:42 <Finwe> For a set of slopes (1,1), (3,1), (5,1), (7,1) and (1,2).
12:43 <Finwe> (<right>,<down>)
12:44 <Cepheid> Mmm. Oh, I see, you generated a table and used that table afterwards.
12:45 <Finwe> Yes, I downloaded the map into 3.dat and ran sed 's/\./0 /g' 3.dat | sed 's/#/1 /g' > 3m.dat first.
12:45 <Finwe> That way, I get a matrix with 0 denoting free space and 1 denoting a tree.
12:45 <Cepheid> https://imgur.com/gallery/bjQMYg6
12:46 <Finwe> Poor chipmunk.
12:50 <Cepheid> Hum. And to simulate the repeating pattern, your X/Y coordinates are modulo the size of the map. From that, you can generate a table of the expected number of trees you'd encounter along a slope in a map of N by M size. Then that table can be used to quickly calculate the number of trees, regardless of map size.
12:53 <Cepheid> Plus, I was initially working under the assumption that the map would not change, but your solution takes into account different maps.
12:54 <Cepheid> As well as a larger variety of slopes.
12:55 <Finwe> I could take a slope vector as argument to make work with an arbitrary collection of slopes.
12:55 <Finwe> Now the set of slopes is hard-coded into the source.
12:55 <Cepheid> Mmhmm.
12:56 <Cepheid> But according to the challenge, it sounds like there's no reason to deal with anything more than 3, 1.
12:56 <Cepheid> But, that's an assumption. I don't know how AoC works.
12:56 <Finwe> The second part was to do the same for 1,1; 1,5; 1,7 and 2,1 as well.
12:57 <Finwe> and then calculate the product of all five answers
12:57 <Cepheid> Ah.
12:58 <Cepheid> See, I don't see that anywhere on the AoC link you posted, that's why I made that assumption.
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12:58 <Finwe> The second part is opened only after providing correct answer to the first part.
12:58 <Cepheid> Ah.
12:58 <Cepheid> In any case..
12:58 <Cepheid> AoC, nice idea, but doesn't quite meet my standards for "a coding challenge"
12:59 <Cepheid> It certainly involves coding, by the nature of demanding code.
12:59 <Cepheid> But the way that problem and the others I've seen are described, they can be solved without actual coding.
12:59 <Finwe> It's been rather easy so far, but my friends who have participated earlier told me that it gets more difficult towards Christmas.
12:59 <Cepheid> It is more a problem solving challenge/competition. And then simply putting the solution through some code.
13:00 <Cepheid> Or rather, putting the solution *TO* code.
13:00 <Cepheid> One could technically solve the above problem using simple mathematical notation and no code at all.
13:01 <Finwe> True, it's possible to solve the problems some other way, but it's guaranteed to take quite a lot of time.
13:01 <Finwe> You get points for providing your answers earlier than the other users.
13:02 <Cepheid> No, a "coding" competition/challenge to me would be, "Here's the code to an extremely unoptimized algorithm. Write optimized code, using whatever means possible, and achieve the highest performance."
13:02 <Cepheid> While one would assume assembly code would provide the best results, that's not always the case.
13:03 <Cepheid> One would assume then, that assembly code is the best solution here.
13:03 <Cepheid> Er, I just repeated myself there.
13:03 <Cepheid> ANyways..
13:03 <Cepheid> The problem with assembly code is that it's specific to a CPU architecture.
13:04 <Cepheid> Even a simple generational change between binary-compatible CPUs can affect performance.
13:07 <Cepheid> It's the one area where I trust the compiler to handle optimization better than I.
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13:10 <Cepheid> That said, I also have trust issues with said compilers, because of the nature of CPUs in general.
13:12 <Cepheid> You have a particular CPU architecture. But within that architecture, you have a line of CPU products. Each CPU product however, has a different number of cores, and runs at different speeds. And each CPU product will have a different amount of L1/L2/L3 cache assigned to the CPU cores. And some CPU products may even support non-standard functionality like integrated graphics processing.
13:13 <Cepheid> Code written for a high-end CPU product in that line, may actually perform worse on a lower-end CPU product in that same line, because the lower-end CPU's L1/L2/L3 cache size, cache line size, cache replacement policy, and so on, may be slightly different.
13:13 <Finwe> Yup.
13:13 <Cepheid> What may fit in a cache line of a higher-end CPU, may have to be split across multiple cache lines in a lower-end CPU, and with less cache memory, there may be more replacements/evictions and such.
13:13 <Cepheid> So, to get around this problem?
13:14 <Cepheid> Assume that, no matter the actual CPU model, that the end-user is utilizing the lowest-end CPU of the architecture.
13:14 <Cepheid> If it's optimized for that, it'll work well for all CPU models in that line. Though the higher-end CPUs won't necessarily be utilized at their full capacity.
13:16 <Cepheid> Alternatively, if you're using flags like -march with gcc or clang, assume that it's a custom build for a very specific configuration of computer, and check the CPU model against a CPU configuration list, and optimize based on that information.
13:17 <Cepheid> Ah, I love computers and programming.
13:17 <Cepheid> Just wish I could finish something and sell it so I can make money off of my work.
13:18 <Cepheid> Because at the moment I make in the realm of sweet eff-all in money for all the work I do.
13:19 <Cepheid> I have trouble focusing on a given project after a certain amount of time has passed, and even if I didn't, I wouldn't ask for money until it's complete anyways, because it feels like it's dangerous to do so otherwise.
13:19 <Cepheid> Thanks to a large number of people/companies/organizations who have simply taken money from investors and ran away with it, or didn't deliver the final product.
13:20 <Finwe> Games and mobile applications are the easiest to commersialise, thanks to existing global marketing channels like Google Play, Apple Store and Steam.
13:22 <Lumindia> "Relive more of your past adventures with newly added chapters for main scenario quests from Patch 5.1 to Patch 5.3, as well as level 80 job quests and role quests."
13:22 <Lumindia> So are we going to get ALL the job quests, or only the level 80 stuff?
13:24 <Cepheid> It states "as well as level 80 job quests" so that means it's including stuff prior to level 80.
13:24 <Cepheid> The level 80 stuff is "included" in whatever they are adding.
13:26 <Cepheid> Finwe: Indeed, but the issue again is, with my current mentality, I'd work on the games for free, until I am happy that they are sufficient for release and purchase.
13:31 <Cepheid> I am too easily influenced by the negative views of people regarding things like relying on crowdfunding, asking for donations, pre-ordering stuff, and early-release platforms.
13:32 <Cepheid> In other words, I'm too influenced by people wanting to not pay for stuff.
13:33 <Cepheid> In any case, thinking about all this right now is a bad idea.
13:33 <Cepheid> I have schoolwork that needs to get done.
13:35 <Cepheid> Finwe, is it weird that I have a hard time understanding concepts expressed in terms of mathematics, but when it's expressed in terms of programming, I can grasp it easily?
13:36 <Cepheid> Like Matrix Multiplication. I can understand it expressed in terms of mathematics, but I have a much easier time understanding it if it's shown as an O(n^2) algorithm either in psuedocode or some other programming language.
13:39 <Finwe> Matrices are tricky, as they have dual nature.
13:39 <Cepheid> Yeah, but this happens with more than just matrices.
13:40 <Finwe> Either elements of matrix algebra or representations of linear mappings with respect to a given bases between finite-dimensional spaces.
13:41 <Cepheid> A more prominent example would be the sum(∑) operator. The notation for it confuses the hell out of me. But expressed in terms of a function in a language, it is much easier for me to grasp.
13:45 <Cepheid> It's not that I don't like math, but that utilizing two disparate "languages" to describe something is... hard for me to follow.
13:45 <Cepheid> The language of mathematics is not the same as the language of programming/coding.
13:45 <Cepheid> And it also creates all sorts of confusion because terms in mathematics may have different meanings in programming/coding.
13:45 <Finwe> Well, it is a mapping. (n,m,f) maps to the sum of f(i) for n <= i <= m.
13:46 * ConfusionRift flops to sleep.
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13:47 <Cepheid> Is it always explicitly <=, or is the comparison operator defined by something expressed in the sum operator?
13:48 <Finwe> Well, you could write \sum_{x<x_{max}}, for example.
13:49 <Finwe> Meaning that the summation is over all x less than some given value.
13:49 <Cepheid> So the comparison approach can be specified, yes.
13:50 <Finwe> Or you can do \sum_{x\in I}, where I is an index set.
13:51 <Cepheid> Mm.
13:52 <Cepheid> What is the default assumed for summation? n <= i <= m?
13:53 <Finwe> That would be \sum_{i=n}^{m}.
13:53 <Finwe> I ofter write \sum_{i} to denote summation over all feasible i, if there is no ambiguity.
13:53 <Cepheid> It's worth noting I have no idea what that looks like because I am not sure what notation that is. I'm assuming it's some form of Lex-like notation.
13:53 <Finwe> It's LaTeX.
13:54 <Cepheid> I don't really have a lot of experience LaTeX and other notations like it.
13:54 <Cepheid> Because not many courses have called for it.
13:54 <Cepheid> And even if a course would call for it, usually there's a stipulation that I'm not allowed to use LaTeX.
13:54 <Cepheid> Or other such languages.
13:54 <Cepheid> I have to write it out on paper, and take pictures of the paper using a phone, or scan it into a PDF.
13:55 <Finwe> https://www.overleaf.com/learn/latex/Integrals,_sums_and_limits
13:56 <Cepheid> Mmm.
13:56 * Cepheid bookmarks.
13:56 <Cepheid> Might be useful to me in the future if I ever have to express something in mathematics because expressing it in programming would be several times larger.
13:57 <Finwe> LaTeX is the de facto standar of scientific publishing in many fields.
13:57 <Cepheid> I don't really see myself publishing papers.
13:58 <Finwe> Mostly science, though. The humanists and political scientists seem to be fond of Microsoft Word.
13:58 <Cepheid> I am foremost a coder, a code monkey.
13:58 <Cepheid> You give me a problem, I'll make use of existing solutions to solve it to the best of my abilities, and then implement it.
13:58 <Cepheid> I won't go out of my way to create entirely, brand-new solutions.
13:59 <Cepheid> I do like optimizing and creating new solutions, though. Just, I won't do it on company time unless my job depends on doing so.
13:59 <Cepheid> Besides, if I create any new algorithm or unique, optimized solution on company time, it wouldn't be credited to me in this day and age.
14:00 <Cepheid> On top of that, it'd probably be made proprietary, a company secret, etc.
14:00 <Cepheid> If I was going to create a new algorithm, or unique solution to a problem, I'd release it to the public for free use.
14:01 <Cepheid> I'm supposed to be helping improve the world with what I do. Not hunker down, keep secrets, and sue everyone else for using something I created without my permission.
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14:07 <Finwe> That's almost like from our Universities Act. The purpose of a university is to conduct scientific research and teaching based on it, and to educate the youth to serve fatherland and mankind.
14:08 <Cepheid> Here in Canada it's a bit different.
14:08 <Cepheid> In fact, the University's agreements specifically state that anything created on school grounds, for school purposes, becomes the property of the school.
14:09 <Cepheid> You do not retain ownership of what you create on and for the university.
14:12 <Cyan_Spark> Razor the investor
14:12 <Finwe> Cepheid: Oh, really?
14:12 <Cepheid> That seems to be the implication based on the various documents I've read from the university.
14:13 <Finwe> In Finland, anything you invent while being a student or employee at a university is your own property.
14:13 <Cepheid> Don't forget, universities here are run like businesses.
14:13 <Cepheid> Not like institutions where they educate and train people. No, universities are run like a business, wherein the core purpose is to make money.
14:18 <Cepheid> And yes, that does create conflicts. For example, if you want to make more money, you have to draw more students to your university. In order to do that, you have to make the quality of education and training look as good as possible. But doing that costs more money, and cuts into the profits. But a way to get around that is to allow a student to fail a given course multiple times, paying through the roof each time to
14:18 <Cepheid> re-take the course. One would think that this would mean that sooner or later, the student would achieve an acceptable level of education and skill, but...
14:18 <Cepheid> The university encourages professors to fudge marks.
14:19 <Cepheid> The university is concerned more over successful graduation numbers rather than actual quality. After the student leaves the university, whatever happens afterwards has nothing to do with the university. So make enrollment/graduation numbers look high in various ways, while milking your students, is an excellent way to improve your public appearance.
14:21 <Finwe> Mmmhmm.
14:22 <Finwe> The public funding depends of the number of Master's degrees given, which indeed encourages skimping on the quality of teaching and the requirements for passing courses.
14:23 <RazorSharpFang> Hey heys
14:23 <Finwe> Up to 2010, the Finnish universities were state organisations, but now they are foundations that receive public funding.
14:27 <Cepheid> Yeah, unfortunately capitalism. The system won't change easily here.
14:27 <Cepheid> If ever.
14:27 <Cepheid> Which is unfortunate, because tuition inflates faster than every other possible thing that has a price that could inflate.
14:28 <Cepheid> The last time I looked at an estimate, people were claiming the tuition rates inflate 5 times as fast as the cost of a home.
14:28 <RazorSharpFang> Is that in the US or elsewhere?
14:28 <ADragonDreaming> Yes.
14:28 <Cepheid> In Canada and the US.
14:28 <ADragonDreaming> It happens in the US as well.
14:29 <RazorSharpFang> I'm convinced that half of the problem is actually the inability for student loans to die on bankruptcy. Removes all risk.
14:29 <Cepheid> Meanwhile, we're in a pandemic where we can't get hands-on-training, in-class education, or the ability to ask professors questions DURING lectures, and the cost of tuition actually increased a little regardless.
14:29 <ADragonDreaming> Education should be fully publicly funded, with no tuition costs on the part of the student.
14:29 <RazorSharpFang> I maintain that it's immoral to be charging interest on loans that do not die on bankruptcy.
14:30 <ADragonDreaming> I maintain that interest on loans is usury and immoral regardless, but that's me.
14:30 <RazorSharpFang> That's a bigger thing.
14:30 <Finwe> ADragonDreaming: But it is. o3o
14:30 <Finwe> At least here.
14:31 <Cepheid> Yes, we know.
14:31 <ADragonDreaming> I assume you mean the fully publicly funded, thing.
14:31 <ADragonDreaming> In which case, yeah. I know.
14:31 <Cepheid> We were describing the situation here in the US and Canada.
14:31 <ADragonDreaming> Which is why there's evidence that the system works and I would like to import it.
14:31 <ADragonDreaming> So thank you for the prime example. Now if only we could slay the bugbear of "Socialism."
14:32 <RazorSharpFang> I don't know why you want to even use that term at this point.
14:32 <ADragonDreaming> I don't.
14:32 <RazorSharpFang> Why not call it nationalisation instead?
14:32 <ADragonDreaming> That's even worse.
14:32 <RazorSharpFang> Governmentalisation ?
14:33 <ADragonDreaming> If "socialism" is a bugbear of a term, Nationalisation is an ogre.
14:33 <RazorSharpFang> What if we combined them together.
14:33 <Cepheid> Any possible term outside of capitalism has effectively been neutered by propaganda.
14:34 <RazorSharpFang> That said, there's also some interesting answers that people sometimes give to the question "What is capitalism" so maybe it's just terms in general.
14:34 <Cepheid> Propaganda has promoted capitalism as the be-all, end-all solution to all the problems, and promotes the idea that any other solution is invariably theft from you.
14:35 <ADragonDreaming> At this point I think the only way forward is to respond to "But that's socialism" with "Yes... and?"
14:35 <ADragonDreaming> And then insist they define why it's bad and never let go of that bone.
14:35 <RazorSharpFang> Well, I don't think all industry should be under control of the state.
14:36 <ADragonDreaming> Neither do I.
14:36 <ADragonDreaming> But that's not socialism.
14:36 <RazorSharpFang> Which got me banned from "Debate Communism" discord server.
14:36 <RazorSharpFang> Well, then what do you even mean by socialism?
14:36 <ADragonDreaming> I don't mean anything by it.
14:36 <Cepheid> What I don't get is why people are so against providing money to the homeless. The person's never going to not be homeless unless they can clean up their physical appearance, improve their health, get some clean clothes, apply for jobs and go to interviews, etc.
14:36 <RazorSharpFang> Then if you don't mean anything by it how can you also say something isn't socialism?
14:37 <ADragonDreaming> I don't use the term myself. I describe a policy, somebody else labels it as "socialism" as if that's a bad thing, and that's where the term comes in.
14:37 <Cepheid> No employer will look at a person with ragged, worn, dirty clothing and think "This person can be trusted to do the job."
14:37 <ADragonDreaming> I don't propose specific unified ideologies, I only ever propose specific things that I think should be done.
14:37 <RazorSharpFang> Well, if you're not defining it how are you able to say something's not it?
14:37 <Cepheid> But that's because the employer doesn't appear to look past surface appearances.
14:38 <RazorSharpFang> Yeah, people are oft petty. Sad.
14:38 <Cepheid> And recent incidences in the last few months suggest this.
14:38 <ADragonDreaming> Socialism: Noun - "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."
14:38 <ADragonDreaming> the community =/= the state
14:39 <RazorSharpFang> If someone defines it differently are they just wrong?
14:39 <ADragonDreaming> In the interests of ending this particular line of questioning. Yes.
14:39 <Cepheid> In this particular case that comes to mind, I got into a discussion with someone who said she received a stack of resumes from HR to go over. She said that she'd throw out any resumes that required her to log into a website to look at a portfolio, because she doesn't have the time to do that.
14:39 <RazorSharpFang> To be fair, there is the weird idea that there's no inherent meaning in anything and it's all interpreted. I think that's meaningless.
14:40 <ADragonDreaming> I am not a socialist. I am not a communist. I am not a capitalist.
14:40 <RazorSharpFang> Are you a dragon dreaming?
14:40 <ADragonDreaming> Yes.
14:40 <RazorSharpFang> Nice.
14:40 <ADragonDreaming> I have no interest in these grand unified theories of economic etc.
14:41 <ADragonDreaming> What I am interested in is fixing existing problems in a way that actually helps people.
14:41 <RazorSharpFang> Cepheid, I once heard someone say "I chuck out the bottom half of the resumes I receive. I don't want unlucky people working here"
14:41 <Cepheid> I want to make a statement, but the problem is, no matter how I word it, despite the facts, it'll never come out as anything but rude-sounding.
14:41 <ADragonDreaming> Razor: that person is a dick.
14:41 <RazorSharpFang> DM it please
14:42 <RazorSharpFang> ADragonDreaming, I think that's why they're in HR
14:43 <Cepheid> Simplest way to put it without naming names, is that discussing the virtues of socialism, capitalism, and the like, is not a good idea when the other individual depends on capitalism for their line of work.
14:43 <RazorSharpFang> Isn't that just people working in the private sector?
14:44 <Cepheid> Market investing relies on capitalism working the way it does, currently.
14:44 <Cepheid> And people generally don't do investing out of the goodness of their hearts. They are looking for a return.
14:44 <RazorSharpFang> Yeah, I suppose I do have a financial interest in the continuation of some aspects of the status quo.
14:45 <Cepheid> You want the company to make use of the current status quo to minimize losses and increase gains.
14:45 <Cepheid> Or find ways to lower the status quo further to maximize gains further
14:46 <Cepheid> When a company finds way to cut costs, it benefits the company and the investors.
14:46 <Cepheid> Problem is, those cut costs usually come at a price.
14:46 <RazorSharpFang> Not necessarily, since I'm primarily trading options. I profit when people's perception of the underlying isn't in the form "Ditch it now!" or similar.
14:46 <Cepheid> One that isn't usually considered by investors.
14:46 <ADragonDreaming> Often the long-term health of the company is destroyed by cost-cutting.
14:46 <Cepheid> Do you have any investment in Amazon?
14:46 <RazorSharpFang> I do not.
14:46 <Cepheid> Mmm, so much for my example there.
14:46 <RazorSharpFang> Amazon's on my "Nope" list.
14:47 <Cepheid> What about Tesla? I recall you mentioning it.
14:47 <RazorSharpFang> I own 1 share of Tesla. Big plays.
14:47 <Cepheid> Still.
14:47 <Cepheid> Tesla is known to violate the rights of it's workers on a regular basis.
14:47 <ADragonDreaming> Was it Tesla or Amazon that employed the Pinkertons recently?
14:47 <Cepheid> Amazon.
14:48 <ADragonDreaming> or, well, was revealed to have done so.
14:48 <RazorSharpFang> If they've slighted their workers, then their workers deserve compensation.
14:48 <Cepheid> Here's the problem.
14:48 <Cepheid> Their workers aren't going to get compensation.
14:48 <RazorSharpFang> That's not good.
14:48 <Cepheid> When you go up against a company that has the backing and funding it does, like Amazon or Tesla, you don't stand a chance in hell, usually.
14:49 <Cepheid> Because they have the money to buy the best lawyers in the world.
14:49 <Cepheid> You? You make minimum wage. How are you going to pay for a good lawyer?
14:49 <Cepheid> And if you fight, the company can, and will, use loopholes in the legal system to justify firing you.
14:50 <Cepheid> Loopholes are the golden egg-laying chicken for companies to maximize profits.
14:50 <Cepheid> It's how they get away with what they do.
14:50 <RazorSharpFang> That sounds like an issue worth addressing in legislation.
14:50 <Cepheid> Gooooood luck.
14:50 <Cepheid> Have you heard of this thing called lobbying? Bribery?
14:50 <ADragonDreaming> We're trying.
14:50 <RazorSharpFang> Ah yes. The whole money in politics thing.
14:50 <ADragonDreaming> Regulatory capture is a problem.
14:50 <Cepheid> Where you pay politicians to hold a stance?
14:50 <RazorSharpFang> I still can't believe that's legal.
14:51 <Finwe> Beginning from next year, bribery will no longer be tax-deductible in Switzerland. o3o
14:51 <Cepheid> See, the thing is, it's cheaper to pay a one-time lump sum to get a politician to lobby against something, than it is to let that something pass.
14:51 <Cepheid> Because that something usually involves a long-term investment that cuts into profits.
14:52 <RazorSharpFang> I still maintain that they shouldn't be able to do that.
14:52 <Cepheid> The worst part is, I am not an invester. I am not a manager. I am not a CEO. And I can think of all sorts of legal methods of cutting costs that involve questionable ethics and abusing the people under me.
14:53 <Cepheid> The worst part is, companies get caught sometimes.
14:53 <Cepheid> They get a slap on the wrist, which usually amounts to eff-all in costs, and told "don't do it again."
14:53 <Cepheid> But then they do it again, and this time, they take more precautions to not get caught.
14:54 <ADragonDreaming> Fines need to be on the order of "100% of the money made/saved by the action, with the usual punitive amount on top"
14:54 <Cepheid> Amazon got caught spying on it's employees to stop unionization and such.
14:54 <ADragonDreaming> And then criminal liability for the executives responsible.
14:54 <Cepheid> Now they're going to employ tactics that are even more cautious, and allow them to do the same without getting caught the next time.
14:54 <RazorSharpFang> ADragonDreaming, agreed, but how can that get passed in the current environment?
14:55 <ADragonDreaming> By screaming at every elected official non-stop.
14:55 <Cepheid> Well, a good starter would be to discourage investing in companies with known history of civil rights violations among other things.
14:55 <RazorSharpFang> What would you scream?
14:55 <ADragonDreaming> I dunno right now.
14:56 <Cepheid> Just because they "turned over a new leaf" doesn't mean they won't do something questionable again.
14:56 <Cepheid> Assume that, once a company has been caught violating or breaking the law, that it cannot be trusted in the future to not violate or break the law.
14:56 <ADragonDreaming> It might be as simple as "what are you doing to address this nonsense?"
14:56 <RazorSharpFang> Well, shareholders are entitled to the floor and to contact the executives and board-members.
14:57 <RazorSharpFang> "floor" being during an AGM say
14:57 <ADragonDreaming> Yeah... I don't trust shareholders.
14:57 <ADragonDreaming> In the aggregate.
14:57 <RazorSharpFang> I've attended one or two AGMs in person so far (there hasn't been any in-person recently because of covid)
14:57 <Cepheid> When a company violates the law, gets caught doing it, and the shareholders don't dump their stock in that company, what does that tell you about the shareholders?
14:58 <RazorSharpFang> They're either not paying attention or don't care about that.
14:58 <Cepheid> I'm more inclined to think the latter.
14:58 <Cepheid> There is very little chance that a person who is investing is not paying attention.
14:58 <Cepheid> Every day, you wake up and mention that you're paying attention to stocks.
14:59 <RazorSharpFang> Yeah. To stock pricing.
14:59 <RazorSharpFang> Remember that I'm primarily trading stock-options. I have very few shares, if any at all in the companies I'm trading in/on/
15:00 <Cepheid> What is the difference between a stock-option and a share in a company?
15:01 <RazorSharpFang> A stock-option is a contract/agreement to buy or sell (depending on the contract and who's buying/selling) shares of the optionable company at the agreed upon price at or before the option expiration date.
15:01 <RazorSharpFang> Stock-option holders are not entitled to dividends, not entitled to vote in nor participate in AGMs, are not permitted to engage in SPPs, Notes or similar.
15:02 <Cepheid> You are still providing money to the organization either way though, are you not?
15:02 <Cepheid> With an expected return?
15:02 <RazorSharpFang> Stock-option holders do not provide money to the company.
15:02 <RazorSharpFang> The company isn't actually involved in this process at all.
15:02 <RazorSharpFang> Stock-option holders do not get dividends.
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15:04 <RazorSharpFang> That said, I'm also primarily a seller of options, which makes me short options.
15:04 <Cepheid> I... have a conflict I am trying to word and resolve.
15:05 <RazorSharpFang> With options you can make money as a company's stock price dives into oblivion.
15:05 <RazorSharpFang> This is called a bearish position.
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15:06 <RazorSharpFang> The primary purpose of options contracts is to provide hedging and speculation services to other investors and to provide liquidity to the market. This is different to being a shareholder of a company.
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15:07 <Cepheid> So, you're acting as a middleman/middlewoman between an investor and a target company? Why would you even do that?
15:08 <RazorSharpFang> Because I provide hedging services, I get paid in premium regardless of whether the stock price changes or not.
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15:09 <RazorSharpFang> Depending on the contracts I have sold, I will either be required to buy shares at the agreed upon price, or sell shares at the agreed upon price if they exercise that contract.
15:09 <Cepheid> The reason I ask "why would you even do that?" is because I see some considerable risk involved.
15:09 <Cepheid> And not in the sense that you're thinking.
15:10 <RazorSharpFang> Yes. There is considerable risk involved. For instance, selling a call without owning the underlying shares has "unlimited risk"
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15:12 <Cepheid> I see the problem from a reputational perspective. If Investor A(hereon just 'A') invests in Company B('B') through you, and then it is discovered that B has done something morally wrong and objectionable, and A does not sell their share to distance themselves from B, then who gets the negative rap with respect to that share? A, or you?
15:12 <Cepheid> Who is listed as the owner of that share?
15:13 <RazorSharpFang> Through me? That's not how this works.
15:13 <RazorSharpFang> Investor A still owns the shares even if they've bought put contracts from me.
15:13 <Cepheid> And yet, you are the one placing the purchase orders for them, so they are working through you, are they not?
15:14 <RazorSharpFang> I am not the one placing orders for them. That's not how this works.
15:14 <Cepheid> Then I have misunderstood what the contract to buy or sell shares in a company is about.
15:14 <RazorSharpFang> Also, these stock-options are also traded on exchanges just like shares are.
15:14 <Cepheid> Because usually, a contract is with you and someone else. So the assumption here was that the stock-option is an agreement to buy or sell a share based on some criteria, on behalf of someone else.
15:15 <RazorSharpFang> In this case, the option BUYER has the OPTION to buy/sell shares at the agreed upon price at or before the expiration date.
15:16 <RazorSharpFang> The option SELLER has the OBLIGATION to buy/sell shares at the agreed upon price at or before the expiration date but only when asked by the option buyer.
15:16 <Cepheid> So it's optional. If the stock doesn't reach the agreed criteria by the set date, you simply don't do it?
15:16 <Cepheid> What happens to the money in that case?
15:16 <RazorSharpFang> If it's not profitable for the option buyer to exercise, then the contract expires worthless and ceases to exist.
15:17 <Cepheid> I...
15:17 <RazorSharpFang> That is my win case.
15:17 <Cepheid> This all makes no logical sense to me.
15:17 <RazorSharpFang> We can walk through an example if you want.
15:17 <Cepheid> No, I'd rather not.
15:17 <RazorSharpFang> It is complicated though, that much is obvious when I'm trying to explain it.
15:17 <Cepheid> Just answer the following question: Is the money meant to be used for the purchase of the stock paid up front when you accept a contract? If so, if the contract expires, do you refund the money?
15:17 <Cepheid> questions*
15:18 <RazorSharpFang> There is no refund. I keep the amount paid on the contract (called the premium) regardless of whether they exercise or not. It's mine to keep no matter what.
15:18 <Cepheid> Which raises further questions about the people who use stock-options now.
15:19 <RazorSharpFang> But the premium is not and is separate from the funds required to buy/sell the shares in the first place.
15:19 <Cepheid> Still has all sorts of problems involved that I can see, even taking that into consideration.
15:20 <RazorSharpFang> It's mostly used for hedging and speculation.
15:20 <Cepheid> I still wouldn't want to get involved in it. With the current state of things, as described above, investing into companies, or being involved in some way of investing, being a middle-person or no, is...
15:21 <Cepheid> It's not something I'd be able to resolve with my ethics.
15:21 <RazorSharpFang> It's really not being a middle-man, but I wouldn't recommend getting into options without a very good understanding of the obligations you're setting yourself up for.
15:21 <RazorSharpFang> "Unlimited Risk"
15:22 <Cepheid> Sorry, no matter how you describe it, I can't see working with stock-options as somehow being a middleman/middlewoman in between an investor and a company. You are being paid to do something for someone else. It may not always go in their favour, but you are still doing something for someone else.
15:22 <Cepheid> That makes you a middleman/middlewoman.
15:22 <RazorSharpFang> There have been a few horror-stories about someone selling the wrong kind of contract and blowing up their account.
15:22 * Cyan_Spark glazes over chat
15:22 <RazorSharpFang> It's more like a V
15:23 <Cyan_Spark> I trade stocks, Razor trades options X3
15:23 <Cyan_Spark> Stocks you can hold, but with options, you have to beware of the theta gang
15:23 * RazorSharpFang is a theta-gang member
15:23 <ADragonDreaming> It's less about that, than about the ethics of investing at all.
15:24 <Cepheid> As I stated, companies have been time-and-time again caught doing questionable and illegal things, and yet they are still listed on stock market systems.
15:24 <Cepheid> They proclaim to turn over a new leaf when it happens, but then a while down the road, it happens again.
15:24 <ADragonDreaming> "Duty to shareholders" and "the stock market" are used to excuse all manner of reprehensible behavior, to the point where I have started viewing the whole stock market as suspect.
15:24 <Cepheid> How many violations does it take before a company should be delisted or go under?
15:25 <Cepheid> Of course, arguably I am still investing anyways.
15:25 <RazorSharpFang> That's up for the courts (and SEC) to decide.
15:25 <Cepheid> I buy products from companies. I use their services.
15:25 <ADragonDreaming> Is it, though?
15:25 <RazorSharpFang> SEC determines listings and delistings, definitely.
15:25 <Cepheid> Do they actually determine it? Or do bribes determine it?
15:26 <ADragonDreaming> But they don't determine whether you will continue to trade with that company.
15:26 <Cepheid> Any organization involved in overwatch can itself be corrupted.
15:26 <RazorSharpFang> That's a good question. If the SEC is corrupted, that might bring down the whole exchange.
15:26 <Cepheid> Probably not.
15:26 <ADragonDreaming> Amazon is still listed.
15:26 <ADragonDreaming> That indicates an issue.
15:26 <Cepheid> Indeed.
15:27 <RazorSharpFang> Have there been criminal filings about the incidents you mention?
15:27 <Cepheid> Amazon has been repeatedly violating the rights of it's workers, and employing tactics that probably violate international regulations as well.
15:27 <ADragonDreaming> AKA I can't trust the SEC to be a good moral compass.
15:27 <Cyan_Spark> oh no D:
15:27 <Cepheid> Again, I raise my earlier point.
15:27 * Cyan_Spark hides from RazorSharpFang
15:27 <Cepheid> One cannot file a lawsuit if one does not have the money to do so.
15:28 <Cepheid> And, do you really think that one person filing a lawsuit against a company as large as Amazon, will succeed?
15:28 <RazorSharpFang> I didn't think a criminal charge was a lawsuit, isn't lawsuit used more for civil disputes than criminal?
15:28 <ADragonDreaming> Plus, a lot of this simply isn't "criminal" in law. Wage theft, despite being a form of theft, the most common form of theft, is not a criminal offense.
15:28 <Cepheid> Right, right.
15:28 <Cepheid> Well, we know they're violating the law. But criminal charges are never laid, for reasons unknown.
15:28 <RazorSharpFang> ADragonDreaming, that's yet another legislative inadequacy.
15:28 <ADragonDreaming> Wage theft gets litigated in civil courts.
15:28 <ADragonDreaming> Indeed.
15:28 <ADragonDreaming> So again I can only scream at legislators to do something about it.
15:28 <RazorSharpFang> Maybe Biden can do something about this during his presidency.
15:29 <Cepheid> Also, the larger a company, the longer things take to resolve.
15:29 <Cyan_Spark> RazorSharpFang: What is your guidance today
15:29 <Cepheid> So, incidents from years ago may still not yet be resolved.
15:29 <ADragonDreaming> But more directly I can just straight up refuse to have anything to do with companies that don't pay their workers.
15:29 <ADragonDreaming> (such as Tesla)
15:29 <Cepheid> Allowing the company to continue acting, until such a time that the incident is resolved.
15:29 <RazorSharpFang> Cyan_Spark, I have sold puts (bullish) on Bank of America Corp (BAC)
15:29 * Cyan_Spark nods
15:30 <RazorSharpFang> Blood Alcohol Concentration
15:30 <Cepheid> You can't just shut down a company at the first claim of wrongdoing. A full investigation has to be done, and until that investigation is done, it is... questionable as to whether or not a company should continue to perform.
15:30 <Cepheid> On one hand, if you stop the company, and find no wrongdoing was done, how do you compensate for lost productivity and such?
15:31 <RazorSharpFang> And even then, there's a lot of legal proceedings to go through if you actually want to wrap a company up. The paperwork is massive.
15:31 <Cepheid> On the other hand, the company can continue to perform, make profits, and by the time the wrongdoing is confirmed, the amount of money to pay would be less than the profits, probably.
15:31 <RazorSharpFang> How long does company liquidation usually take? The bigger ones may take more than a year.
15:32 <Cepheid> Also, usually when a fine is levied, I don't think it's an admission of criminal wrongdoing. Just "You did something wrong, pay up for it, and we'll let it go."
15:32 <RazorSharpFang> The big ones usually come with criminal penalties don't they?
15:33 <Cepheid> Probably. I haven't investigated it extensively.
15:33 <Cepheid> But there are all sorts of problems involved anyways.
15:33 <Cepheid> Again, bribery comes into play.
15:33 <RazorSharpFang> Imagine how long wrapping up Walmart would take.
15:34 <ADragonDreaming> It takes an extremely high bar to get criminal proceedings involved.
15:34 <Cepheid> Ultimately, I think beauracracy in general is also contributing to the problem. People are efficient, they want to take the quickest, easiest path. As you say, wrapping up a company and shutting it down involves a lot of paperwork. It probably also involves a lot of paperwork to file criminal charges, among other things.
15:35 <ADragonDreaming> Consider the Wells Fargo scandal.
15:35 <Cepheid> The overall problem in resolving all of this is that you'd have to spend years investigating everything just to figure out what the exact problem is.
15:35 <ADragonDreaming> Look at how many criminal charges were filed there.
15:35 <RazorSharpFang> I'm not familiar with that one.
15:35 <Cepheid> And by the time you're done, the system will have changed through lobbying.
15:35 <ADragonDreaming> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_Fargo_account_fraud_scandal
15:35 <Cepheid> And despite all that, Wells Fargo is still active.
15:36 <ADragonDreaming> And the CEO... resigned. Oh no.
15:36 <RazorSharpFang> is that case still ongoing?
15:36 <ADragonDreaming> How sad for him.
15:36 <Cepheid> I don't think it is anymore.
15:37 <ADragonDreaming> I believe it was all concluded by 2018. It's a case where more was done than most...
15:37 <RazorSharpFang> Then were criminal filings actually done and completed?
15:37 <ADragonDreaming> but again, the people who were ultimately responsible did not get really personally damaged.
15:37 <Cepheid> Yeah, the case was resolved. Wells Fargo was fined $100 million for "widespread illegal practice of secretly opening unauthorized accounts."
15:37 <ADragonDreaming> It was all civil, from what I can see.
15:37 <Cepheid> That said, after something like that..
15:38 <Cepheid> Why would you even let the company continue to perform?
15:38 <ADragonDreaming> or at least, no individual criminal charges that I am aware of were made.
15:38 <Cyan_Spark> RazorSharpFang: Should I convert more USD for more plays or wait for another dip before doing so?
15:38 <RazorSharpFang> ` ... brought the total to nearly $3 billion. ` at least this is no small amount.
15:38 <Cyan_Spark> Shouldn't we be expecting USD/AUD to become cheaper due to inflated USD
15:38 <RazorSharpFang> Cyan_Spark, That's a good question actually. The AUD is nearing a high right now. Not sure if it'll continue in our favour.
15:39 <Cyan_Spark> The US deficit tripled or something
15:39 <Cyan_Spark> That means there'd be a lot more USD floating around somewhere
15:39 <Cepheid> The total market value of Wells Fargo as of today is $121 billion.
15:39 <Cyan_Spark> Most of it is in stocks I guess?
15:39 <Cepheid> $3 billion is nothing.
15:39 <RazorSharpFang> I've converted most of my AUD to USD because my obligations are measured in USD, so it's important to ensure that I can meet my obligations regardless of exchange-rate.
15:40 <RazorSharpFang> Cepheid, hang on, is that market-capitalisation?
15:40 <Cepheid> Yes. I'm probably using the wrong value here, admittedly.
15:40 <RazorSharpFang> Yeah, market cap is not what you want to use.
15:40 <Cepheid> I'm still pretty sure it's market worth is much greater than $3 billion.
15:40 <RazorSharpFang> Yeah, but again market worth is not the right measure to use.
15:41 <Cepheid> Let's see...
15:41 <RazorSharpFang> You're better off looking at its equity.
15:41 <RazorSharpFang> 187.146 billion
15:41 <Cepheid> Total assets is $1.927 trillion. Total equity is $187.146 billion, according to wikipedia.
15:42 <Cepheid> Which still means that $3 billion is barely going to impact them.
15:42 <RazorSharpFang> Well remember that if they're going to pay that amount, they need that amount in CASH. Not other financial instruments.
15:42 <Cepheid> What about credit?
15:43 <RazorSharpFang> If you have to leave a position immediately, you're always getting worse prices than if you left it at your own leisure.
15:43 <RazorSharpFang> I don't think the gov takes credit?
15:43 <RazorSharpFang> Unless you can pay your income taxes on your credit-card.
15:43 <RazorSharpFang> Wait, that's different. That's someone else's credit not yours.
15:44 <RazorSharpFang> Say, if you have to sell everything right-now, you're going to get worse prices than if you sold things taking time to get the best price.
15:45 <Cepheid> The problem here is that I don't think the amount of money listed is directly cash. Reimbursement can come in many forms.
15:45 <Cepheid> As a result, it's probably possible that the $3 billion is still next to nothing for the company.
15:45 <RazorSharpFang> Oh? You can pay fines in forms other than the currency?
15:45 <RazorSharpFang> Maybe the tax office takes gold.
15:46 <Cepheid> There have been attempts by companies to get people to accept store credit or other forms of payment in leui of cash.
15:46 <Cepheid> And they are legally allowed to do this.
15:46 <Cepheid> And if you, as a consumer, accept this alternative payment, then their debt to you is legally repaid.
15:46 <Cepheid> Because the agreement was that you accepted it in leui of cash.
15:46 <Cyan_Spark> If the US goes into the double-dip recession will foreign funds flow into the country, attracted by low stock prices, or will there be a net outflow of capital from the US, due to investors seeking better returns in foreign stocks?
15:47 <RazorSharpFang> Right, but thankfully they also can't force you to accept these. Also neither can they demand non-cash assets INSTEAD of cash.
15:47 <Cepheid> No, but think of being an average citizen.
15:47 <RazorSharpFang> Am I not an average citizen?
15:47 <Cepheid> Do you know all your rights when it comes to compensation regarding something that affected you?
15:47 <Cepheid> Do you know that you can refuse their suggested payment, and demand cash?
15:47 <RazorSharpFang> I don't know everything in general.
15:48 <RazorSharpFang> But you don't have to. You can read the legislation or google it.
15:48 <Cepheid> What if you feel pressured?
15:48 <Cepheid> As in, they tell you "You either accept this now or get nothing?"
15:49 <RazorSharpFang> That's obviously illegal. Liabilities like that don't expire suddenly.
15:49 <Cepheid> Heh.
15:49 <Cepheid> And tell me, if you're being pressured, would you feel you had the time to check the legality of it?
15:49 <Cepheid> The problem is that there are all sorts of tactics, legal and illegal, that can be applied to minimize losses.
15:51 <RazorSharpFang> I also maintain that people should be free to wear bodycams whereever they go and have video and audio submitted in court as evidence.
15:51 <RazorSharpFang> That's a controversial one.
15:52 <Cepheid> The problem on my side versus yours is that we seem to have a differing view of how infallible and unbreakable the law is.
15:52 <RazorSharpFang> "They can't do that. That's illegal!"
15:52 <Cepheid> My observation of your commentary suggests that you think that everyone and everything is beholden to the law, no exceptions.
15:53 <RazorSharpFang> Do people not follow the law by default?
15:53 <Cepheid> It is assumed, but not guaranteed.
15:53 <Cepheid> Especially here in North America
15:53 <RazorSharpFang> Then am I wrong to assume that people are generally following the law?
15:53 <Cepheid> In your country, perhaps not. But not in Canada or the US.
15:53 <RazorSharpFang> Then what is Canada and/or the US doing wrong?
15:54 <Cepheid> Lobbying, corruption, lack of oversight come to mind.
15:54 <Cepheid> People basically being paid to look away, or distract the public.
15:54 <RazorSharpFang> Are they things that are not happening here?
15:55 <Cepheid> I don't understand how you can trust the goodwill of a company that has demonstratedly proven that it cannot be trusted.
15:55 <Cepheid> It's already broken various rules, regulations and laws, why would you expect it to not continue to do so in favour of protecting itself from losses?
15:55 <RazorSharpFang> I always believe in second chances.
15:55 <Cepheid> I do not.
15:55 <RazorSharpFang> I maintain that there is nothing anyone should ever be able to do that makes them beyond redemption ever.
15:56 <Cepheid> Especially since we have given second, third, fourth and fifth and nth chances to many of these companies, and they keep getting caught.
15:56 <Cepheid> And then they get a slap on the wrist, and we go about our usual routine.
15:56 <Cepheid> At what point do you say "enough is enough"?
15:56 * Cepheid takes a deep breath.
15:56 <Cepheid> Do you want an example of an egregious violation of human rights that's happening here in Canada?
15:57 <Cepheid> And the government's not doing anything about it?
15:57 <Cepheid> And it's not with respect to the general public, so people like you and me.
15:57 <RazorSharpFang> Anyone individually will have different points. But if we're going through the legal system, then that's a different matter. I'm noticing a lot of governmental inadequacies.
15:57 <Cepheid> Up north, in Igloolik, Iqaluit, and other places, we have native tribes continuing to live in their native lands, fine and dandy.
15:57 * RazorSharpFang yawnies. "Midnight for me"
15:57 <RazorSharpFang> Is this about the oil pipeline?
15:58 <Cepheid> Now, they are being supplied with food by companies down here further South.
15:58 <Cepheid> Oh, no no no.
15:58 <Cepheid> This is more hilarious, in a saddening way.
15:58 <RazorSharpFang> Oh fantastic.
15:58 <Cepheid> See, companies are being pressured to supply resources, typically food, to these communities.
15:58 <Cepheid> And they do.
15:58 <Cepheid> Except, here's the problem.
15:58 <Cepheid> All of the food being sent north, is the stuff that's either expired, has passed some "good by" date, or just plain isn't selling.
15:59 <Cepheid> So aged fruits and vegetables, cans of soup with botulism, and the like.
15:59 <Cepheid> This legally still counts and qualifies as food for consumption.
15:59 <Cepheid> So, the government just... ignores that it's happening.
15:59 <Cepheid> And the best part?
15:59 <Cepheid> Do you know how much a bag of chips, a SMALL stale bag of chips costs up in Igloolik?
15:59 <Cepheid> $15 CAD.
15:59 <Cepheid> That same bag wouldn't even be $1 CAD here in Ottawa.
16:00 <Cepheid> And on top of it all?
16:00 <Cepheid> The same company selling these products?
16:00 <Cepheid> Here's the fun bit.
16:00 <Cepheid> Two years ago, my mother went on a trip to Igloolik
16:00 <Cepheid> To visit my sister living up there. During the colder months, so snow, ice, etc is everywhere.
16:01 <Cepheid> Two days in, my mother walked out of the company's storefront at that location, and slipped going down the stairs, breaking her leg.
16:01 <RazorSharpFang> Ah ice?
16:01 <Cepheid> The first thing that the storefront did, instead of going out and checking up on her, or asking if she was okay?
16:01 <Cepheid> They dragged a bag of salt out, an started salting around my mother, and then taking photographic evidence.
16:01 <RazorSharpFang> Why salt?
16:01 <Cepheid> We have a lawsuit against the company, and their evidence is this photographic evidence of them having salt on the ice, in an attempt to discredit my mother.
16:02 <Cepheid> Of course, we have an *ENTIRE* community's word against the store, so...
16:02 <Cepheid> But it's also native population. The way our country treats natives, their word may as well be worth that of a common drunk. So, the fight is being problematic.
16:02 <Cepheid> As for why salt..
16:02 <Cepheid> Salt melts ice.
16:02 <RazorSharpFang> I thought it only does that if it's a few degrees below freezing.
16:03 <Cepheid> Basically, they tried to get rid of the ice, and show that they had in fact been de-icing.
16:03 <Cepheid> They never once asked if my mother was okay.
16:03 <Cepheid> They are still fighting us, and refusing to admit any wrongdoing.
16:03 <Cepheid> It's been two years since that lawsuit started.
16:03 <RazorSharpFang> How have the proceedings not wrapped up yet?
16:04 <Cepheid> Not yet.
16:04 <Cepheid> Still fighting.
16:04 <Cepheid> And my parents are starting to waver on the fight, because it's taking so long.
16:04 <Cepheid> Welcome to North America! Where your attempts to fight any large company will be stonewalled until you give up!
16:04 <RazorSharpFang> That's absolutely ridiculous. How on earth could a lawsuit take that long?
16:05 <Cepheid> Aaaahahahahaha- Fuck this continent.
16:05 <Cepheid> How do you think?
16:05 <RazorSharpFang> Does Canada use common law or civil law?
16:05 <Cepheid> They have the money to pay lots of lawyers to find legal loopholes in the law, among other things, to stonewall, discredit, or get cases thrown out.
16:06 <Cepheid> Other examples of egregious failures to employ the law include recent problems in the US spurring the BLM movement and antifacism movement.
16:07 <Cepheid> Hell, in fact, there's even speculation that Trump may just pardon himself so he can avoid all of the legal rammifications of the crap he's done.
16:07 <Cepheid> The law isn't infallible. It can be bent, twisted, broken, and rent.
16:07 <RazorSharpFang> If that can actually happen what do you even do?
16:07 <Cepheid> And people and organizations with the money, will do just that.
16:08 <Cyan_Spark> Oh look the DOW hit 30k and is staying there
16:08 <RazorSharpFang> If that's the case when why shouldn't everyone ignore the laws when it's convenient to them and the devil take the hindmost?
16:08 <Cepheid> I recall a report in the last couple of months wherein the IRS admitted that it's easier to go after poor people than the rich.
16:09 <Cepheid> And thus, they audit the poor more than the rich as a result.
16:09 <Cepheid> When the lower classes ignore the law, the consequences are worse.
16:09 <Cepheid> Because we can't pay our way out of it.
16:09 <Cepheid> We can't finance drawn-out legal battles that make the cost versus reward worth it.
16:10 <Cepheid> Er, not worth it*
16:11 <Cepheid> If I screwed over the CRA, there is no way I could fight a legal battle such that the cost the CRA pays to get what they want out of me would exceed what they would get from me.
16:11 <RazorSharpFang> Shouldn't court costs also be paid in addition to penalties?
16:12 <RazorSharpFang> I know that happened in the lawsuit between Carl Benjamin and
16:12 <RazorSharpFang> Akilah Hughes
16:12 <RazorSharpFang> How did that newline get in there... ?
16:13 <RazorSharpFang> I think that should be standard, if indeed that it actually costs anything to file legal proceedings.
16:14 <Cepheid> Are the wages/salary of an employed lawyer covered under "legal fees and expenses"?
16:14 <Cepheid> You didn't retain a lawyer through hiring an outside party, in such a case.
16:14 <Cepheid> Would their wages and salary be considered part of the "legal fees and expenses"?
16:15 <RazorSharpFang> Not specifically legal fees, but you can claim that in some cases. I've seen that before. Not always permitted by the judge though.
16:15 <Cepheid> Therein lies part of the problem.
16:15 <RazorSharpFang> Usually involving self-employed people.
16:15 <Cepheid> Good lawyers can find ways of getting their client out of having to pay fees, as well.
16:16 <Cepheid> So, in the end, it can become a negative outcome, no matter what say, the CRA or IRS does.
16:16 <Cepheid> Plus..
16:16 <Cepheid> Because of stuff like offshore bank accounts..
16:17 <RazorSharpFang> That sounds like yet another legislative failure.
16:17 <Cepheid> The actual amount of money you get out of the target may be far less, because if say, the costs are based on assets within the country of question, and all the defendent's assets are stored outside of the country..
16:19 *** Quits: Angeline (Scootaloo@I.Will.Fly.Higher) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
16:19 <Cepheid> This is how, say, a president can be both rich and poor at the same time. You hide your assets in countries where the US can't get to them, and when you need money, you simply draw money from *THOSE* places, instead of local-to-country banks and such.
16:19 <Cepheid> So, of course, why doesn't your average citizen do that?
16:20 <Cepheid> Probably because there's usually exorbitant fees involved. But for the ultra-rich, those fees are drops in a bucket, and totally worth it.
16:20 <RazorSharpFang> May have minimum asset requirements or large fees - yeah
16:20 *** Joins: Death (Deathagor@Pony-2iuevm.res.rr.com)
16:20 <Cepheid> $15000 a month sounds great to store a few million.
16:20 <RazorSharpFang> Given the large amount of potential tax-money, wouldn't governments set up a tax agreement with that other country?
16:20 <Death> hi im back
16:20 <Cepheid> Probably still amounts to less than what you'd pay in taxes in your own country, too.
16:21 <Cepheid> Razor.
16:21 <Cepheid> Have you seen how the relations with the US have been these last four years?
16:21 <Cepheid> The US is demanding money from allies.
16:21 <RazorSharpFang> Isn't that for the military thing it's doing?
16:22 <Death> i need to ask. How do I become a channel successor. Sorry for interrupting by the way
16:22 <Cepheid> They also want to change trade agreements primarily so that they benefit and the rest of the countries don't.
16:22 <Cepheid> You don't become a channel successor by asking, Death.
16:22 <Cepheid> In fact, that's a good way to ensure it never happens. Just saying.
16:22 <Death> not for this channel just asking
16:23 <Cepheid> It applies to most, if not all channels.
16:23 <Cepheid> If your case is more "How do I take control of a channel from someone who no longer visits that channel" that's a different case.
16:23 <Death> Iwas just trying to understand it
16:23 <Death> that is also a good question
16:24 <Death> my old channel
16:24 <Cepheid> Otherwise, general rule of advice is to never ask for any sort of privileged status in a channel. It usually shows as a red flag, so don't do it.
16:24 <Cepheid> Meanwhile, in the latter case I just described above..
16:24 <Death> ok
16:24 <Death> thx
16:25 <Cepheid> If you can prove the channel owner hasn't been around long enough, and get enough support regarding taking ownership of the channel, you might have luck talking with a network operator.
16:25 <Cyan_Spark> HDSN is gonna spit on my face when I wake up with a 1.700, I just know it
16:25 * Cyan_Spark grumbles
16:25 <Cepheid> You could try also arguing your case with the original channel owner if they are still around in other channels.
16:26 <Cepheid> But, I wouldn't get your hopes up.
16:26 *** Quits: Cyan_Spark (Cyan_Spark@sparks.only.last.so.long) (Quit: sparks only last so long)
16:26 <Death> ok but im tryna regain my channel
16:27 <RazorSharpFang> Oh. That's a different problem.
16:28 <Cepheid> If you have proof that it's your channel, you may want to bring that to a network operator of some sort. You're better off asking about it all in the #Help channel than here. I legitimately don't know what all is involved, and they'd be better able to help you there.
16:30 * Cepheid sighs, wanders off to take an ativan and some more cymbalta.
16:33 * Death walk up to Cephid, gives a hug and leaves
16:33 *** Parts: Death (Deathagor@Pony-2iuevm.res.rr.com) ()
16:40 <Cepheid> I need to learn to stay out of stuff that doesn't directly involve me.
16:40 <RazorSharpFang> Yeah, sometimes it is better to just keep your head down and stay out of it. I've had one or two bad experiences where it would have been better to just... not know about things.
16:41 <Cepheid> Not that I don't want to know about things.
16:42 <Cepheid> It's more, I just don't want to get involved in discussions about certain things, because reasons.
16:43 <Cepheid> Brain goes down a rabbit hole. Rabbit hole branches. So goes down the left branch. Rabbit hole branches again. Repeat, then as I backtrack out, I *HAVE* to take the other path.
16:43 <RazorSharpFang> So many possibilities.
16:43 <RazorSharpFang> It's like wikipedia links.
16:44 <Cepheid> As a result, the further down I go, the more paths I have to analyze.
16:44 <RazorSharpFang> Depth-first search
16:44 <Cepheid> It'd help a bit if I didn't have to explain every path and problem I see in something.
16:45 <Cepheid> But then, if I choose to ignore what's going on, I get treated as though I'm a part of the problem in the first place.
16:45 <Cepheid> So, no matter what, I am going to get down, either because I put myself in that position, or because my inaction or lack of desire to discuss, do, or act on something causes people to treat me like I'm a problem anyways.
16:46 <RazorSharpFang> That sounds like a "If you're not pro-X you're anti-X" thing.
16:46 <Cepheid> Yeah.
16:46 <Cepheid> Hey, take a guess what's prevelant in North America right now? :D
16:46 <RazorSharpFang> Oh
16:46 <Cepheid> If you're not with BLM, you're against it and a racist.
16:46 <Cepheid> If you're not with antifa, you're a fascist, and an asshole.
16:46 <Cepheid> I am so. Fucking. Tired of it all.
16:46 <RazorSharpFang> Guaranteed support with those strategies.
16:47 <Cepheid> I want to stay out of these things because I either start overthinking it, and crush myself..
16:47 <Cepheid> Or because other people who know me, will use my temper and/or rage for their benefit. Or, my temper and/or rage will flare anyways, and help no one, least the side I am on.
16:48 <Cepheid> And try as I might want to blame others for feeling this way about everything, the reality is, is that it's all me.
16:48 <Cepheid> I'm the one who's supposed to be in control of my temper and rage, so if it flares, that's on me.
16:48 <Cepheid> Not because someone else said or did something I didn't like.
16:48 <Cepheid> I lacked control over it.
16:49 <Cepheid> Oh for- ...
16:50 <Cepheid> I just want to live my life quietly. But I can't, and instead, I think about what's the best way to just deal with the problems, and guess where my brain just loves to go?
16:50 <RazorSharpFang> I don't really have much to add to that. A set of "yeah, but also..." which isn't very helpful either.
16:50 <Cepheid> From where I sit, the cons of putting up with me far outweigh the pros.
16:51 <RazorSharpFang> But that's also not where the people putting up with you are sitting.
16:52 <Cepheid> Doesn't it bother you, when I get angry, pissed off, and start cursing and swearing at you, and insulting you? Doesn't it bother you that, time and time again, it happens? Doesn't it bother you to watch me do it to others?
16:52 <Cepheid> Again.
16:52 <Cepheid> At what point is "enough is enough?"
16:52 <Cepheid> I cannot understand how people like you, ADra, Schism, and a number of other people think, with respect to me.
16:53 <Cepheid> I see the good in me.
16:53 <RazorSharpFang> That's for everyone individually to decide. I will forever maintain that there is nothing anyone can ever do that will make them beyond redemption ever.
16:53 <Cepheid> But then I also see the bad in me.
16:53 <Cepheid> I see the crap I subject people to. The statements I make, the things I do.
16:53 <Cepheid> I am not worth the effort.
16:53 <RazorSharpFang> That's also not for you to decide.
16:53 <Cepheid> There are people who are better than me who better deserve what I get.
16:53 <Cepheid> I am nothing but a nuisance.
16:54 <Cepheid> I am a problem. I constantly break rules around here, and yet, no one bats an eye for long over it.
16:54 <Cepheid> Attempting to blame it on a mental illness I have is an excuse.
16:55 <RazorSharpFang> I firmly believe that every person contains within them that which is beyond value or measure.
16:57 <Cepheid> I don't know what kind of society you live in, but here, everyone has a value. Mine, thus far, balances out into a negative. I have drawn more on the help of others than I have given back, because when I try to give back, I just ruin it, I'm lazy, or people refuse to accept me giving anything back.
16:58 <RazorSharpFang> I believe that everyone has within them that which is of infinite value. I act that out. That's what it means to believe something.
16:59 <Cepheid> Personal justification of others is not a sufficient enough reason for justify continued existence.
16:59 <Cepheid> But, I also can't justify killing myself either. Because that would place further burden upon people anyways.
16:59 <Cepheid> Can't win in either way.
16:59 <Cepheid> I can't help but think and try to analyze every possible outcome of either choice.
16:59 <Cepheid> I can't decide,.
17:00 <Cepheid> The core reason I play video games so much is to avoid this.
17:01 <Cepheid> Focusing on a video game distracts me from thinking. I think only about what's going on in the game, and thus, limit what analysis I do.
17:01 <Cepheid> And, because it's a game, it forces me to make a decision at every step of the way. Especially in games like Monster Hunter. I don't have time to analyze past one or two steps to think about whether or not I should dodge, shield, attack, etc.
17:02 <Cepheid> It forces me to short-circuit my thoughts.
17:02 <Cepheid> Otherwise, if I'm not gaming, I'm thinking. And it doesn't stop.
17:03 <Cepheid> Sometimes, it gets so bad, I get paralyzed.
17:03 <Cepheid> I can't make a decision, because there's nothing forcing me to make one immediately.
17:03 <RazorSharpFang> This probably sounds weird, but have you considered therapy? (Not that I got much success out of it myself, but I'm ignoring that)
17:03 <Cepheid> And so, I sit there, stressing out over what's the best choice, and I cannot add up the values of one or more decisions in such a way as to give one an overwhelmingly positive result.
17:04 <Cepheid> I've considered it. I've been trying to get it.
17:04 <Cepheid> But, I live in a country that doesn't really seem to give a fuck about mental health as much as it proclaims.
17:04 <Cepheid> And, of course..
17:04 <RazorSharpFang> Strange that I hear from people who don't live in Canada that it's a really progressive place, but from what I hear from you it's hardly that at all.
17:05 <Cepheid> We're in a pandemic because of a bunch of idiots who can't be fucking bothered to stay indoors, causing lockdowns and isolation to keep going, causing people to get stressed out and more paranoid, that even *MORE* people need therapy right now, overwhelming an already-crippled system.
17:05 <Cepheid> So getting ahold of a specialist right now is an effort in futility.
17:05 <RazorSharpFang> Really says a lot about our society.
17:07 <Cepheid> Oh, one party declares several billion dollars of funding to Ontario's Mental health system over four years.
17:07 <Cepheid> As the new party, let's do the right thing and fucking draw it out over ten years instead, and cut funding by $330 million, and close loopholes and other stuff that cause all the psychiatrists to just up and close shop and move south to the US.
17:08 <Cepheid> And then have the fucking gall later on to declare that you're putting more funding into mental health, as if you hadn't cut funding to begin with.
17:08 <Cepheid> The amount you fucking put back in doesn't even cover the $330 million YOU FUCKING TOOK OUT/
17:09 <RazorSharpFang> That said, it's 1 AM, it's time I slept.
17:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Calpain: Comic: Family Game / Spectrum Six / Iron and Steel 8 / Canterlot Wedding Leak [ https://tinyurl.com/y5smts35 ]
17:09 <Cepheid> And now, we're in the midst of a pandemic wherein you ARE. FUCKING. LISTENING TO THE EXPERTS. And keep rescinding lockdown orders, only to have to re-enact them because you didn't get the FUCKING MEMO.
17:09 <RazorSharpFang> Hope you feel better soon, maybe play a game or two?
17:09 <Cepheid> I don'
17:09 <Cepheid> I don't have time.
17:10 <Cepheid> I have an assignment due tomorrow evening. I have to write a script for a group presentation for next Wednesday. I have to study for a test on Monday, and next Friday.
17:10 <Cepheid> I have two exams afterwards.
17:10 <RazorSharpFang> What timing.
17:10 <Cepheid> All because I get so worked up, so angry, so depressed, so frustrated.
17:11 <RazorSharpFang> Anyhow, I'm off to sleep. Good night.
17:11 *** Quits: RazorSharpFang (RazorSharpF@Pony-v3k.69d.209.118.IP) (Connection closed)
17:12 <Cepheid> If I had just kept my damned mouth shut, and not commented on anything today..
17:12 <Cepheid> But no, no. I can't allow myself to stay quiet, because that's wrong, somehow.
17:13 <Cepheid> Now all I can think about is how much I want a knife to jam the damned thing into my hand as punishment, or to punch a wall, and so on.
17:14 <Cepheid> 'Course, I wouldn't also be in this predicament had I listened to my gut and stopped attending university, but noooooo~ I had to let myself get convinced that I should keep going, that it's worth it.
17:14 <Cepheid> I'm not seeing the worth.
17:19 <Cepheid> I'm just gonna get comfy here and do nothing until my brain decides to reboot itself.
17:22 * ADragonDreaming gives a hug
17:25 <Cepheid> You know what the best part is about being me? If, for any reason, I exhibit signs of needing to be admitted to a hospital, it's a complete waste of time and effort to do so
17:25 <Cepheid> By the time the hospital even gets to handling me, I look and act like nothing happened at all.
17:26 <Cepheid> It's this little, critical detail, that contributes the most to my desire to self-harm.
17:26 <Cepheid> Unless I like, suddenly burst into rage in front of them and punch the walls repeatedly in anger and frustration, nothing short of a gaping wound somewhere on my body because I stabbed myself or something of the sort, will get their attention.
17:27 <Cepheid> Fucking useless, hospitals, doctors and all.\
17:27 <Cepheid> Can show up at a hospital five times over the year, for psychological reasons, all of them involving police getting involved, and that's not a red flag?
17:28 <Cepheid> Nah, that's just friday.
17:28 <Cepheid> I could have a psychological profile several feet thick, and these idiots won't do a damned thing for me.
17:29 <Cepheid> I could literally show them video footage of me losing my mind, and they would still think it's nothing.
17:29 <Cepheid> Imagine losing your mind so badly, that you warn security over and over, that you are a danger to yourself, and that you should be cuffed for your own safety..
17:29 <Cepheid> And then when you do finally lose your shit, start venting on a wall, giving security clear and obvious evidence, and their reaction?
17:29 <Cepheid> "Don't threaten us."
17:29 <Cepheid> I.. I fucking told you.
17:29 <Cepheid> That this was going to happen.
17:30 <Cepheid> You fucking ignored me. It's not my fault you can't comprehend basic English.
17:30 <Cepheid> I am going to threaten you because YOU FUCKED UP.
17:30 <Cepheid> I want help.
17:30 <Cepheid> But I can't geti.
17:30 <Cepheid> I can't get it.
17:30 <Cepheid> Unless I show up with a gods damned gaping, bleeding, infected wound, hospitals won't take anything I say seriously, nor will doctors.
17:31 <Cepheid> And even then, because of the damned pandemic, they will probably err on the side of caution, give me a round of antibiotics, a bandaid, and send me on my way/.
17:31 <Cepheid> This world fucked up.
17:32 <Cepheid> It chose to ignore a growing problem in favor of another one, which it then also ignored, and overall, everything is getting worse.
17:34 <Cepheid> Oh my gods.
17:35 <Cepheid> My mind is spewing out these deranged and stupid ideas.
17:35 <Cepheid> Like going to the hospital, asking for help, and when they decide to take their sweet ass time, I assault someone to make a point.
17:35 <Cepheid> At least, either way, I'd be contained in some manner, so..
17:38 *** Joins: Pony|8489 (Pony8489@Pony-taj8dp.cable.virginm.net)
17:38 <Finwe> Lt Pony|8489.
17:38 <Finwe> o7
17:38 * Pony|8489 wave.
17:41 <Cepheid> I want to go to the hospital, but I don't know how to go about doing it. Any attempt will involve dealing with my parents, whom, right now, I really don't want to deal with because they'll do the next worst thing and try to calm me down themselves, or be gigantic fucking dicks who don't want to "deal with this right now."
17:42 <Cepheid> I don't have any money to take the bus.
17:42 <Cepheid> And there's no way a service like 911 would send an ambulance to come get me.
17:42 <Cepheid> I just have apparent degenerating mental health, I'm fine.
17:42 <Cepheid> Not enough of a reason to call someone to go get me.
17:46 <Cepheid> I can't contain this anymore. It's getting too hard.
17:46 <Cepheid> I just want to yell, rage, rant, scream, curse and swear, blame everyone and anyone.
17:48 <Cepheid> Going to the hospital won't do any good.
17:49 <Cepheid> By the time I even get there at this point, I'll be perfectly normal-looking. A bit wear for worse, but otherwise looking like nothing happened to me at all.
17:49 <Cepheid> And it'll just be the same treatment all over again.
17:49 <Cepheid> I get looked at like I'm lying through my teeth. No one takes me seriously. No one bothers to think "Maybe we should observe this person for a while and see what's going on."
17:50 <Cepheid> The only way I'd ever get anyone to listen to me is if I had a meltdown in front of them, and I bet even then they'd just argue that I'm screaming for attention and that it's not really a concern.
17:51 <Cepheid> It's no wonder people always go "Oh, we never saw any of the signs that this person would ever do such a thing." Well, yes. You ignore them, that's why.
17:51 <Cepheid> You're trained nurses, doctors, and your education includes looking for signs of distress, but you choose to ignore them for some damned reason.
17:51 <Cepheid> Or, perhaps you just don't see them because not all signs of distress come through the same way.
17:52 <Cepheid> Or, perhaps because you've never experienced the symptoms yourself, and you have no idea what it's like, or how it progresses. How it can possibly end in a calm that makes the person look like everything's fine.
17:52 <Cepheid> It's only when we get drastic does anyone ever actually give a fuck or notice.
17:53 <Cepheid> Which probably also explains why they don't take the signs seriously, because if it doesn't end in something drastic, then clearly it's not real or it's not as bad as you think.
17:54 <Cepheid> And, by the point you do something drastic, well...
17:54 <Cepheid> You're basically a criminal at that point.
17:54 <Cepheid> Since assaulting someone is a crime. Stabbing yourself or cutting in lethal ways is, well, usually lethal.
17:55 <Cepheid> It isn't until it's too late that people give a damn.
17:55 <Cepheid> "Oh, how could we have prevented this?" Oh, well, I know.
17:55 <Cepheid> Maybe if you actually took people seriously when they say they're having suicidal thoughts, even if they aren't acting on it. Maybe if you listened when people uttered threats of violence.
17:56 <Cepheid> But no, no, that's too hard.
17:56 <Cepheid> Too much of an inconvenience upon you.
17:56 <Cepheid> It adds more work to your day. More effort is required.
17:56 <Cepheid> Why would anyone want that?
17:56 <Cepheid> People who say they care are the worst people in the world, because they don't actually care. It's the worst lie ever told.
17:57 <Cepheid> If you actually gave a fuck, you'd have listened, but you didn't, and here we are, with me losing my mind, doing something drastic, because no one thought to take me seriously
17:57 <Cepheid> That's how this world looks to me.
17:58 <Cepheid> My life is, unfortunately, not going to end by natural causes. As long as this problem continues to build, layer upon layer, without proper treatment, observation, or awareness, sooner or later I'm going to break. And break really bad.
17:58 <Cepheid> And it's going to get me killed.
17:58 <Cepheid> And then everyone will be left wondering what the hell went wrong? What did they miss?
17:59 <Cepheid> As it is, my brain's already starting to calm down, so yeah, it's kind of a waste now. Hospital won't see anything.
18:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Makenshi: Friendship Music: char - chill beats to dustcar to [Friendship Hop] [ https://tinyurl.com/y2bmpuzc ]
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19:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Ali Ali
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19:39 * Schism flumps in. "Oh, yeesh... are you feeling any better?" She offers a hug.
20:08 * Schism also sighs, and makes up some coffee.
20:21 <Finwe> Mlles Ali and Schism.
20:21 * Finwe doffs his hat, does not sigh and mixes a glass of elderflower cordial.
20:21 * Ali wavies and flops
20:22 <Finwe> I was not aware that unicorns were capable of floating point operations.
20:23 <Finwe> Mayhap this is only true for cute unicorns.
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20:28 <PinkieShy> hihi
20:28 <PinkieShy> I feel derpy today :P
20:39 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Drawfriend Stuff (Pony Art Gallery) #3539 [ https://tinyurl.com/y2njmoq4 ]
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22:01 * Dappled intended to go to sleep early so he could wake up early, just ended up sleeping longer.
22:09 <DerpyBot> New post on Equestria Daily by Sethisto: Pony Plushie Compilation #444 [ https://tinyurl.com/yyufztfc ]
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23:08 * Dappled does horribly dangerous things before work. Like petting kitty bellies.
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23:12 <Dappled> https://i.redd.it/uduhf2z951361.jpg Safi
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23:49 <ADragonDreaming> !log
23:49 <Unixkitty> https://unixkitty.com/logs/EquestriaDaily/latest.log.html
23:50 <ADragonDreaming> That is far too cute a creature for Safi'jiva. Granted I haven't fought Safi yet, but point stands.
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